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Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
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   Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
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   Author  Topic: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops  (Read 6837 times)
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #180 on: Mar 5th, 2011, 8:19pm »
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hi all,
 
pockets:  to your usual standard...outstanding!  what can i say that hasn't been said...WOW!  and that's the comment that i'm getting from the model t guys that drift through here.  i'm hoping to solve a technical problem on their threads to further update those who don't or can't find their way here.  
 
to all:  if you've never had the opportunity to work with a class 'A' fellow like pockets, you're really missing out on great conversations, shared experiences, and a wonderful time spent in the shop.  bruce t was the first person that i heard use the phase 'shop rat' when describing people who love to build stuff.  i must tell you, that it was an epiphany to realize the we (pockets and i) belonged to more than one segment of this hobby...for me, it was like coming out of the darkness into the light AND THERE WERE PEOPLE THERE!  that is the philosophy of the bcrr, of the jax steam team, of georgia's cbq team all the way up to michigan.  while i won't put words in pockets' mouth, i know that pete b, scott l and their respective teams have set the bar for what is to come for the future of clam lake and the moose meadows management teams.  know this about my shop rat buddy pockets, he keeps it real, keeps it honest, and expects more from himself than you could possibly imagine.
 
while i've been doing 'global' research on the model t's, he's been looking at the processes it took to build them.  that, my friend, is dedication to the model.  i can't thank him enough...just wish michigan were a lot closer!  
 
here's the model step brackets, they still need some work but...
 

 
now...look at some of the real ones...i'd say pockets has nailed it!  what do you think?
 

 

 
...and note that not everything in the photos above is original to the model t's.  henry may have made them, but the owners modified them to suit their needs.
 
daumn!!!  t'fever is catchin'!  more parts are a comin'!
 
moose


« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2011, 9:33am by moose_the_caboose » Logged

moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #181 on: Mar 5th, 2011, 8:41pm »
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hi all,
 
something else you should know....how fast will MM#5 go?  well, that question was asked of me by pockets on several occaisions.  how to figure speed with a motor and drive train setup?
 
well...i wrote a calculation spreadsheet that suited our needs, here's a look.
 

 
there are probably more eloquent ways of doing it, but this one works for MM#5's purposes.  the drive ratios as shown put MM#5's speed in the range i want it to be.  given drive-space limitations, sprocket diameters and motor-shaft rpm of 90 were part of the constraints.  our target for final wheel rotation speed?  300 rpm, anything above 255 rpm was considered acceptable.  why?  having enough speed keeps you out of the way of others, but too much speed can also cause problems when people operate this piece of equipment without realizing the damage they could cause.
 
sorry, no pictures of the drive system-to-be, that will come later.
 
enjoy!
 
moose


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pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #182 on: Mar 5th, 2011, 11:40pm »
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George,
I thank you, with all the grace and humility that a redneck iron monger can muster. That's some pretty tall praise to live up to.
 
It's interesting, to me, that a model frequently must be built to a higher standard than the prototype, just to be acceptable. Henry Ford's Model T was intended to be an inexpensive automobile. This precluded a lot of second operation and hand finishing that Stutz and the other high end vehicles recieved. An example would be these running board brackets. The prototype stampings have wrinkles and stretch marks from the stamping process. When my pieces came off the hammer form, they had very similar deformations. Where ol' Hank could get away with just leaving them, we can't get away with that in a model. They just aren't "scale"! So, the tweaking begins... Tap down a high spot, shrink a low spot back up, file, file and file some more. Sometimes knowing when to quit can be as important as knowing how to perform the process. IMHO, you can over build. By that I mean you remove the texture that bespeaks realism. Will MM#5 be perfect? Hell no, far from it. But, in it's imperfection, I hope, will lie it's realism.
 
Thank you, again,
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #183 on: Mar 6th, 2011, 5:27pm »
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Here's a little better shot, minus clamps, with a scale included. There is still some triming and tweeking (every time I handle a part it gets some massaging) but the intended direction is obvious.
 
 

 
It should also be obvious that those fasteners are hex head machine screws and not rivets, as ol' Hank would have done. Well, as a concession to the fact that this will be an operating model in a sometimes hostile environment, I will not be using rivets. To some, this may be sacrilege, but let me explain... Fact of life:This critter will be damaged. To facilitate repair, those fasteners, and all representing rivets, will be replaced with 4-40 round head machine screws. The slots wil be filled and, when painted, will appear as rivets. Sime sub-assemblies will be silver brazed, for strength, as well.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #184 on: Mar 7th, 2011, 6:13pm »
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hi all,
 
pockets:  more hardware on its way!   btw...wanted to tease your model t 'critter' with a couple of images from the net.  while they may be a closer match(not much) to my MM#5 in gauge, it just goes to show what determined mechanics can do when push comes to shove.
 

 

 
to all:  i think a lot of people are scared of the size of 'grand scale' hobby gauge equipment.  don't know if it is the thought of excessive weight or sheer size  while the exact weight of MM#5 won't be known for some time to come, it will weight less that the average diseasil.  big and over-sized doesn't always equal greater mass.  as pockets likes to say, air weighs the same inside the 'box' as it does outside.  the design criteria for MM#5 is to be as close to being a scale model as skills and funding allow and to be the reliable operating vehicle required by a very demanding hobby.  to that end, the laboring over steel-mashing continues.  believe me, i can't wait to see pockets' efforts in person!
 
moose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #185 on: Mar 7th, 2011, 9:10pm »
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   Greg,
 
   I am so sorry for not responding much sooner to the latest accomplishments from your shop. Of course, our conversations can't make up for the pictures of all this handywork. Since I once owned a stock 1931 Model "A" 1/4 ton pick up, I really appreciate what your doing in scale.


« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2011, 6:27am by ErieAtlantic7597 » Logged
pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #186 on: Mar 7th, 2011, 10:38pm »
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Yeah, Moosey, they are similar.... They have flanged wheels and the same radiator shell!  
 
Bruce, thanks for the kind words. From you, it means a lot.
 
Sometimes ya needs a little motivation, so ya stick the parts together to see where you've been. Here's some shots.
 

 

 

 

 
Thanks for lookin',
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #187 on: Mar 14th, 2011, 11:30am »
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Sometimes things just work out...Building the radiator promised to be a significant PITA and finding a place for the bell was also a bit of a head scratcher.  
 

 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
dgmarklin
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #188 on: Mar 14th, 2011, 5:14pm »
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The #5 is really coming along nice!  Keep up the pictures, they're a great distraction from studying.  
 
Those are mighty fine sideboard brackets!
 
Dean


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Dean
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #189 on: Mar 14th, 2011, 8:00pm »
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hey waitta minute...i resemble that bell!!!

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pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #190 on: Mar 14th, 2011, 8:38pm »
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Dean, thanks for looking and for the kind words. BTW, I remember my college days... As much as I love trains, coeds were, hands down, a much bigger distraction!  
 
George,
You shouldn't say such things too loudly. Some of us have seen recent photos   !!! BTW, Moosey, I found a piece of 1/4" stock to finish your front truck side frames.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #191 on: Mar 19th, 2011, 10:00am »
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hi all,
 
lotsa stuff going on in the background for mm#5...be patient!  parts are always being researched, mulled over, and built.  mm#5 is a very special model to me, not only because my buddy, pockets, is building it, but also because I...ME...get to see how the backstory develops.  if you go so far as to think of models like the mm#5 as a rolling story running down the tracks in real time, like any good movie or book or piece of art it will hold your attention.  what makes it that good is what puzzles you and causes you to pause and wonder.  the question?  how did the model get that particular 'look'?  why were certain pieces of 'kit', part of the build....why?  how??  these are questions that pockets and i struggle with...puzzle over...and finally, push hard figure out the process (pockets, more than i).
 
sometimes, the final arbitor in our discussions turns out to be...what did the clam lake shop master mechanic have to work with?
 
i hope that you are enjoying our collaboration and pockets' wide-ranging skills.  watching him push and pull metal to his will has been eye-openning for me.  i can't thank him enough for his time, patience, skills, and friendship.
 
i also hope, that if you are watching this thread...and learning, that you understand that YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS!  if you are watching this thread because you own and are keen about ford model t's, that you understand that your comments are not only welcomed, but appreciated!  this model, mm#5 will also tour some model t meets as a condition of a friend of mine for being able to crawl through his personal collection.
 
pockets knows i'll be 'out-of-pocket' for a  few days.
 
'til i return...
 
moose
 
 
 


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pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #192 on: Mar 25th, 2011, 7:26pm »
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Just a brief note to let y'all know that we're still plugging away. There's a UPS driver, with bilateral ruptures and a herniated disc, now, because the cast iron and A36 steel arrived. This will allow me to move forward on #5s underpinnings.  
 
I lopped off two 3-3/8" long pieces of the 2-1/2" square steel and squared them up on the mill. Just rough prep work, nothing photogenic.The process gets rid of the hot rolled scale and allows for some semi-accurate layout work. These will be #5's  rear journal boxes.
 
The cast iron will become the front journal boxes and the "brasses" for the rears.
 
Probably be some pics, next time....
 
Thanks for lookin',
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #193 on: Mar 26th, 2011, 6:42pm »
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hi all,
 
back in town!  had a nice time on our cruise...sorry that i had to leave the ship?!!!
 
anywho, just trying to keep up with pockets' work!  metals in the shop...delightful!
 
btw, a small handful of birthday presents are on their way to the clam lake shops for the other critter that will rise from the build floor in due time!  wish it could be more in this package, but keep an eye out for 'brown' once in a while.


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #194 on: Mar 30th, 2011, 7:01am »
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   Guys,
 
   Sorry that I don't jump  in here that much. But I sure am not the model builder that pockets and moose are. That being said, it sure is fun watching this project take shape, step by step.
 
   Greg, that is sure going to be one neat large SCALE vehicle.


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pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #195 on: Mar 30th, 2011, 8:36pm »
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Hi, Bruce. It's good to hear a friendly voice.
 
George says that a large contingent of the Model T gang pass this way. It sure would be nice if they'd speak up and let me know where I'm goofin' up!
 
Well, back to the salt mine. I've got several parts half started and some half finished and I'm only half fast  
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #196 on: Apr 10th, 2011, 8:51am »
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hi all,
 
it may seem that nothing is happening, but like everything else, you've got to do one thing before you can do another.  since mm#5 will be as close being scale model as we...really....make that pockets, can make it, even the little bits like the firewall-to-frame rail brackets have to be made.  it takes time.  while pockets has 99% of all the hard fabrication, i get to try my hand at a couple 'fiddley' bits, like a radiator cap. lol!  
 
in the last 6 months, we started a renewed push within the model t community and have received aid from numerous sources.  our thanks go out to 'gator' and good wife paula g. from alabama, 'hap' t. from south carolina, jim h. from tampa, jay from indiana and bob from washington(bob works on a model t railcar).  hmm, seems mm#5 will have to do an extensive tour to thank all these folks!  


« Last Edit: Apr 12th, 2011, 4:46pm by moose_the_caboose » Logged

pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #197 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 9:09pm »
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Unfortunately some sources have requested anonymity and I can't remember whichis who. Thanks to Ol' Moosey's new friends in the Model T gang, some badly needed firewall/dash data has arrived and work can move forward in that area.
 
Moosey, I'll rrely on you to show our gratitude. This stuff is golden.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
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Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #198 on: May 13th, 2011, 7:06pm »
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Hokay, where was I....? Oh, yeah, journal boxes. Specifically the hind ones.  
 
No photos of squaring up the blocks, but that's not all that interresting. I'll throw in a couple of action shots, 'cause Moosey thinks they are KEWEL.
 

 


« Last Edit: May 13th, 2011, 7:10pm by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
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Posts: 1224
Re: Moose Meadows #5, from the Clam Lake Shops
 
« Reply #199 on: May 13th, 2011, 7:15pm »
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Sometimes the gods will smile and you actually hit the number!
 

 
Yup, that's an 1-1/2" hole in a piece of LARGE (for a model) A36 steel.
 


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
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