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Electric Loco Land!
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   Electric Loco Land!
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   Author  Topic: Electric Loco Land!  (Read 4231 times)
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #20 on: Apr 8th, 2007, 4:16pm »
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hi all,
 
dg:  in the overall scheme of things, common sense says that the weight be distributed equally over both trucks.  it also stands that the weight be as close to or below the frame rails as possible.  a lower center of gravity rather than a high one.  if you build the weight into the unit, your initial performance will suffer due to the planning/process that you are building it to.  correct me if i'm wrong, but your 500 watt motor equates to just about or under 1 hp.  for best performance, you should be shooting for a 300 - 325 lb vehicle weight.  plan for best rpm at 2700 under full load to figure top speed.  you've already been through this drill of figuring circumference of your wheels to cover the feet per second of your planned top speed.  the rpm difference will let you figure the gear ratios.
 
one other item, make sure your motor controller is heat-sinked!  several years ago, i found out on the hottest day of the summer just how the over-temp controller cut-off work...well!  my current heat-sink (1/4" plate copper & 3/4" plate aluminum works quite well.  don't count on 3/16" plate steel welded to your frame-rail to be very efficient....add more!  no more over-temp.
 
moose the caboose


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joneau261
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
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« Reply #21 on: Apr 8th, 2007, 6:54pm »
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Two of Chesapeake & Alleghany Live Steamers most trusty engines are the Electrics 102 and 103. They're always used, and always ready to run.
 
Videos: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22Jonathan+Eau+Claire%22+%2BCALS+Electric&so=0&num=100


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« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2007, 6:58pm by joneau261 » Logged

"Railfans are clingy, complaining dumbsnots who will never ever be grateful for any concession you provide. The moment you shut out their shrill tremulous complaints, the happier you'll be for it.
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dgmarklin
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #22 on: Apr 9th, 2007, 4:12pm »
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Thanks for the reply's.  
 
M:  It has a heat sink but I will sure take your suggestion to add one and to change to the 2700 RPM gearing ratio's.  I am looking at about 250 lbs with batteries and such and will have to add some more weight into the frame somehow.  
 
J:  I saw that vid, those are nice engines, they got a strong group of live steamers up there on the track, and someone who can sure build a electric!  Very Nice!
 
All:  I have been glueing my shell lately, WOW!, its really coming together.  My motor is on back order right now though.  I plan on up loadings some pictures once I unpack my camera from the trip to Ft. Myers for easter.  
 
I want just a few pics/ideas/information hints (moose your good at that) on the controls.  My fist plan was to mount all the switches, throttle, reverser, etc; on the back of the engine recessed.  But I thought maybe about to have a controller unit wired to the engine so the controllers are on the car behind it right at your finger tips.  I am just wondering/ worring about the wiring and wearing the wires from moving it around so much.  Any Idea(r)s?  I can build the box for the controls, but just need some pictures/ hints of them so I can plan it out to look nice and where things go the easiest!  
 
Thanks guys, couldnt have done it with out the brains of live steamers!


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Dean
ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #23 on: Apr 9th, 2007, 4:21pm »
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   Dean,
 
   I can't remember if you saw the "electric diesels" running at the BCRR. They are built by dunkin Herring. He has a hand held controlers on all of his units. He does'nt seem to have any problems with that arrangement. Plus they also m.u. in any directional configureation. So they have m.u. cables to boot.  
 
   You might want to give him a holler and pick his brain. He is very easy to talk to, no bull crap kind of person, BTW.
 
   Hope to see you soon,
 
   Bruce


« Last Edit: Apr 9th, 2007, 4:25pm by ErieAtlantic7597 » Logged
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #24 on: Apr 9th, 2007, 7:22pm »
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hi jonathan,
 
those are some great lookin' locos!  they also appear to be a hard working pair as well.  someone put in a lot of planning and effort into building them. nice to see other projects that run well and look good!  please relay our compliments to the owner/builder!
 
moose the caboose
 
on Apr 8th, 2007, 6:54pm, joneau261 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Two of Chesapeake & Alleghany Live Steamers most trusty engines are the Electrics 102 and 103. They're always used, and always ready to run.
 
Videos: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22Jonathan+Eau+Claire%22+%2BCALS+Electric&so=0&num=100



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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #25 on: Apr 9th, 2007, 8:16pm »
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hi dg!
 
bruce is right about talking to duncan...he can best give you some ideas about how to squeeze all the control systems into a hand-held package that is easy to use.  
 
what are some of the things that i would advise you to do?
 
1.  use quality components!  no cheap wire, connectors, or contacts!  go for military spec stuff if possible.  yes, there is a surplus supplier within a 3 hour drive of you.  email offlist and i'll give you the name/location if you'd like.  
 
2.  keep all voltages flowing to/from your hand-held controller to 5 vdc or less.  make sure that your throttle control ohms (i use curtis instruments controllers - they are generally 300 to 5k ohms for 0 to full throttle, but be careful, some want to see 5k to 300 ohms for 0 to full throttle!) are seen as less than 300 ohms (300 - 0 is generally considered as 'off').  test, test, test before you connect the drive system!  a test rig for you would be easy...for 24vdc, use 2 12vdc rv screw-base lamps in series in place of your motor.  as you crank the throttle, they should glow brighter.  more about fine-tuning your throttle, later.
 
if something happens to your throttle, there has to be an emergency 'kill' function that comes into play.  most controllers have an 'arming' function, make sure you use it!  don't create an always armed situation.  there are at least 2 ways to have emergency control.  the first is to remove the 'arming' voltage and the second is to have a '0' ohm reading on your throttle.  some of the others on this list can give you ideas for other ways to effect an emergency 'kill' feature, but the proceeding are my favorites.  you will also want a master battery switch to kill all power (marine master switches are great for this).  if you use 5 vdc for control voltage for relays, make sure they are fused as well.
 
3.  no matter how many circuits you think you'll need on your hand-held controller, you'll always want more.  buy a mil-spec main connector capable of 26 individual connectors.  it should also be capable of handling multi-strand copper wire.  single conductor wire breaks too easily.  most mil-spec connectors have built-in strain relief, so that answers your question about wire damage from movement.
 
i suppose, that's enough for now.  do contact duncan, he's a great guy and can give you some valuable insights into electric loco design.  his stuff rocks!
 
moose the caboose
 
on Apr 9th, 2007, 4:12pm, dgmarklin wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Thanks for the reply's.  
 
M:  It has a heat sink but I will sure take your suggestion to add one and to change to the 2700 RPM gearing ratio's.  I am looking at about 250 lbs with batteries and such and will have to add some more weight into the frame somehow.  
 
J:  I saw that vid, those are nice engines, they got a strong group of live steamers up there on the track, and someone who can sure build a electric!  Very Nice!
 
All:  I have been glueing my shell lately, WOW!, its really coming together.  My motor is on back order right now though.  I plan on up loadings some pictures once I unpack my camera from the trip to Ft. Myers for easter.  
 
I want just a few pics/ideas/information hints (moose your good at that) on the controls.  My fist plan was to mount all the switches, throttle, reverser, etc; on the back of the engine recessed.  But I thought maybe about to have a controller unit wired to the engine so the controllers are on the car behind it right at your finger tips.  I am just wondering/ worring about the wiring and wearing the wires from moving it around so much.  Any Idea(r)s?  I can build the box for the controls, but just need some pictures/ hints of them so I can plan it out to look nice and where things go the easiest!  
 
Thanks guys, couldnt have done it with out the brains of live steamers!



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joneau261
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #26 on: Apr 9th, 2007, 9:19pm »
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They are two great engines. They were scratch built in 1978, and now owned by CALS, after the original owner moved.
 
And indeed, they are the true workhorses of CALS, always ready to run whenever they're needed
 
http://calslivesteam.org/electric.htm


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"Railfans are clingy, complaining dumbsnots who will never ever be grateful for any concession you provide. The moment you shut out their shrill tremulous complaints, the happier you'll be for it.
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dgmarklin
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Posts: 350
Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #27 on: Apr 11th, 2007, 4:54pm »
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UPDATE:
 
I have "loaded" up the engine for a trip to school tomarrow for some more glueing the shell and fiberglass work.  Its really looking like a GE 44, well, a wooden GE 44.  The fiberglass will make it look like metal after a coat of paint.  Shouldn't be long till I find my camera and post a picture, (I am a little slow at unpacking sometimes)
 
 
Thats all for the Update...
Dean Gordon


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Dean
dgmarklin
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #28 on: Apr 13th, 2007, 9:08pm »
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UPDATE:
 
The reactions to the engine at school were amazing!  I got compliments from the Tech teachers, drafting teacher, wood shop teacher and metal teacher.  They all were very interested.  Even the students were asking questions.  
 
Today, my motor arrived from back order 4 days eariler, WOO HOO!  Although, the website said its a 3000RPM and its only a 2500 RPM so I am having to re-think the gearing.  O Well....
 
With the wooden shell almost complete, fiberglass should start next week or the week after.  
 
The hand held controller(CEW2007, V 1.0.1.2) , is coming together nicely as well, it will, hopefully, if possible entered into the Technology Students Association State Compettion next weekend.  
 
All is well on the Manatee River, for now,  
Dean  
 
 
P.S.-  The CEW is for the initials of one of about four kids helping me at school build this thing, I gave him the job of drawing the control box all out, so its only fair his name is on it somewhere i guess.


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Dean
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #29 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 3:41pm »
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hi dg,
 
that's great news!  keep us posted, and by-the-way, don't rush the project!  you're enticing a new generation of folks to become interested in 'hernia' gauge railroading and teaching some of the basic principles of engineering.   remember the old tv set company saying, "the quality goes in before the name goes on!"  build robustly so that their work is a guaranteed success and not a fizzle.  success drives confidence to learn more about sound engineering practices.  the occaisional failure teaches why you stick to good practice.
 
keep posting!
 
moose the caboose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #30 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 3:53pm »
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   Holy mackeral, Dean, you are really moveing along. It sure is nice when others, not in the hobby, appreciate you work. Good for you.  
 
   Like George said though, take your time. don't rush. As the old German machineist once said, " Haste makes garbage". In other words, we all throw stuff away that we make in a hurry.
 
   When do we see your creation at the BCRR ??  
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce


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dgmarklin
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #31 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 9:49pm »
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I ain't rushing, I think, I hope, I am pretty sure.
 
Trust Me, Trombone Players know how to rush beats and things.  
 
Its a little step by step, do this first and then this, buy this, wait for it, wait for back order, its here, install it; repeat.
 
But, all in all, the hoods and cab is looking good, got a horn made today on the lathe.
 
Tomorrow: Glue the hoods to floors, cut another exhast, glue the side floor boards on.


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Dean
B+MNW21201
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #32 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 10:01pm »
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WE WANT PICTURES!!!!
 
please.


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dgmarklin
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
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« Reply #33 on: Apr 17th, 2007, 6:20pm »
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WELL OK OK OK...  GEEZ, LIVE STEAMERS THESE DAYS, lol
 
 
I got alot of work to do, doors will go on after fiberglass since they open and close, windows still need to be put in.
 
BTW, Question,   Whats the part on the drive shaft that lets it slide back on forth called?  I need to find out to order it.  Thanks
 
 
What do you think?
 
Dean


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Dean
dgmarklin
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
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« Reply #34 on: Apr 17th, 2007, 6:23pm »
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Another View.  This time the front.  A LED Headlight goes inside that circle

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Dean
pockets
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #35 on: Apr 17th, 2007, 7:12pm »
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Awsome, Dean. That's looking really nice. Having glassed a few boats, I can tell you that there is a period of unfun ahead. Get through that and the world (The 7-1/2" one) is your oyster.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #36 on: Apr 17th, 2007, 8:02pm »
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hi dg,
 
lookin' good!
 
there are several ways to do what you want.  the most common way is to use small universal joints and a splined propeller shaft(think of rear drives autos).  it has its' uses, but be careful of extreme amounts of shaft travel, they have a tendency to uncouple during 'hard over'....ah hmm...manuevers.  helpful hint:  washing machines used to have part or whole splined shafts.  bruce would be a better conduit for info about this system if you choose to look into this method.  it works well with tol-o-matics.
 
moose the tired
 
on Apr 17th, 2007, 6:20pm, dgmarklin wrote:       (Click here for original message)
WELL OK OK OK...  GEEZ, LIVE STEAMERS THESE DAYS, lol
 
 
I got alot of work to do, doors will go on after fiberglass since they open and close, windows still need to be put in.
 
BTW, Question,   Whats the part on the drive shaft that lets it slide back on forth called?  I need to find out to order it.  Thanks
 
 
What do you think?
 
Dean



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livesteamsteve
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #37 on: Apr 17th, 2007, 11:18pm »
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The 44 tonner looks good Dean.  From what I've been reading, it looks like you are building a sturdy puller.  It might just even pull more than the prototypes :-P.  I remember an old Pennsy guy telling me that when they got the 44 tonners to switch Delaware Ave. in Philly to replace the Pennsy A-5 0-4-0 steamers, it took two or sometimes 3 44 tonners to do the work of what one little chunky A5 steamer could pull.  Just a little 44 tonner trivia.  Good luck in your construction.
 
Steve


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Got Steam!!!
ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #38 on: Apr 18th, 2007, 10:39am »
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   Dean,
 
   Your so right about the sliding joint on the drive shafts. Similar to whats in autombiles for the last sixty years that I know of. I usd a splined shaft and matching socket from a General Electric washer. It is still on the drive shaft of my Goose since 1992. And has given no problems. The universals that I used were purchased from a local bearing supplier right here in Ft. Myers. And they are the originals also. BTW, I ran the Goose hard for five years, then more sporaticly for the rest of the time so the equipment that I refer to has stood up well. Thats fifteen years of running with the same drive line components.
   Let me know if your going to visit the BCRR any time soon. I'll be more than happy to bring the Goose over so you can take a peek at the drive system. That way you can see for yourself what the heck I put together for a drive shaft system.
   Man, the body looks GREAT on your 44 tonner. That is going to be one heck a neat engine.  
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce


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B+MNW21201
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Re: Electric Loco Land!
 
« Reply #39 on: Apr 18th, 2007, 1:28pm »
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Dean, those photo's were well worth waiting for. Nice workmanship. I think that it will look great in Boston & Maine black with the Red and White stripes! Oh well, I guess not.

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