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Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Author  Topic: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose  (Read 29041 times)
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #960 on: May 20th, 2010, 6:56pm »
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hi all,
 
i've been back out in the shop working on the details for alex's lamp-housings.  i wanted to show the progression of what i was doing, but a family member sortta 'lost' the camera at a friends house...until they found out what it would cost to replace.  well, the camera re-appeared last night...hmm.
 
anywho, here's a look at the unfinished housings with details installed.  i still have a lot of finish-work to do.  when i'm finished, the primer should be smooth enough to hide the wood grain, but rough enough to hold a color coat.  some more wet sanding in my future...
 

 
and to illustrate an answer to pockets' question of what the brass box was for...
 

 
the photo above shows the basic concept of how the lamp fits the base.  what i haven't built yet is the reflector support bracket.  while the bases isn't ready yet, i need to get them into position so the under-roof interior work can begin.  the wiring should go quickly into a small battery/switch box.
 
enjoy,
 
moose-the-sleepy


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #961 on: May 20th, 2010, 7:25pm »
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Nice looking stuff, George, as usual.
 
I believe that I've mentioned this before, somewhere, but a perusal of the kitchen ware section of the llocal big box will reveal a plethora of hemispherical / parabolic, mirror finished, stainless steel utensils that can be adapted for reflector duty. I'm using a salad bowl in 3-3/4" scale.... Measuring spoons, serving spoons and ladles might suffice for smaller scales.
 
Greg B.


« Last Edit: May 20th, 2010, 7:28pm by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #962 on: May 22nd, 2010, 11:37am »
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hi all,
 
pockets:  well said!  may i add something you told me years ago?  "When you look at an object, don't look for what it is, look for what it wants to be."   that's become part of my modeling philosophy and still drives a lot of what i do.
 
to all:  if you still aren't ready for spin-forming or hammer-forming, then pockets' advice should become part of your planning process for your next model.
 
on May 20th, 2010, 7:25pm, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Nice looking stuff, George, as usual.
 
I believe that I've mentioned this before, somewhere, but a perusal of the kitchen ware section of the llocal big box will reveal a plethora of hemispherical / parabolic, mirror finished, stainless steel utensils that can be adapted for reflector duty. I'm using a salad bowl in 3-3/4" scale.... Measuring spoons, serving spoons and ladles might suffice for smaller scales.
 
Greg B.

 
so what's be done in the shop the last couple of days?  well...glad you asked!
 

 
what's different about the photo above compared to couple of the pthers that i've posted?  the outer brass bevel has been fitted.  i'm okay with how the outside looks, but i've alot of smoothing and compressing to do before the inside looks decent.  the easy part is done, now i have to make the hammer tools to finish it.
 
in the photo below, you can now visualize how the lamp will fit inside the lamp-housing.  and btw, before i forget, i wanted rubber grips for the  handles on the access doors.  using the pockets' sage advice, i found some shrink-wrap tubing that i normally use doing electrical work, but by using a minimum of three applications (heating between layers), it comes out looking like rubber.  when finished, it will be painted in satin black.
 

 
from the very beginning, i made a promise to myself and to you to show my work, warts and all.  i'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but having seen the back-biting, moaning, and groaning by others in the hobby, i'm happiest posting my work here.  there are some true craftsmen posting on other boards, but there are just as many sharks who are more than willing chew up a builders' work with useless and spiteful criticism.  thank you for your patience, guidance and most of all, friendship!  
 
back to the shop, the yard work, the bathroom reno, and a hot saturday afternoon!
 
moose


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Steam290
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  assembly-scaled_1_6_-_ver_24_Model_1_825x642.jpg - 35060 Bytes
« Reply #963 on: Jun 2nd, 2010, 9:53pm »
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Hey Moose, or anyone out there,
 
There was mention of the MCC express and caboose truck. Can anyone tell me what kind of clearance they have between the pedestals and the journal boxes in both across track and in line with track. In other words, if you are looking down, in the X and Y directions? Hate to go buy a set just for research.
 
Been working on my beloved Burlington # 7 truck design and couldn't come up with a drawing for the journal box. So I am melding, or is that welding, from car builder's cyclopedia drawings and what drawings I do have of the # 7 truck.
 
I have several of the wood components dimensioned and have started on a wood prototype. I am investigating commercial and home casting for the obviously cast parts. Anyone in the Atlanta area doing casting?
 
As I progress pictures will be forthcoming. I am still working on trying to resaw crooked lumber without a jointer, planer, or bandsaw.  
 
Here's a picture of my 3d design. Welcome to my madness.
 
Dale


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/assembly-scaled_1_6_-_ver_24_Model_1_825x642.jpg
Click Image to Resize

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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #964 on: Jun 3rd, 2010, 7:10pm »
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hi all,
 
dale: boy, you're gettin' closer!  nice work!  now...about your questions.  the bobber caboose is still in the shop and its under-carriage is mcc box-n-pedestal (looks over-scale, maybe 1.75" or 2" scale) and i've still got a set of 1.5" scale box-n-pedestals from loco parts (i think) that i'll measure for you in the next couple days.  
 
keep up the good work.
 
moose
 
on Jun 2nd, 2010, 9:53pm, Steam290 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey Moose, or anyone out there,
 
There was mention of the MCC express and caboose truck. Can anyone tell me what kind of clearance they have between the pedestals and the journal boxes in both across track and in line with track. In other words, if you are looking down, in the X and Y directions? Hate to go buy a set just for research.
 
Been working on my beloved Burlington # 7 truck design and couldn't come up with a drawing for the journal box. So I am melding, or is that welding, from car builder's cyclopedia drawings and what drawings I do have of the # 7 truck.
 
I have several of the wood components dimensioned and have started on a wood prototype. I am investigating commercial and home casting for the obviously cast parts. Anyone in the Atlanta area doing casting?
 
As I progress pictures will be forthcoming. I am still working on trying to resaw crooked lumber without a jointer, planer, or bandsaw.  
 
Here's a picture of my 3d design. Welcome to my madness.
 
Dale



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Steam290
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  20100607-n-004_640x_7_Truck_Project.jpg - 32234 Bytes
« Reply #965 on: Jun 8th, 2010, 4:35pm »
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More forward progress. Here's the wheelpieces and the transoms cut out. No holes yet.  
 
I've been using a dial vernier to lay out the cut lines. I've also been using a digital caliper to set up my fence on the table saw.
 
As far as the metal parts, what materials are journal boxes, pedestals, and other parts typically made of in this scale? Cast Iron, Zinc, aluminum, steel. I would think casting steel would be the best but most expensive. Aluminum for a sliding surface such as a journal riding in a pedestal would be a poor choice I think. Cast iron would seem to make sense to me. If something wore out, brazing could be used to build up the surface and it could be remachined.
 
Dale
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20100607-n-004_640x_7_Truck_Project.jpg
Click Image to Resize

« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2010, 1:16pm by Steam290 » Logged
Steam290
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  20100606-n-003_640_x_7_Truck_Project.jpg - 61985 Bytes
« Reply #966 on: Jun 8th, 2010, 4:40pm »
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A pic of my dial surface gauge and laying out.
 
Dale


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/20100606-n-003_640_x_7_Truck_Project.jpg
Click Image to Resize

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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #967 on: Jun 8th, 2010, 5:59pm »
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Dale, I'm gonna run my mug into this one and ol' moosey can counter, if he so desires. Just about all of the materials mentioned have been used, with varying degrees of success. Aluminum is frequently used (a p poor choice imho). There is a left coast mfg that actually uses aluminum in pedestal type locomotive journal boxes! Most 1.5 journal boxes use ball bearing inserts, although some notables actually use half-brasses.
 
For a pedestal type box, like you're doing and I have coming down the pike at me, steel, cast iron or bronze would be suitable, with one caveat; design in and use a sacrificial wear surface at the "interface"
 
Nice height gauge.
 
At the risk of becoming a PITA and wearing out my welcome, I feel obliged to comment on your choice of wood. There is a significant mass involved with these cars and the kinetic energy that goes with it. Wht you are using appears to be fir, pine or spruce. If I'm wrong, ignore the following. You may wish you had chosen a nice, straight grained hardwood and studied it for grain orientation. That wavy grain, especially when weakened by fastener holes, is very subject to separation.
 
I do not mean to offend by the above comments, but save you from the same learning misadventures that many of us have experienced.
 
Greg B.
 


« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2010, 6:13pm by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
Steam290
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Posts: 60
Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #968 on: Jun 9th, 2010, 1:14pm »
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No offense taken. This is my first foray into the abyss.  
 
This is my "prototype" - or learning curve. I am going to attempt to make all my mistakes on this and then build with white oak. White oak I understand is strong and has a closed cell or closed fiber. My terminology is probably incorrect. But it will not wick up moisture like most other woods. It's moisture absorption properties are more like cedar. I will also be paying more attention to the grain and will not have knots. It will get painted also. Better to hide deformities ---  
 
I welcome all comments,
 
Dale


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #969 on: Jun 9th, 2010, 2:04pm »
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Dale,
I'm glad that you were not offended, because none was intended. Some people are a little "thin skinned" when it comes to recieving constructive criticism.
 
White Oak is an excellent choice, for the very reasons you stated. The grain is a bit coarse, for the rivet counters. If you are near any large boat yards, you would probably be surprised at the teak and mahogony "scraps" that they discard. Also, some of the fruit woods are suitable, like some pears and apples. In addition, if you are in the South (Dixie), you might find some salvage Long Leaf Yellow Pine (not the crap from the big box stores. It's strong, dense and, when quarter sawn, a beautiful wood. Just pay attention to the grain structure in what ever you choose.
 
Hope I have helped,
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #970 on: Jun 9th, 2010, 7:52pm »
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hi all,
 
dale:  your work is wonderful!  and btw, it deserves to be shown and spoken of in its own thread!  sooooo my friend, you can start one yourself or let me know what you want to call it and i'll do it.  i'll also copy and paste all the posts referenced here to the new thread.  your efforts are too nice and too valuable to be lost in all the 'moosey stuff'.  
 
while we've never met, please know how much i would like to scare you in the dark and sit with you over more than one cup of coffee next time i'm in north georgia, as pockets would say.
 
working with you and charlie in future is going to be a hoot!
 
moose
 
on Jun 2nd, 2010, 9:53pm, Steam290 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey Moose, or anyone out there,
 
There was mention of the MCC express and caboose truck. Can anyone tell me what kind of clearance they have between the pedestals and the journal boxes in both across track and in line with track. In other words, if you are looking down, in the X and Y directions? Hate to go buy a set just for research.
 
Been working on my beloved Burlington # 7 truck design and couldn't come up with a drawing for the journal box. So I am melding, or is that welding, from car builder's cyclopedia drawings and what drawings I do have of the # 7 truck.
 
I have several of the wood components dimensioned and have started on a wood prototype. I am investigating commercial and home casting for the obviously cast parts. Anyone in the Atlanta area doing casting?
 
As I progress pictures will be forthcoming. I am still working on trying to resaw crooked lumber without a jointer, planer, or bandsaw.  
 
Here's a picture of my 3d design. Welcome to my madness.
 
Dale



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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #971 on: Jun 10th, 2010, 12:30am »
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On another board Jack Bodenmann used maple for wooden parts on an early tender truck he is building. I've used red oak on the passenger truck parts I've been working on, but maple seems to be a better choice. I used maple for bolsters on an early style truck that I partially built several years ago and I think I agree with Jack. Oak is tough, but it has a coarse grain which tends to deflect a drill into the softer parts of the grain. I've also had some problems with it splitting along the grain during some machining operations.  
 
I started to design around mortices and even bought a mortising attachment. After further thought, I decided to use dowell pins as they are hidden and should be take a lot less time to machine than mortice and tenon joints.  
 
There are an awful lot of holes in a single side frame. I'm assuming you'll be using a drill jig to drill your holes once you have the details worked out. They can be used to accurately locate the bolt holes as well as dowel pins. I don't know if this is already your plan, but using patterns and a router with a guide bearing will let you do the final shaping to turn identical parts out quickly.
 
The prototypes have several thicknesses of boards and in my opinion, avoiding nominal 1" lumber increases the wow factor. I coughed up the money for a table top planer and I'm glad I did. My early efforts with it were a bit of a disappointment, but after doing some Internet research and making some adjustments it does what I want. With a little trial and error I can set it to within a few thousandths of the desired thickness. I've even thought about fitting a cheap dial indicator to make it easier to set the thickness.
 
On material for the the journals and pedestals, aluminum is used on many of the commercial trucks for the sliding joint between the bolster and bolster guide bars. It also tends to be a wear point as aluminum on aluminum isn't a good combination for a bearing surface. It can gaul and is also a bit soft. The ZA alloys are suppose have good bearing qualities, but I haven't found anything saying whether ZA against ZA is an acceptable combination. I guess I'll find out. Sand cast iron doesn't have the sharp detail the I want and I don't have a way to melt it, so it isn't an option. Silicon bronze is supposed to be a good material and should be good working against itself, but costs are higher than ZA or aluminum and it casts at a higher temperature than the other two materials. An advantage of bronze is that you can silver solder simple castings together to make complex assemblies.
 
I initially planned to use 1/4" plate for the equalizers and seperate castings for the spring mounts. Not having a cheap source of plate nor a fast way to cut it, I tried bar stock with triangles cut at the bends, the bends put into place, and then welding them. Way too time consuming. My current plan is to use aluminum castings to give a good appearance with  effective use of my time.
 
(I'm assuming this and some of my other posts will follow your posts when you get your own thread.)


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #972 on: Jun 18th, 2010, 7:11pm »
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hi all,
 
back out in the shop again today.  taking a break from the 44 tonner this week in order to get the bobber caboose to the point that it can go home.  i did some of the easy repair work months ago, but hadn't painted it.  the photo below shows the prep for painting.
 

 

 
then there was the broken joint on one of the ladders...
 

 
that also got repaired today.  the photo below shows 1st heat, it took 2 heatings to finally seat the harder silver solder.
 

 
the next photo shows the repaired ladder hoops waiting for 2nd paint.
 

 
...and finally, new work!  the reflector tripod for one of the lamps has found shape.  more cleaning and polishing will be needed on the reflector.
 

 
how the lamp will look when finally in place!
 

 
enjoy,
 
moose


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BobbyT
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #973 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 8:18pm »
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Lookin good George!

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Steam290
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  LiveSteam/Equalizer_ver_6_Model_1.jpg (Note: Can't Find Attachment!)
« Reply #974 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 8:38pm »
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Hi all,
 
Thanks for all the great advice. I'll have to see what I can find on different woods. The comments on the grain in white oak now have me curious. When I get up to the professional lumber yard next time, I'll ask some questions and look around. Boat builders - hmm - have to think on that. Should be someone around.
 
Dick,
 
as far as your equalizers, I know you're doing a lot of your building by blowing up or scaling down drawings. I figured I would send my AutoCAD drawing to my local water jet guy and I'd have nice equalizers all cut out. Springs seats are truncated 4 side pyramids. A little grinding would take care of that. MY biggest challenge is the part that rests on the j box is thicker. I figure I'll have to really learn silver soldering and build them up. Could also screw them together. If you want, I'll see what I could do for your equalizers. Should have a picture of the Q's equalizer attached.
 
Moose,
 
Coffee in the dark, no problem.   Got a nice covered back deck with ceiling fans and plenty of shade trees. It's not bad in the summer and my wife and I usually eat dinner out there. Have had many a RR discussion back there even with thunderstorms rolling through. It's quite pleasant. So come on up. Also have a spare twin bed if any of you characters need a place to rest.
 
My own thread... I am humbled. Don't really want to hijack this one. And I do go hot and cold. Lot of things get in the way of my hobbying. So, if you think it best, sounds fine. Should I be Grice the Grimy?   Thread name: Wood beam truck construction? I'm open to name suggestions. Maybe Dick will continue to help on the topic. Love to have it. And anyone else's input. My biggest fear is that having another thread would dilute the input since there seems to be a good following here.  
 
Dale


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Steam290
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  LiveSteam/Equalizer_ver_6_Model_1.jpg (Note: Can't Find Attachment!)
« Reply #975 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 8:40pm »
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Well my photo of the dwg didn't make it. Trying again.
 
Dale


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Steam290
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  Equalizer.jpg - 7702 Bytes
« Reply #976 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 8:42pm »
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ARghhh
One more time??
 
Dale


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/Equalizer.jpg
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Steam290
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #977 on: Jun 23rd, 2010, 6:30pm »
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A couple other thoughts come to mind regarding the CB&Q wood frame truck project.
 
The dowel idea of Dick's is a great idea. Hadn't thought of that. Cuts down on having to buy a mortise tool for my drill press.
 
As far as the drill wandering in oak; If you start with a center drill your hole shouldn't wander.  After the center drill go with a close to finished hole size. It also occurred to me that I should have drill the holes in the wheeelpiece ends before cutting the tenons. Wouldn't get any splintering out and wouldn't need a backup piece of wood to drill in to.
 
Dale
 


« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2010, 8:19am by Steam290 » Logged
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #978 on: Jun 25th, 2010, 8:58pm »
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hi all,
 
dale:  your thread 'CBQ/Burlington #7 Wood Beam Trucks!', awaits you!  will you dilute the input here?  absolutely not!  you'll find that by watching the 'hit' numbers, when you post your new work, people are really interested in what you are doing.  don't worry about the number of replies.  remember, the railfan live steam board is a teaching site...we also have a lot of fun!  
 
to all:  a note to others that make be thinking of starting their own threads...we start threads about what will be a complete project, not bits and pieces.  there are other boards out there where everytime someone makes a new bolt or nut, they create a thread about it.  that's okay for those boards, but the info passed along gets lost in the sheer number of threads that make up one project.  your project info is too valuable to be lost that way.
 
back to the bobber caboose...
 
over the last week, i'm been able to make a little more progress towards completing alex's dod caboose.  one of the things i had to make was a cradle to hold the roof section while i worked on it...upside down.  it has become so handy that if either steamheaton or bruce r gives me half-a-chance, i'll make one for each them.  
 

 
with the cradle to aid me, i was able to get the 'fiddley bits'  together to bring the caboose closer to going home soon.  in the photo below, you can see that most of the wire runs have been made.  i still need some strain-relief for the 2 cables that run down to the control box.  and yes, the wiring is small gauge, but we are talking about lamps that pull less than 30 milliamps.  due to the low current, i could make alex comfortable with unplugging rca phono plugs rather than the harder-to-undo power connectors.  by using a terminal strip, i have room for additional circuits if alex desires other 'goodies'.
 

 
fused and ready for power, the control box was mounted on the floor.  i wanted to make things easier for alex to get to...so the fuse-holder is external and the power cord uses an anderson connector so he can disconnect the whole system from the battery.
 

 
still have some tidying up to do, but the electrical work is gettin' there.  so how about the lamp-housing?  well, from this...
 

 
to this....
 

 
i'm closing in on final 'fiddly bits' of alex's dod bobber caboose.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #979 on: Jun 26th, 2010, 6:25am »
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   George,
 
   With each and every project that you get involved in, you keep outdoing yourself. I enjoy seeing your workmanship. And your imagination at work.


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