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Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Author  Topic: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose  (Read 29183 times)
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #920 on: Jun 21st, 2009, 7:22pm »
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hi all,
 
i've been whittlin' down my 'honey-do' list, but will be back in the shop soon.  for now, i wanted to show a couple of pictures that i didn't post and held in reserve as a surprize for ray.  happy belated birthday, ray!  this is why you didn't get your 2nd fusee rack...yet.
 

 

 

 
happy fathers' day to all.
 
moose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #921 on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 10:15pm »
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   George,
 
   I can't thank you enough for shareing this entire build with us. This interior is "Awesome".  
 
   See ya soon,
 
   Bruce


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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #922 on: Jul 17th, 2009, 1:18am »
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I was curious how caboose steps are attached. Since I had to go to Wasilla to dig a trench in the crawl space at a rental house (I'm getting too old for this), I stopped at the Museum of Alaska Transportation and Industry to look at a circa 1920 caboose with wooden body and steel frame and a few of the other items of rolling stock.
 
The caboose stairs are attached with six carriage bolts on each side. Rounded heads face the inside of the stairs. On one side they are fastened to the steel end sill, on the other to the body bolster. Does anyone know if this is the typical practice for attaching stairs on cabooses and passenger cars?
 
Some other details for those considering building a caboose:
 
This caboose is circa 1917 and build for the Alaska Railroad. I didn't make notes, but my recollection is that it was build by Seattle Car and Foundry. The steps are all wood. Stringers and treads are made from 1-1/2 thick material. I think the risers were the same, but didn't look closely. Stringers have rabbets for the treads and risers. (I was glad to see that, as I had already planned on using rabbets on mine.) The center sill is made from two 12" channels. Side sills are 8" channel. It looks like plates are riveted to the top and bottom of the center sill. The end sill is a piece of channel, open side facing the end of the car. Trucks are arch bar with leaf springs and are not swing trucks.
 
I forgot to measure look closely at the siding, but did look at a steel frame, wooden body box car the is preported to have come from the Copper River and Northwestern with a build date around 1915. The boards are about 5" wide, and are beaded with a bead down the center. Pretty upscale for a box car! Lots of work for a modeler. I wonder if there is a way to bead plywood without making two passes with a router? I suppse a specially sharpened saw blade might work.
 
The box looks like a neat one to model. It's about 40 feet, but has lumber doors at each end.
 
Next time I'll have to take a camera.


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #923 on: Jul 18th, 2009, 6:38pm »
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hi all,
 
dick:  a lot of things went on that are not exactly what the original manufacturer put in place.
 
on Jul 17th, 2009, 1:18am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I was curious how caboose steps are attached...I stopped at the Museum of Alaska Transportation and Industry to look at a circa 1920 caboose with wooden body and steel frame and a few of the other items of rolling stock.
 
The caboose stairs are attached with six carriage bolts on each side. Rounded heads face the inside of the stairs. On one side they are fastened to the steel end sill, on the other to the body bolster. Does anyone know if this is the typical practice for attaching stairs on cabooses and passenger cars?.

 
while not everybody did it that way, it would be a 'common' practice by the carbody carpenters.  anything that got the car back on the line and out of their shops.
 
below are a couple examples of what can be found among the cabeese.
 
 

 
 

 
 
on Jul 17th, 2009, 1:18am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

This caboose is circa 1917 and build for the Alaska Railroad. I didn't make notes, but my recollection is that it was build by Seattle Car and Foundry. The steps are all wood. Stringers and treads are made from 1-1/2 thick material. I think the risers were the same, but didn't look closely. Stringers have rabbets for the treads and risers.  
 
I forgot to measure look closely at the siding, but did look at a steel frame, wooden body box car the is preported to have come from the Copper River and Northwestern with a build date around 1915. The boards are about 5" wide, and are beaded with a bead down the center. Pretty upscale for a box car! Lots of work for a modeler. I wonder if there is a way to bead plywood without making two passes with a router? I suppse a specially sharpened saw blade might work.

 
about the step units, it may sound strange, but you can't think of the dimensions in normal 'inch' type increments.  in timber country, a rough sawn 1" board is known as '4 quarters' or 4x1/4" or 4/4.  you find most wooden steps to be either 5/4 or 6/4.  why, because they could be inletted to receive the individual steps or because the type of wood required it to be that thick for strength.  for your caboose, you may have to re-saw your lumber to get the right thickness.  
while we are on the subject of steps and step support,  i found some details that almost nobody in the hobby uses.  from my 'secret-stash-o-stuff' i'm going to show you...and only you...don't tell a soul!   it's our secret, okay?!
 

 

 
the step units above were created as replacements on an original cab.  the materials are different, but the design is original.  you see the threaded rods reinforcing the lower portion of the step unit?  most of the people building cabeese in the hobby over look this detail.  why?  your answer is a good as mine.  why did the railroads take them off?  they were a nuisance for the trainmen and a worthless bother for the carmen.
 

 
the image above may be a little blurry, but when you look under the endsill, you'll find evidence of the support rod being there.  when i checked the step unit itself, there's no hardware mounting patterns.  that tells me the step unit wasn't original to the car.  did the museum goof when they restored the car?  no, they restored it to its last working days.  
 
dick, if you are going to the trouble of creating a 'bead' look, why not go to the next step and actually create tongue-n-groove lumber?  the lumber could be created on one of horrible freight's mini-shapers.  where am i leading you off to?  do a board-on-board build-up...it's easy to do once you understand that you don't build the car sides in stand-up fashion.  you'll build them on a flatboard with the necessary trueing jigs to keep it square.  it's how model airplane wings are done.  yes, it will take a little more time, but think what you could do during 2 of your alaskan winter days!
 
hope this helps.
 
moose


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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #924 on: Jul 19th, 2009, 1:23am »
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Thanks for the photos and notes. Your secret is safe with me!
 
I guess using individual boards for the siding an option, but for the box car it would take twice as many boards as the prototype because each board has a bead in the middle as well as at the edge. A bead every 2-1/2 inches, or every 5/16 inch for a 1/8 scale model. Amost 200 boards per side. Yikes!
 
I have a router and table, so can probably make do without a shaper. I also have a planer I got to mill the wooden pieces of the truck frames, so I guess I could do it. I'll have to think about this.
 
I noticed that one of the steps on the ARR caboose had a 1/2" plywood spacer between the step and end sill. It obviously wasn't there when it was built. I didn't have time to look closely to see if it looked like they followed the original construction when repairs were done to the steps. The floor boards on one platform are pressure treated lumber. I believe this was done at the museum. A compromise, but it will probobaly last longer because of it.
 
I also noticed a pretty good ding in one of the body bolsters inboard of the truck. It must have received a good whack at some point and I have to wonder if there were other damages at the same time that were repaired.


« Last Edit: Sep 5th, 2009, 4:26pm by Dick_Morris » Logged
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #925 on: Aug 14th, 2009, 3:47pm »
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hi all,
 
it's been awhile since the ic caboose went to illinois.  ray is having a great time with (well, it and the ic mike)!  so i've been slowly working on the blue welder, trying to get the bathroom remodeled, and working on alex's bobber caboose.  
 
the bobber caboose needed some small repairs...which have been accomplished.  when the weather dries out, i'm finish the touch-up paint work.  over the last couple of weeks, i've been experimenting with how to put working l.e.d. marker lamps on the roof...not the corners.  a practice done by the dod that alex used to work for.  a while back, i started working on the lamp housings, but wasn't satisfied with the results.  i'm still working toward that end.  i'll have pictures to show, shortly.
 
for now, i'm also working toward cleaning the shop out in order to install some new equipment (new to me).  when that's done, i'll be able to do some work on the shay-like locomotive.  yeah!  as a side-bar, i'll be visiting the ten-wheeler group to get some hands-on knowledge and partake of the comraderie of that particular group.  i found that feeling at the bcrr and miss out when i can't be with them.  the updates we get from don and the group lets me know that they like the bcrr, know what it is about.  gonna be a great weekend.  
 
bcrr...watch out!  i'll be in your neck of the woods...shortly!
 
moose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #926 on: Sep 4th, 2009, 3:34pm »
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hi all,
 
yes, its been a while for this thread, but not much longer.  i've some additional repairs to make for the bobber caboose so it can go home.  shortly, i'll pick up the legacy erie and the eje for some minor repairs.  keep watchin'!
 
moose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #927 on: Dec 9th, 2009, 9:26pm »
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hi all,
 
my apologies for being missing-in-action...i've been here, watching and enjoying.  you've been my key to our 'shared' insanity!  'fess up time, my medics couldn't believe i didn't have a problem with the ole ticker, so they ran it up pass 105% full throttle...didn't miss a beat!  i've been put through medical hell, many of you know of what i speak...i can't wait to get back in the shop and put it all behind me!  after the holidays, this space will once again hum with activity.
 
so what have i sneaked into the shop and worked on lately?  well, the blue english welder now has a working motor controller and new air compressor.   the internal brass lamps are ready for the bobber caboose...
 
moose...about to be back on the loose!


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BobbyT
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #928 on: Dec 9th, 2009, 9:32pm »
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GEORGE!!!! I am so happy to see you are well. You have been very missed.

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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #929 on: Dec 9th, 2009, 10:01pm »
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   George,
 
   This is really good news. As of our last phone talk, I knew about some of this but did'nt feel it was my place to elaborate on an open forum why you were AWOL.
 
   Sure do hope to see you soon.
 
   Bruce


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Steen_Rudberg
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #930 on: Dec 12th, 2009, 1:55pm »
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Hi George
 
Nice to here that you are back. I have been missing your sharp pen  
 
Take care


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Steen Rudberg
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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  Passenger_car_truck_prototype_1.jpg - 59777 Bytes
« Reply #931 on: Dec 16th, 2009, 3:35am »
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Life got in the way for most of the summer, but I've finally had some time to spend on rail projects. In the photo I'm starting to fit the parts together for my eighth scale, 7 foot wheelbase passenger car truck. The only parts shown that didn't come to me as raw material are the bolts and nuts. I'll be using the same parts to build a pair of 6 foot wheelbase caboose trucks for a circa 1870 Central Pacific caboose. The prototype drawings are from "Railway Car Construction," William Voss, 1892 and reprinted by Newton Gregg as "Train Shed Cyclopedia," No. 39.  
 
Moose, sorry to hear that health issues sidelined you but glad to hear you are on the mend. I just reread this entire caboose thread as well as the other car building material you wrote in the Largo thread. I'm looking forward to your future efforts.
 
 
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/Passenger_car_truck_prototype_1.jpg
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tomc
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #932 on: Dec 16th, 2009, 8:28am »
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Dick,  is that white oak you are using?  Lookin good.
 
Tom C.


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BobbyT
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #933 on: Dec 16th, 2009, 8:18pm »
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Dick that is looking really good. What ratio did you use to enlarge the drawing?

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #934 on: Dec 17th, 2009, 12:04am »
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White oak. That's what the orange hardware store had. I'll be sure and seal it well.
 
I think it was 253% on this drawing, 157% on one of various metal parts. I got close and then played with it some to get as close to 1/8 as I could. It's a whole lot easier when you can just measure the drawing.


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Dan Watson
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #935 on: Dec 17th, 2009, 9:55pm »
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Dick,
I went through the same drill on drawings for my mikado project.  Went to the blueprint shop, had them enlarge the drawing 201%, not quite right.  Next try, 203%, a little better.  Third try......   They were very accommodating!  


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ConrailRed9504
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #936 on: Dec 26th, 2009, 12:57pm »
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George,
    You out did yourself once again. That caboos looks great!
Russell


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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  Cutting_side_frames_2_resized.jpg - 39424 Bytes
« Reply #937 on: Dec 28th, 2009, 9:40pm »
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A correction to the post above, red oak was what the box store had.
 
I'm plugging away on wooden parts. All are planed to thickness and width and cut to length. There are 13 wooden parts per truck and ten of them have mortises and/or tenons.  For six trucks that's 68 pieces.  
 
Making the first cut on the side beam (side frame.) A fence is on the right and a stop is almost invisable on the far side of the blade.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/Cutting_side_frames_2_resized.jpg
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« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2009, 9:56pm by Dick_Morris » Logged
Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  Cutting_side_frames_1_resized.jpg - 42494 Bytes
« Reply #938 on: Dec 28th, 2009, 9:50pm »
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Another cut on a side beam. There are five cuts for the tenons and step on each end and four mortises in the sides.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/Cutting_side_frames_1_resized.jpg
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« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2009, 9:55pm by Dick_Morris » Logged
BobbyT
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #939 on: Jan 20th, 2010, 10:05pm »
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Hey George, I came across this link to the Sandy River & Rangley lakes museum project restoration page: http://www.srrl-rr.org/Projects/Projects.htm
 
There are some great caboose interior shots as well as some passenger cars stripped down to frame work. Great details to behold!


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