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Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Author  Topic: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose  (Read 29075 times)
SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #900 on: May 23rd, 2009, 9:59pm »
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George , you have certainly out-done yourself.   This  Illinois Central caboose is ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!!!   I will be proud to have this on the rear of my train.  Thank you    Ray III

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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #901 on: May 24th, 2009, 7:30am »
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Beautiful, George. Simply beautiful.
 
Congratulations, Ray.
 
Greg B.


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BobbyT
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #902 on: May 24th, 2009, 5:33pm »
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Wow, I mean just wow..... I am speechless. George, words just seem to fail at describing how impressed I am with you most recent creation.

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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #903 on: May 24th, 2009, 9:30pm »
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hi all,
 
many thanks for the compliments, but you guys are the wind that fills my sails.   errr, that didn't come out right, but i think y'all understand.  i'm thankful to ray for allowing me to go further than i've been and for giving me freedom to do what i wanted to do.  there are some true craftsmen out there that don't toot their horns.  their work speaks of volumes.  my work compared to theirs is simple and crude, but they didn't get there overnight...nor will i.  it's my journey to take, they've alright done it.  many thanks to pockets, bruce, and all the other denizons that check in and give encouragement to keep improving.
 
so, here's so more pics on the NOW FINISHED ILLINOIS CENTRAL CABOOSE!
the first pic is taken facing the 'a' end of the flare rack.
 

 
btw, pockets....i didn't forget to touchup the hinges!  the photo above was taken before touchup occured.  the next pic shows the 'a' end door and 'library' door...with curtains just visible.
 

 
and here's the window with curtains.
 

   
here's the 'b' end door.
 

 
you're looking back towards the stove pad.  and yes, the curtains are up, but won't be installed by the stove.  ya think!
 

 
the curtains were hand-made by a new friend from canada.  wendy, her mother and her daughter spent a lot of spare time and effort on rays' behalf.  wendy, from all of us here on railfan...thank you!  they look spectacular!
 
enjoy!
 
moose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #904 on: May 24th, 2009, 10:08pm »
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hi all,
 
crating to begin tomorrow!  ray, i'll call with instructions...be talkin' to ya soon!
 
okay, now's the time to see how i did...
 
here's the photo i worked from.
 

 
and here's my take on it...not exact, but close...
 

 
...and finally, the car that i wanted to honor because it was built by rays' late friend.  i'm let ray explain.  hopefully, we'll get pictures of the two cars together during their june meet away up nawth!
 

 
whatcha think?!
 
enjoy...its finally pevo time!
 
moose-the-tired-the-very-tired!


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #905 on: May 28th, 2009, 12:07am »
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hi all,
 
tonight, the ic caboose is loaded up for trucking!  here's how the crating process went.
 
the first step is measuring the car for a base tray.  with tray at its very basic stage...measure, measure, measure, and after that, measure again!  ya don't want to find that the tray is a tab bit too small once the car has been transferred to it.
 

 
in my case, i have another pair of the same trucks to test with, just had to know the center-to-center distance of the bolster pins.  you'll also notice that i'm using counter-tension instead of bolts to hold things down.  for what i'm doing, it works just fine.  if i were to try this with heavier vehicles (engines or cars), i might think differently.  be still the horror of the thought, nothing could spare the car if a 2 ton towmotor careened into it or heaven-forbid...speared it.   having scared ray to death, i think he's going to be pleased with the car once it is safely in his possession.
 

 
as night descended, the case reached completion with the addition of the bottom skids.
 

 
with the car safely in place, my son begins the process of making sure anything that could move...didn't.
 

 
with the lid securely screwed on, it's finally loaded for the trip to the freight terminal tomorrow morning!
 

 
ray, enjoy the car and keep sharing with others.   be sure and let swmbo have her way installing the rest of the curtains and picking out what color to make the bunk cushions!  thank you for letting me do something for a dear friend of whom i can say that patience is a virtue.   lastly, we want to see a LOT OF PICTURES FOR THE JUNE MEET!  i wish i could be there myself when you unpack this beasty...make sure to take pictures of that too!
 
with the ic caboose about to be on its way, what's next?  well, there's the library to finish, a bobber caboose to install lamps in, a service wagon for the clamped lake, an erie caboose to repair, another bobber to build, and an sal cab for me.  yep, that'll keep me busy?!
 
good night all.
 
moose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #906 on: May 28th, 2009, 10:37pm »
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   GOOD NIGHT NURSE !!!!!!!! That thing is BEAUTIFUL.
 
   George, your attention to detail goes way over the edge. Thaks so much for shareing this build with all of us.
 
   Bruce


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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #907 on: May 31st, 2009, 6:36pm »
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Someone on the Chaski Live Steam board pointed me at this thread a few weeks ago. I've read it a couple of times from start to finish. There is a lot of good information. Moose - thanks for taking the time to give the blow-by-blow description of your efforts.
 
My project is Central Pacific drovers caboose #51 from 1872 in 1-1/2" scale. I scored and cut out the sides several years ago before other priorities took over. I'm currently working of a set of passenger car style trucks to go under it. The caboose trucks were the same design, but when used in a caboose, they had a shorter wheel base. Since most of the castings aren't available and I'm too cheap to buy those that are, I'm having to make my own patterns to cast my own parts.
 
A couple of thoughts - Following Moose's suggestion of doll house windows, I found a clearance on them on Ebay and bought a bunch for a bit over $1.00 each for the non-opening variety. The design of the non-opening window is actually fairly accurate for most caboose and passenger car applications as the prototypes typically had a single sash which dropped into the wall below the window frame to open.  
 
For applications where they are the right size, they make quick, good looking windows that take a a lot less work than fabrication. Unfortunately, they are on the narrow side for many caboose and most passenger car windows. They are also a bit too tall, but that's easily fixed. I've thought about taking two windows to make one wider window or milling some stock and patching it into the top and bottom of the frame, similar to what Moose showed when he modify the width, but that may take more work than building a complete window.
 
I like the idea of 1" X 2" tubing for the spine on cabooses and cars. Is 16 gauge wall thick enough?
 
Moose - could you post a few more photos of your set up for scribing the siding? The siding I've done so far was with a straight edge and Dremal with a router base and flame tip. That was way too much work.
 
I like birch plywood for car sides. It has a fairly straight, tight grain, with no plugs. It's also a bit harder than pine. You have to pick a sheet where the grain is parallel to the length. To get a piece longer than 4' with vertical grain, I cut grooves in the adjacent pieces and us a spline to join them. The joint falls on a seam between two "boards."
 


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #908 on: May 31st, 2009, 9:21pm »
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hi all,
 
dick: great to have you here!  i just posted some ideas/information in the meet & greet thread for you, but i'll repeat them here.
 
dick said:
My project is Central Pacific drovers caboose #51 from 1872 in 1-1/2" scale. I scored and cut out the sides several years ago before other priorities took over. I'm currently working of a set of passenger car style trucks to go under it. The caboose trucks were the same design, but when used in a caboose, they had a shorter wheel base. Since most of the castings aren't available and I'm too cheap to buy those that are, I'm having to make my own patterns to cast my own parts.  
 
 
about the cp caboose project:  start with your engine and the resource photos/drawings available.  most people build their cars to more modern specs.  when the cars are coupled to the cp 173, they dwarf it.  for the day and time, cp 173 was a mainline loco.  no matter the track guage, the cars were MUCH narrower for the time-period.  while you may be inclined to say that it's too late to reconsider,  measure your loco at the widest section, then look at how wide you are going to build your car(s).  a 7 to 8 foot wide car wasn't uncommon for the time.  prototype practice really helps.  in a thread on another network, a photo showed up of a couple of reefers behind a flatcar...the flatcar was wider.  why?  the reefers were run within a system.  when the narrow gauge line was shuttered, they were moved to standard gauge, only the trucks would have been changed for the most part.  a box is a box.  only when the railroads needed to haul more freight did the cars get larger.  the shift to standardized widths came from the passenger side of things.
 
while this jig has been posted before, it bares repeating...it's dead simple to build and works beautifully!  with patience, you can turn out enough grooved plywood to build the average railcar in about 1 1/2 hours time.  i budget a new plywood blade for every project.  by the time you are done cutting the grooves, so is the blade.  running a blade shallow doesn't give it time to cool.  i won't call my siding 'scale', but an artistic eye will tell you the spacing the looks right.  for my 1.5" work, cutting on .375" (3/ centers gives the look i'm after.  since you've talked about using birch, voids are less of a problem for you, but careful choice of siding materials will keep you from doing it twice...or three times...maybe four?!
 
 

 

 

 
more...a little later, starting an early shift tomorrow.
 
glad your here!
 
moose


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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #909 on: Jun 1st, 2009, 12:06am »
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Moose -
 
Thanks for the welcome and the additional photos of your jig. Berne Ketchum has made some nice passenger cars that he described on the Chaski board and in Home Railway Journal. He uses a radial arm saw for his grooves - but that's a tool I don't have.  
 
Berne modified a fine tooth plywood blade to give a V tip. I don't know if he has a proper sharpener or he does if off-hand.  That may be something to try some day, but for now I have a thin kerf carbide finishing blade that's only about 1/16" wide.
 
How do you do control the groove-to-groove spacing? I'm thinking about a detent that would take the location from a previous slot so I don't have to measure each slot against a tape measure. The boards on the prototype would have been just a touch wider or narrower than the nominal size due to the set-up of the saw mill and any shrinkage between the saw mill and when a board was installed. If it's good enough for the prototype, a slightly over or under-spaced goove should be good enough for the model.
 
For my caboose, I'm fortunate in having a dimensioned drawing. It was drawn in 1938, long after the caboose was gone, but comes from a source that should be accurate. The prototype is 9'4" wide from side-to-side (which scales to 14") with just a bit more for the eaves. That's the same width as the locomotive and tender.
 
For those interested in the Central Pacific or Southern Pacific,  there is an excellent book on cabooses. Southern Pacific Freight Cars Volume 2: Cabooses, by Anthony W. Thompson, published in 2008  I got a copy through an inter-library loan and it has a lot of good information including some drawings, lots of photos, and rosters of CP and SP cabooses. The author has also written similar books on other SP rolling stock.


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #910 on: Jun 1st, 2009, 6:43pm »
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hi all,
 
dick:  i'm glad to hear that you have your refences and a plan to start from!
to answer some of your remaining questions:
 
i used a circular saw because i had it...it's was a matter of dancing with who ya brung!  the truth of the matter is, the time period both of us like had numerous choices for construction.   most people want to believe that car siding was all tongue-n-groove.  a lot was, but ship-lap or rabbit-lap was equally popular (which is why groove the way i do it is mostly correct...why do i say mostly correct?  because the saw kerf is out of scale.), not to be forgotten, the batten-strip method.
 
on Jun 1st, 2009, 12:06am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Berne modified a fine tooth plywood blade to give a V tip. I don't know if he has a proper sharpener or he does if off-hand.  That may be something to try some day, but for now I have a thin kerf carbide finishing blade that's only about 1/16" wide.

 
the photo below is showing the indexing point on the jig.  i can vary that point with the scale of the project.  my background in scenery building and dealing with scenic designers allows me to use my 'eye' sense, something i won't necessarily be able to do machining locomotive parts.  i fully agree with you on the siding, i'm passed the point where i want uniform consistancy.  i want the 'lived', 'lived on' and 'rehabbed because they tore it up' look.  what am i saying?  the further away a car shop was from a metropolitan center, more likely they got their woodstock from a 'thick-n-thin' lumber mill.  lionel, i don't build and don't wish to start.  i'm not knocking those that want to work that way, it just isn't for me.  there are a couple of great builders out west that when they are finished, you can see the coffee stains on the conductors' desk.  that's where i hope my journey takes me.  i may build 3 or 4 more plywood-based cars (2 are already underway), but i will soon start building board-on-board.  the ic caboose project was a chance for me to stretch my wings a little by doing some interior work.
 

 
on Jun 1st, 2009, 12:06am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

How do you do control the groove-to-groove spacing? I'm thinking about a detent that would take the location from a previous slot so I don't have to measure each slot against a tape measure. The boards on the prototype would have been just a touch wider or narrower than the nominal size due to the set-up of the saw mill and any shrinkage between the saw mill and when a board was installed. If it's good enough for the prototype, a slightly over or under-spaced goove should be good enough for the model..

 
the photo below is from the penn state historic archives.  it aslo happens to illustrate what i was talking about by way of period equipment.  follow the roofline from the loco through the cars.  the hobby generally builds them a little taller and wider.  and mind you, the monitor roof(i think that's what it's called) is rarely done in our hobby.  the railroad isn't narrow guage, it's standard or even broad-gauge(5').  your visual cues are the people...cast them at an average of 5' 8" tall, not 6' that most people do.  then let your eye look at the overhang outside the railheads...that ain't 2 feet!  this is my pet peeve with the hobby, it's scale to a point...then?!  but it is also what's fun about the hobby, you can build anyway you want.
 

 
on Jun 1st, 2009, 12:06am, Dick_Morris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

For my caboose, I'm fortunate in having a dimensioned drawing. It was drawn in 1938, long after the caboose was gone, but comes from a source that should be accurate. The prototype is 9'4" wide from side-to-side (which scales to 14") with just a bit more for the eaves. That's the same width as the locomotive and tender...

 
btw, we do have an education thread, if you have a recommendation on a book, set of books, or want to post some of your personal drawings, please feel free.  also consider starting a build-thread for your caboose project, you'll be amazed at how many people want to know how to do it.
 
enjoy,
 
moose
 
 


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #911 on: Jun 1st, 2009, 7:00pm »
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hi all,
 
almost forgot!  an ic caboose update!  poor ray won't get to open his 'package' until tomorrow!   he's stuck overnight in another city, courtesy of his employer.
 
he's promised to take plenty of pictures...tomorrow!
 
moose


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BobbyT
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #912 on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 3:36pm »
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George, That Jig is great. I am already planning on duplicating it. It is simple yet extremely effective. Thank you very much for posting those photos.

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SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #913 on: Jun 3rd, 2009, 5:06pm »
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George, I finally was able to go to the yellow freight dock and pick up the I.C. caboose.  It  made the trip with flying colors. You did a great job on the crate and  securing  the caboose.  George pictures can't do  this  work of art justice.   There is so much to take in,  the detail is simply amazing. I will post a few pics  soon, of it's arrival.  Thank you  Ray III

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  track-04-1-.jpg - 96849 Bytes
« Reply #914 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 4:50am »
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A wooden cabooses built in Alaska. It is outside braced and built by a good friend, Jerry Ware. He has adopted Alaska Central for his equipment, a railroad that was incorporated into the Alaska Railroad around 1915, but the prototype was a caboose used in the Lower 48 that he found in a magazine or book.
 
In front of it you can see a bit of Jerry's "cow car." Several hundred square nuts, I think #2, hold the boards on.
 
In the background is Jerry's tank car.
 
All have steel frames and the caboose steps are also steel. I think the only commercial parts on the three cars are the couplers and nuts and bolts. The  ends on the tank came from propane barbecue tanks.


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Dick_Morris
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #915 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 5:04am »
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An Alaskan caboose built by another friend, Wally Smith. The prototype was from a logging railroad, I think he said it was in British Columbia. The length was to allow the caboose and a given number of cars to fit on a siding on the railroad. A longer caboose would have allowed them to move one less load of logs for each trip. The sides were made from scored MDO (medium density overlay) board, plywood with a waterproof paper facing that is used for hiway signs. The caboose in the background was built by Jim Posey. It has a detailed interior, including the pin up calender over the desk. I don't have a good photo of it.

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SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #916 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 9:13am »
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Here are a few pics of the I.C. caboose on the Illinois end of it's trip. 1st pic is  of the crate at the frieght doc .

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SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #917 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 9:16am »
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next pic shows the crate with lid removed to make  sure nothing happened in transit.

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SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #918 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 9:18am »
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pic shows crate in trailer for trip home.  It was raining all morning so I brought the trailer.

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SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #919 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 9:23am »
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home safe in the garage.   Still in the crate , due to the 12" to the foot.  The caboose will be polishing the rails in decatur next weekend.   I will take lots of pics.  Ray III

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