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Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Author  Topic: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose  (Read 29250 times)
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #720 on: Sep 14th, 2008, 7:33pm »
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hi all,
 
last pic for today...the ic caboose seen from a slightly different angle.
 
enjoy,  
 
moose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #721 on: Sep 14th, 2008, 7:55pm »
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   DAUM, thats nice work!!!!  
 
   George, let us all that are interested here, is it easier to build new such as this cab or re-build like you did with my cab. I've often wondered that after you brought my Erie cab back.
 
   Thanks ahead of time,
 
   Bruce


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #722 on: Sep 14th, 2008, 9:40pm »
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Bruce,
In case George's modesty will prevent candor, I'll speak up. As a fellow old hot rodder, you will remember how we always cherished those cherry pieces of tin. That's because even the most involved new construction is ALWAYS easier than proper restoration. In scratchbuilding, you have the option of scrapping a less than acceptible piece and starting over. Not so, with a restoration. What you're lookin at is what you got.
 
George is 200+ pounds of raw talent. He has the technicians mindset and the artists eye. He has a couple of tools that he wants and has jumped into a nearly vertical learning curve on a couple of additional skills. When he gets them, hang onto your socks. There won't be anyone, in large scale railroading, surpass him for custom built cabeese.
 
Not only is he a superb teacher, as anyone can witness here, he is what anyone who wants to excell has to be; an excellent student. Edumakashun!
 
Greg B.


« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2008, 9:42pm by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #723 on: Sep 14th, 2008, 9:54pm »
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A Tip for the PRO
 
George,
Go to tthe back of your closet (or your wife's) and find some old, worn, soft , heavy leather. Something like the loose end of an old belt, or a purse (remember those tooled leather purses that women had several years ago?) The softer the better. Maybe SWMBO could chew it for you, in the Native American fashion. Cut it into one inch squares and put it under the plastic pads on your bar clamps. The wood will thank you.
 
BTW: I wouldn't normally mention this in public, but your cupola is drooping.....
 
Greg B.


« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2008, 9:56pm by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
rsrlon
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #724 on: Sep 15th, 2008, 12:17am »
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Greg, to borrow a line from Johnny Carson- He could wear a long coat, and nobody would notice!
 
George, I've been contemplating a car project for a while now. Most likely a simple boxcar or reefer, but I have even been toying with the idea of that SAL crew car you posted pictures of a while back. I visited that museum about 8 years ago and I also have some pictures, but they are pre-digital and boxed away right now.
 
I know you told me before, but my memory is foggy. Did you say you used furniture grade plywood for the cars? I can picture myself making lots of expensive kindling trying to groove that stuff. I've considered darker lines of the body color to give the illusion of planking, but I don't know how well that would work.
 
If I go with a reefer, I've found a brand or graphic to use that will have a connection to my hometown. I don't think there are any actual prototypes, but my artistically talented brother may be able to alter the crate label below into a reefer logo.
 
Of course, I also like the idea of a fictional company, "Mom's Old Fashioned Gravy." I've always wanted to ride the gravy train!
 
Lon


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Step 1, as always, is where you begin.
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #725 on: Sep 15th, 2008, 10:40pm »
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hi all,
 
bruce:  as you've guessed and has been aptly put by pockets, doing a restoration/rebuild is by far the hardest work i've done to date.   whether you're working on a museum piece or a 'daily-driver' as your mcc erie cab is, the hardest part is to decide what to touch and what to leave.  to a conscientious technician the question becomes how do i keep it true to the original builder; how do i repair damages without damaging the historic or sentimental value; how do i add value without destroying the provenance values; and how do i make changes that add value for you but another technician can erase in the future if desired?  yes, building another body would have taken far less time and effort, but it wouldn't have been the same car.  i've been wanting to tackle your erie cab for a number of years, i'm glad i did it.  
 
to all:  why the restoration/rebuild?  because my buddy bruce would never ask for himself.  bruce gave and gave and gave of himself to the hobby for years and never asked anything for himself.  i couldn't begin to count the miles and tonnage he's hauled the public.  i can't even begin to count the youngsters who got their first glimpse of and ride behind his erie-atlantic.  too often in this hobby, folks without the heart of a true livesteamer gather and pass judgment on the work of others.  too often, folks run engine-light, but my friend bruce runs full train as much as possible.  while i don't particularly care what the chequebook-railroaders think, i want bruce to hear the 'wow' factor from that next train-load of youngsters as he pulls into the station where ever it maybe.  the mcc erie caboose retains all of it's charm and memories from years past, but is also creating new ones for bruce and his passengers.  so i ask again, why the restoration/rebuild?  because it is a piece of our history.  because it has added value to everyone who's owned it.  because of the memories within it and shared around it.  because someone put alot of themselves into the building of it.  now, whether you see bruce's cab in person or photo, you know that it is an early mcc cab and you can see the original bulder's handiwork.  that's how i intended it be seen, yet i added so much more that it is different from any other mcc cab.  with the exception of the window openings, a careful technician can restore it to a stock mcc cab.  that's the one change that can't be undone...easily.  if my work is erased, the original builder's work still shines through, just as i intended and agonized over.  that's why a restoration is soooo hard!
 
lon:  yes, i use furniture grade plywood for the foundation and like to use it for the siding because of how stable it is.  home improvement hell store's normal cd...er, seedy...er, gp...general purpose, that's it, is crappy! you can also use aircraft grade or marine grade...still expensive though!  depending on time period and length of the reefer, you can get a 30' car out of a single sheet of plywood.  what i normally do is use 5/8" plywood for foundations and 1/2" plywood for ends and sidings.  i cut the 5/8" to a standard width, thereby getting two to three car foundations per sheet.  i budget a single sheet of 1/2" plywood per car(no standard widths or heights). by checking out reference sources like the master carbulder's encyclopedias, for a pre-19teens car roof you can use the same roofing technique that i use for the cabs.  here's my offer, draw up a set of napkin-plans, grab your source photos, and come visit.  der groovin' machine sits idle 99% of the time...i'll show you how to use it.  with about 2 hours work, you'll have enough material for your car.  as pockets says, edumakasun is everything.
 
pockets:  you make me blush...i'll send another $20 as soon as i can!
 
moose


« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2008, 10:41pm by moose_the_caboose » Logged

moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #726 on: Sep 16th, 2008, 12:01am »
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hi all,
 
lon:  sorry!  i couldn't resist!
 
moose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #727 on: Sep 16th, 2008, 7:18am »
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   George,
 
   Thank you so much for the come back on my question. And believe me, I could;nt be happier with the old Erie cab. Your workmanship really shows on it. I appreciate all of your thoughtfull work on it.
 
   Bruce


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Oilcan
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #728 on: Sep 16th, 2008, 9:30am »
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Moose and Bruce:
 
First to Moose... thank you for your continued input regarding your techniques and processes involved in the construction of your cabooses. Your posts have been the most informational that I have found anywhere on the subject. They're inspirational such that I feel I could actually try to make a freight car using your outlines.
 
And Bruce... according to Moose's comments about your desire to haul passengers, thank you! So many times at track meets, I've seen lines of potential riders passed up by empty trains as the engineer enjoys the freedom of not dealing with riders. At one particular track meet, I watched a young mom and dad with their youngster in hand as they waited for over an hour to board a train... any train. There must have been several dozen trains pass without regard to the family. My humble speeder and single riding car can take on two passengers... that's all I can haul. I asked if I could carry them one at a time and they were thrilled. The dad said it was important to them that their son get a chance to ride so mom and son climbed aboard. When we returned, dad was still there waiting for a ride. Unfortunately they had to leave before I could give dad his ride. I've often though of that couple and how they had patiently waited for their turn to ride and not getting one and if we, the hobby, had lost a potential member.
 
So, thanks guys, you're great ambassadors!
 
Neil


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Allen Mogul
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #729 on: Sep 18th, 2008, 10:05pm »
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hi all,
 
bruce:  you are most welcome!  restoring the 'weary erie' to 'spring chicken' was one of the highlights of my hobby.  i'm still thinking about the stilwells and the other erie....
 
neil:  thank you for the compliments...and DO get started, that's why i show my work.  there are too many who show you their finished work, but not how they got there.  believe me, if i kept my heart on my sleeve, posting here would be the last thing i'd do!  you wouldn't believe how picky people can be when it's not their equipment.  we all make mistakes, mine are out for you to see...aren't they pockets!? lol!  neil, as for hauling the public, given the proper circumstances, it's an absolute pleasure to see the faces learning to 'taste' what railroading was like so many years ago!  i could only hope that when my time here is finished, that i hauled at least half the passengers that bruce has.  it's also a treat to see my equipment work hard at what it was supposed to do...railroading.  patrick sky wrote a song, 'many a mile' that has become my anthem for this part of my life.  i'm starting to enjoy it...thanks to all my live steam friends!
 
to all:  i'm refining my building process again to make things a little more unabtrusive, but still keep the strength.  i've used a 'wedge' roof installation technique that has worked well in the past, but required larger body supports (over 5/8" in thickness to 3/4" thickness).  the ic caboose roof wedge supports will be just 1/2" thick.  they can already be seen in some of the prior photos.  the body is being built to slip over the foundation so that it can be removed for repair/renovation/customizing/new body.   the foundation board is just that, it holds the weight of the body by the 'a' and 'b' ends and small blocks along the left and right sides.  to hide securing hardware, wood screws are installed from the bottom of the foundation board into the side blocks.  in anticipation of a new challenge for me, everything is getting a little thinner (1/2").  where am i going with this?  the ability to do better interiors.  smaller vertical supports means more supports...but that's an update for later.  tonight, the roof structure is almost ready to be fitted up.  still in the rough, but gettin' there!  here's where i'm at.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #730 on: Sep 18th, 2008, 10:10pm »
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hi all,  
 
here's another view of the ic caboose...ray, ya better have ya'r mike down here in february!
 
moose


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SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #731 on: Sep 18th, 2008, 11:24pm »
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LoL,     George I must admit you had me wondering, after your raritan river  pic.   I was thinking about all of the ic hacks you showed me including all the branch line and transfer  cabs.   I figured you were just putting your personal spin on it.   It would not matter to me what you create,  I was hoping for a side door , but would be thrilled  , just to have one of your pieces of art.    You are right I better have the  mike at the meet.   It sounds as though it is going to be quite a gathering.  I have been welding at a ferverish pace.  I should have all of the stay bolts except for the backhead welded  by tomorrow.   Thanks for the update it looks great. Ray III

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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #732 on: Sep 20th, 2008, 7:19pm »
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hi all,
 
ray: what a delight to talk to you on the twisted pair last night!  our conversation was quite informative, i learned so much more than the photos show.  to those trying to follow our current conversation, some of the photos ray sent of a cab built by his late friend bob, showed a detail that didn't show up well...the lower half of the 'a' end left front window is whited out.  unless you know the interior of the cab, it wouldn't be obvious.  when we were discussing bob's cab, ray mentioned that this particular window is usually painted red on the lower half (it's the toilet).  the funny thing is that in just about all of the research material, the 'necessaries' cabinet is in the 'b' end.  so i went hunting again...flickr...and bob was right!  i found some interior shots of an ic cab...everything is just as bob would have remembered it.
 
to all:  with each new project i do, the research grows more and more important...and fun!  educatiing yourself is key to producing a good job.
 
here's the work done today...just as ray and i talked...this is a new technique for me.  usually, i mount the cupola atop the roof structure.  for the ic caboose, it becomes part of the roof assembly and acts to transmit any 'extraneous' person's weight down to the foundation and steel underframe.  there's still alot of work left on the roof members before it is assembled, but you can see how it is coming together.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #733 on: Sep 20th, 2008, 7:26pm »
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hi all,
 
in this next photo, you can see from the 'b' end that the roof supports run through the cupola end.  the cupola end sits atop an interior wall...also visible.  this lends support to the whole structure.  it still means that when the roof is removed, you have access to any part of the car.  
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #734 on: Sep 20th, 2008, 7:33pm »
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hi all,
 
here's the overall look of the ic caboose tonight!
 
enjoy,
 
moose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #735 on: Sep 21st, 2008, 8:13pm »
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hi all,
 
in an earlier post of the late Bob Flesch's ic cab didn't come out quite as i wanted it to.  his work is an inspiration!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose



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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #736 on: Sep 21st, 2008, 9:41pm »
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hi al,
 
it's been a busy day 'out' side of the shop.  the cupola has been mocked-up and most of the internal bracing has been installed.  the two internal walls have been fitted and are ready for some additional work.  when this car is complete, the roof will come away in a single section revealing the interior.  btw, ray, your going to need a motorcycle battery(s) and small built in charger.  the spaces under the cupola will hide twin batteries.  soon i'll have to work out where the conduit runs and where to place the controls.
 
if ray wasn't excited before, the following picture should send him in orbit!
 
enjoy,
 
moose


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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #737 on: Sep 21st, 2008, 9:51pm »
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hi all,
 
here's another view from the 'a' end.  you can just about see the two internal walls.  when the cupola is completed, i can then assemble and finish fit the roof into a single unit.  for now, i'll continue working on mainbody parts.  not too far down the road, i'll have to build the underframe.
 
enjoy,
 
moose


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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #738 on: Sep 21st, 2008, 9:55pm »
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hi all,
 
last pic of the night!  here's the battery box!
 
enjoy,
 
moose


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #739 on: Sep 21st, 2008, 10:05pm »
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If Ray don't want it, I'll send the paint masks for the Clam Lake! I'll need a derelict for a yard office. Just set her on some cribbing and plant rhubarb around her.
 
If the guv-mint ever outlaws blue tape, yer outta business!!
 
Greg B.


« Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2008, 10:08pm by pockets » Logged


Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
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