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Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #680 on: Mar 20th, 2008, 3:14pm »
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hi all,
 
sorry that i haven't posted in a while.  i'm still waiting on the ej&e and wm cabooses to return.  the ej&e for renovating into another railroad and the wm for some untimely repairs.  the owner of the wm couldn't make it down from 'up north' this past year, so some of his buddies tried to help him out.  they moved the wm in an open trailer at god-knows-what speed.  why does it matter?  because they forgot that the cupola was only temporarily attached until a lighting system could be installed.  something they will soon NOT forget...something that is best remembered....if you break it, you buy it, you fix it, or pay for the fix to it!  since most of our equipment is handmade, it amazes me that some folks handle it sooo roughly and without care.  it ain't by fisher-price!
 
when those two projects are complete, i've still another 'old' project waiting in the wings to finish for you folks.  after that, i'll move on to some rather large projects.
 
moose the caboose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #681 on: Mar 20th, 2008, 8:40pm »
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  Friends,
 
   I'm bringing the photo of George T's in reply 678 forward for many, many reasons. In that one pic, is encompassed so much endeavor, ability, dreams and accomplishments of so many really tallented live steamer/builders/refurbishers. Even I was surprised at whats in this one photo.
 
   On the left is the coaling tower being scratch built By Les and Marve, in the backround is the trestle, a testament to the dream and engineering abilities of Pete B., my Atlantic, which I probably would not have running if it were not for Ben Schneider. Behind the 4-4-2 is a John Cassady gon, John was a respected pioneer in Florida live steaming. The newly refurbished caboose, done by George T. Behind them is the string of five out of seven passenger cars built by Ben Schneider,  behind them is a brand new, scratch built riding car, just rolled out of the car barn that day, built by Peter B. And finally, the round house project, spear headed and in the process of being scratch built by Bobby T.
 
   Until I took the time to really look at this photo, I did'nt realize how much was compressed into it. Thankyou George for catching all these memories of Florida live steaming in one snap shot.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #682 on: May 16th, 2008, 6:52pm »
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hi all,
 
time slips by quickly...too quickly.   the afore-mentioned cabs haven't returned yet, so time marches on.  with all the sad events happening over the last months and years, it's given me time for pause.  the shop has been quiet for the last 2 months, unusally so, but the tools haven't fallen silent.  a slight mishap by one of my children(no injuries) triggered a complete re-model of our master bathroom.  needless to say, i'd rather be back out in the shop.
 
time away has also given me time to reminisce.  in doing so, i've plowed through many, many, many boxes of old photographs and found a few that i wanted to share with you.  bruce r, pockets, bobby, tom c, and all the rest of the usual cast of characters that regularly post here on railfan, frequently get asked 'how do i get into the hobby?'  the long and the short of it is, just do it!  you can only eat the elephant one bite at a time.  it also helps to have a mentor to guide you in 'cooking' your elephant.  well, beginning in 1994, i wanted to do it.  bruce r knows that i've been in the hobby as a youngster since the early 1970's, but couldn't or wouldn't afford to 'pay' the piper until the desire for equipment became sooo strong until i couldn't stand it anymore.   bruce r and ben s were regular sights on the lakeland track and  their friendship was part of the reason i went to largo.  bruce's goose proved to me that i could take 'stuff' cast off by others, a lot of hard work, and a little imagination to create something both unique, reliable, and wonderful...and uniquely me.  yes, i got laughed at by a lot of people, but i could hold my head up and ask 'where's yours?'
 
 
the tram engine motif was chosen because my kids were small and my wife hoarded her 'egg' money to purchase the wheels and bearings.  times were tight so i'll ever thank my dear wife for helping in my 'addiction'.  the rest of the loco was built from wood, scrap steel, cast-off lawnmowers, an old bedsheet, and theatrical lighting dimmer handles.
 
when people tell me how much they like my work...the details, the construction, and stuff, i think back to my first project.
 
bruce r, thanks for bringing the healing memories to the forefront.
 
for the rest of you folks, here's a look at my first project.  it wasn't the engine of my dreams, but it was the 'elephant' small enough for me to 'consume.'  it was the beginning of some life-long friendships and the start of my journey.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose
 
on Mar 20th, 2008, 3:14pm, moose_the_caboose wrote:       (Click here for original message)
hi all,
 
sorry that i haven't posted in a while.  i'm still waiting on the ej&e and wm cabooses to return.  the ej&e for renovating into another railroad and the wm for some untimely repairs.  the owner of the wm couldn't make it down from 'up north' this past year, so some of his buddies tried to help him out.  they moved the wm in an open trailer at god-knows-what speed.  why does it matter?  because they forgot that the cupola was only temporarily attached until a lighting system could be installed.  something they will soon NOT forget...something that is best remembered....if you break it, you buy it, you fix it, or pay for the fix to it!  since most of our equipment is handmade, it amazes me that some folks handle it sooo roughly and without care.  it ain't by fisher-price!
 
when those two projects are complete, i've still another 'old' project waiting in the wings to finish for you folks.  after that, i'll move on to some rather large projects.
 
moose the caboose



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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #683 on: May 16th, 2008, 7:09pm »
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hi all,
 
here's a look at another shot of the tram engine underway with my son at the controls.  the engine was slow and simple.  by the time the photos were taken, i'd re-engined to a 5 hp bs engine.  with me aboard, it pulled 5 t-riders with adults up the old grade at the lakeland track.  i'll add that the track was being repaired at the top of the grade and i was forced to stop at the midway point of the grade...as a joke.  the crowd at the top figured i couldn't pull it and have to back down the grade over a curving trestle.  sure fooled them when i sloooowly, ever so slooooowly got it to dig in and claw it's way up the grade.  the body of this engine is still in the shop.  i just can't bare to throw it out.
 
enjoy the look back in my journey,
 
moose the caboose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #684 on: May 17th, 2008, 7:38pm »
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   Holy cow, Geoge, do I remember those long gone days. Great to see those old pics. Some good memories there. And, thanks for the compliment about the Goose.  
 
   I only wish that some of our newer posters here would go back into some of the past threads for info. Goodness knows, theres plenty there.
Includeing your very detailed info about building car bodys.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #685 on: May 22nd, 2008, 7:21pm »
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hi all,
 
the wm caboose has finally made it back to the shop.  i knew that it would require 'some' repair, but i was quite taken by surprise at how much damage had been done.  the cupola was wrecked to the point of needing to be thrown out and a completely new one built.  nor was i ready for all the 'incidental' damage from those who apparently (not that it surprizes me) don't know how to manage a 'model'.  much of the pretty brasswork has to be re-created, one of the step-units was 'removed', one of the ladder hoops was mangled, and sections of the roofwork will need to be repaired.  this caboose, seen on this thread, was completed and delivered more than 16 months ago to an absentee owner.  it was safe-kept by one group, but moved to another group's site back in december.  the damage to the cupola was done in-transit.  the incidental damage was done over a period of just 5 months by group 2.  just months to destroy almost a year's worth of work.
 
the damaged cupola i can abide because the people who transported it in an open trailer didn't know anything about how the model was constructed.  they've received their 'ten' lashes for their failure to observe the car structure or contact me.   believe me, they'll use care and better judgment in transporting real models from now on.  
 
the incidental damage done to the car while in supposed 'safe' storage at group 2's facility is outrageous.  they must belly-up to their responsibilities of handling equipment, anybody's equipment, before they will be trusted by any equipment buider in the future.  that is the lesson that anyone entering the hobby must learn as well.  remember, if you break it... you repair it, you buy it, you replace it or you pay for the repair.  how ever it happens, it will be devilishly expensive.  don't have the money for repairs?  the cheapest approach is use caution when handling or don't touch it at all, leave the equipment for the owner/builder to handle.  as soon as i get my camera problems solved, i'll be forwarding the pictures to the owner for his approval to do the repairs.  i'll also post them here to illustrate what careless and thoughtless handling can do.  the expense of this series of repairs will be a shocker for group 2.  a lesson learned the hard way is one not soon forgotten...let's hope they do.
 
if it hasn't dawned on you by now, i'm damned angry.  i put a lot of myself in everything i build.  those folks who have 'my' equipment know that i'll always do my best to keep their cars in good repair.  accidents do happen.  the fellow who has the wm caboose, also has several other cars from me.  he was greatly distressed a couple of years ago to find one of them missing, but appreciative of the fact that i found some damage on it and took it home for repair.  if you look back through this thread, you'll see that repair.  
 
bruce r:  please let pete and the gang know how much i really appreciate the opportunities to visit and allowed to be a part of the bcrr.  where builders gather and help one another.  where original workpieces are treated with utmost care.  where knowledge is freely shared.  where respect is earned by hard work, not by the mouth or cheque book.
 
moose


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #686 on: May 22nd, 2008, 8:39pm »
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I fervently hope that some of the checkbook and platinum card members of group 2 read this. (They know who they are) George has used great restraint and diplomacy in his vent, above. I have heard, and agree with, the unabridged version, live, if you will.
 
For the new, and some of the not so new, to the hobby: Your assistance with loading, unloading and occasionally rerailing is frequently appreciated. Don't just grab, or push, on the most convenient part of the model. I have seen handrails, cut levers and a cab roof mangled by overzealous "helpers". If you are not intimately aquainted with that piece of equipment, ask the owner where to apply pressure. He and your wallet will appreciate it. Think about it, for a minute...Where would you grab that Berk that Jack Bodenman recently completed, or Pete Bialeckie's Mohawk?
 
The hobby is maturing and the detail level is improving every day. Builders, particularly narrow gaugers, are building more and more prototypically correct equipment. Tom Casper and George Taylor are two, from this board. Admitedly, Tom's stuff, so far, is more robust because of the scale, but it won't tolerate (proportionally) any more abuse than George's models or the prototype.
 
Just my $0.02,
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
B+MNW21201
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #687 on: May 22nd, 2008, 9:14pm »
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George this is very disappointing to hear. I know you must be angry as well as hurt to the point of taking this damage as a personal insult. I have come to know you well enough, as others here do also, to know that each of your cars are like your children. That each is a piece of you, an extension of your care and creativity. Just like any other artist or sculpter, you like to know your works are being cared for and admired for the enjoyment of others.  
 
Bobby


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rsrlon
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #688 on: May 22nd, 2008, 11:20pm »
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George,
 
If you are writing about the caboose I thinks you is, then I would certainly hope that some would take the respect they have (or should have) for both the owner and builder to heart when handling it.  I have always been taught to ask before lifting, check with the owner or operator for the safest way to go. If you're not sure, then lift by the trucks and, above all, be careful!  Don't save yourself a few seconds by costing someone else hours, days, even weeks of work.
 
Lon


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #689 on: Jun 6th, 2008, 4:25pm »
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hi all,
 
thanks for all  your support in the recent past.  it's hard to watch someone mis-treat a piece of equipment whether i or someone else built it.  just doesn't make sense to me.  going forward....
 
i wanted to show you a photo that i ran across recently that in using it as a comparison tool, you can see that doing a restoration/rebuild really can maintain the 'feel' of the original work piece.
 
the photo below is of bruce r's erie atlantic 7597 and the erie caboose...on a night run no less.  even to us that know the erie caboose well, there was a simplistic beauty  to it even then.  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose



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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #690 on: Jun 6th, 2008, 4:53pm »
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moose the caboose
 
hi all,
 
here's the other photo.  this one taken at delivery last february.  yes, there's a lot more to see, but you have to be close enough to notice.  the simple lines of the original car are still there.  the erie caboose isn't a true scale model, but does represent a nice balance between utilitarian plywood box and highly detailed model charicature.  the erie caboose is a model to be proud of...it was even before i got a hold of it.  
 
my point in all this is to show that following the form follows function approach the 1-to-1 railroads used, will allow a higher level of detail to be applied to our 1 1/2 inch or there abouts models to re-create even the 'plain-jane' look from the class 1 roads to the logging roads.   it's just more fun in the larger scales!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #691 on: Jun 23rd, 2008, 6:00pm »
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hi all,
 
unfortunately, i'm still renovating the bathroom for swmbo.  however, there's been a change in my build schedule.  the 2 1/2 inch scale cars will wait 'til early next year to start.  that gives me more time to advance my blueprints.  in their place, a new 1.6 inch scale caboose will rise.  this new railcar will be in conjunction with the repair of the wm.  i'm hoping to debut this new car on the bcrr in the not too distant future.  boy, will i need a new trailer to haul as the cabooses i want to take down there.  i'd like nothing else than to see an entire train of hacks!  
 
i wonder who could possibly want something like this one?!
 
stay tuned!
 
moose  


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SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #692 on: Jun 23rd, 2008, 7:11pm »
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George ,   That will be perfect.    Did they have any side doors with truss rods, or were they an earlier era?.    Ray III

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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #693 on: Jun 23rd, 2008, 7:33pm »
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hi all,
 
ray: judging by the research i've been doing, it's not hard to imagine that they started here (below) and as needs arose, went to the one pictured above.  the 9094 was rebuilt on a steel frame as was mandated for road-service interchange cars to end the accordian accidents evident with wood framed cars.  i'll keep looking for an example before i start.
 
btw, a tip'o'the hat to the guys on the ic boards at yahoo for their enthusiasm, data, and photographs.  they are going to be watching me like a hawk!  i hope they enjoy the journey.
 
 
moose
 
on Jun 23rd, 2008, 7:11pm, SteamHeaton wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George ,   That will be perfect.    Did they have any side doors with truss rods, or were they an earlier era?.    Ray III



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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #694 on: Jun 23rd, 2008, 10:30pm »
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Moosey,
Take another look at your last photo. On the left end, that overpass is late 40s to early 50s civil engineering and the car is post war. Cabees weren't intended for interchange, so they got a pass on a lot of FRA regs.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
Dan Watson
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #695 on: Jun 24th, 2008, 6:39pm »
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Moose,
I'll be very interested in this project too, since I have an IC mikado I'm working on.  Here's another photo I found which may be of some use to you:
 
http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/LHP&CISOPTR=1356&CISOBOX=1&REC=12
 
Dan


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Dan Watson
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #696 on: Jun 26th, 2008, 8:10am »
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Moose,
On these IC cabooses with the high side door, was the purpose of the door to hand up train orders to the conductor (so he wouldn't have to go out on the end platform of a moving train)?  Obviously it wasn't for loading supplies, nor for entering or exiting the caboose.


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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #697 on: Jun 26th, 2008, 9:58pm »
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hi all,
 
dan:  many thanks for the photo find and link!  trolling the libraries is one of my favorite activities.  as to your question, i don't have a definitive answer...yet, but the knowledge i've gained tells me that while the ic was and continues to be a class 1 operation, their roots were in branchline operations.  from steaminheaton and others, i've learned that they went anywhere and carried anything that turned a buck (mail, prisoners, passengers, the occaisional horse, package goods...).  the side doors make sense when seen from a station platform (think mail and express package service).  many smaller railroads did this as an after thought, especially lines with little or no scheduled passenger service.  the ic and it's predecessor lines made it part of their service to the communities they served.  i'm no expert, nor do i play one on tv, but pondering your question and digging into history is a heck of a lot of fun!
 
moose
 
on Jun 26th, 2008, 8:10am, Dan Watson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Moose,
On these IC cabooses with the high side door, was the purpose of the door to hand up train orders to the conductor (so he wouldn't have to go out on the end platform of a moving train)?  Obviously it wasn't for loading supplies, nor for entering or exiting the caboose.



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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #698 on: Aug 23rd, 2008, 8:09pm »
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hi all,
 
yes, it's been a while since i last posted here...there's this pesky home re-model project under way.  that however doesn't mean things aren't being done!  you see, there's this ic caboose that wants to be scaled out and drawn on top of another pet project of mine...building archbar trucks!  no, i don't have a set done yet, research and development take time.  
 
early on, i made a promise to myself that i would show my work, even work-in-progress for all to see.  there are plenty of people who only show their best work.  you'll never see how they got there.  whether my work succeeds or fails, i hope you can follow my journey and learn as i learn.  i started thinking about archbar trucks a couple of years ago.  i'm partial to railroading as it was from the 1860's to the 1890's, as such, there's not a lot of equipment around to choose from.  no matter, i'll build what i want anyway, but what's missing is a decent archbar truck.  with pockets' conjammerin' supporting me, i've set out to give it a try.  initially, i thought it would be as simple as bending up some barstock and puttin' 'er together...wrong!  well, the barstock is the almost easy part...i started looking around for journal boxes that were appropriate for the time period.  in short, i couldn't find any i liked.  enter in a new friend in the new port richey area...a fellow whose hobby is home foundry work!  between pockets and the new fellow, i'm learning to put some old foam carving skills to work.  over the next year, i'll be experimenting with several casting techniques to see if i can produce a journal box casting that i'm happy with.
 
the journey begins now!
 
in the photo below, you can see the progression (beginning from the left) from the wooden pattern that i did just to see if i could do on a jigsaw(posted here many moons ago) to the first try out of florist foam to the one that i was working on today.  btw, the foam IS fragile, but white glue heals it nicely!  the last pattern isn't done yet, there's still a long way to go.  it still needs a pour-gate and vent for escaping air.  the finished patterns will be coated with a thin gypsum slip, and then a thicker slip.  when the pattern is stable, it will be put into a casting box and casting sand compacted around it.  this particular method is the lost foam method.  when the casting metals hit the foam, the foam burns away and the metals take its place.  the problem with this method?  each pattern has to be hand-made, meaning that no two will be exactly alike...unless i can find a way to automate it.  it's more art than science.
 
enjoy the fun!
 
ray, the ic starts building tomorrow!
 
moose


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SteamHeaton
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #699 on: Aug 23rd, 2008, 10:35pm »
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George, neat stuff,  looking forward to updates on this.   It looks like alot of time  was spent on those patterns.     Ray III

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