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Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Author  Topic: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose  (Read 29042 times)
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #500 on: Aug 18th, 2007, 8:47pm »
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hi all,
 
with the fake door insert gone, the door openings will be re-framed for some panel doors.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #501 on: Aug 19th, 2007, 5:39pm »
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hi all,
 
even though the demolition continues, the cupola windows are being modified to accept the window units that you've seen me use in the past.  all the windows should be modified and ready by the end of the week.  when the caboose has been reduced to it's basic structure, then the actual rebuilding can begin.   the body will be sanded and filled, because the new support structure won't depend on the nails and screws currently in place.
 
i'll post some pictures tomorrow...'til then!
 
moose the caboose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #502 on: Aug 19th, 2007, 7:24pm »
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   George,
 
   First of all, not to emmbarras you, but I want all here to know how much I appreciate you taking on this project for me.  
 
   Secondly, as with so much of my "stuff" there is a story. That I hope will put a smile on a face or two. And here it is.
 
   As can be seen in the photo of the rear end of my Erie caboose, the back wall next to the door is slightly ascue from the other side. Here is how this happened.
Our dear departed friend/live steamer Ben Schneider has three of his passenger cars with him at a very nice but steeply graded track in N. Carolina. I also was there with me, Erie 7597, a few of my freight cars, includeing the Erie caboose.
 
   At some point in the four day visit, Ben made the suggestion that we tie the passenger cars behind my freight train. For a heavy train and make 7597 really talk on some of the grades. I agreed and made up the train in the yard. And off we went.
Smoke boiling out of the stack of Erie Atlantic, and the cars rumbling along behind.
Ben was rideing in my John Cassady gon about two cars ahead of the caboose so he could enjoy the ride.
 
   Up this hill and down that one we went, engine talking up a storm, me shoveling coal to beat the band. All of a sudden, as we rounded a curve with a number of switches in it, I could hear boom, bank, crunch, and Ben yelling "Bruce we're on the ground".
 
   OK, we stop. At first nothing looked too bad. Then I notice the front coupler of Ben's lead coach punched squarely through the back wall of my caboose. The door was just hanging there, the railings were like pretzels. And the passenger car was jammed tight into the caboose wood work.  
 
   After some work and a few choice words, we extricated the heavy passenger car from the back end of my humble caboose, checked everything for tracking, recoupled and went on our way. The damn thing never came off again. To this day, I don't know why that passenger car found it's way, up on and close to inside my poor old Erie caboose. Well, that is how that back wall got slid in "cattywampus" to the wall on the other side of the door.
 
   George, now you know the whole story.
 
   Take care,  
 
   Bruce


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  erie_legacy_caboose_8-20-07_003.jpg - 62184 Bytes
« Reply #503 on: Aug 20th, 2007, 9:18pm »
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hi all,
 
the inspection and analysis continues on the legacy erie caboose.   the deeper i go, the more 'history' i find!  one of the problems i uncovered goes back to the original builder...who must have been a hot-rodder!  the 'a' end is lower than the 'b' end.  had me wondering until i found the old motor mounts for a large block v-8 and happened to notice three strange marks on the bottom of the 'a' end roof...kindda look like it sat atop a high-rise manifold with 3 dueces.   this caboose has all the earmarks of a tim taylor-like creation!  as i looked further, i found evidence of body extender rails, nitro tank bracket, and traction bars on the 'b' end.  i'm afraid to inspection the rear trucks, they look a little slick and smell a little like bleach.  hmm!  lololo!
 
bruce:  you're very welcome!  as i've said before, you, ben, and a couple others have been my mentors for years.  this project is an absolute labor of love.  you've taught so many folks to fire steam engines and how to effectively handle heavy trains that i've wanted to find a way to return the energy you've given...so here's my way to say 'thank you'!  
 
one day, i may be lucky enough to be called upon to restore some of ben's equipment and i will have come full circle with those who put so much energy into teaching and encouraging me in my journey.
 
to all:  tomorrow begins the next step in this renewal of the erie legacy caboose.   the photo below may look like total destruction, but it is the beginning of the rise of the phoenix.  the photo also shows how simple the railcar structure can be.  most everything can be done with homeowner type tools, nothing really specialized.  this railcar was originally designed to be built by beginners.  it is both simple and enduring.  with a little bit of research and patience, it can also be detailed to be a unique railcar.
 
being unique and built by you, makes it yours, not a cookie cutter car.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #504 on: Aug 20th, 2007, 10:04pm »
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   HOLY MACKERAL moosey, it looks like and explosion!!! Oh, we did'nt mention the WOODEN trucks that are under the Erie caboose. Yes folks, I said WOODEN trucks. But thats another story.
 
   Thanks ahead of time George for you efforts. I appreciate it.
 
   Bruce


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #505 on: Aug 20th, 2007, 10:24pm »
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Moose & Bruce,
I'm a little surprised at the California rake. I tought yous East Coast guys wuz inter tail draggers.....
 
I'm glad that Moosey finally got into this car. He's been chomping at the bit for a long while, now. It'll be a sweetheart, when it's finished.
 
Greg B.


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  erie_legacy_caboose_8-21-07_001.jpg - 70280 Bytes
« Reply #506 on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:12pm »
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hi all,
 
bruce:  do you remember the scene from the movie 'butch cassidy and the sundance kid' where they blow up the baggage car?!!!!  well.....lol!  
 
to all:  the truth is that this is about doing a good restoration.  there are any number of changes that i would liked to have done, but they aren't germaine to the restoration.   as the railcar was originally designed and built, the doorway doesn't match prototypical practice...its too tall (scale 6' 8"), where as most prototypes are 6' 3" or 6' 4".  the other flaw is that the roof pitch is too steep.  it may not seem like much, but the eye picks up on the visual cues.  most (full size) cabooses measure no more than 6" from the top of the door to the under side of the roof(most old wooden cabooses are 4").  yes, there are always exceptions to the rule, but this restoration is about a piece of live steam history that has earned every bit of character attributed to it.
 
so what changes will i be making?  this caboose is an early model from mcc.  the models that came later had doors that would swing on hinges.  it will also recieve semi-detailed windows rather than the framing it has now, note, mcc didn't do detailed windows.  the erie caboose will be updated to a new standard.  all of the mcc cabooses had roofs made from 1/8" plywood on a 1x?x? frame.  they didn't do any detailing other than adding an over-scale catwalk.  in a departure from pure restoration, the erie will receive a new set of roofs made from planking as i've done in the past.  instead of just being painted, the roof will be 'tar-papered' for a more scale look.  the catwalk and roof details will be a little more scale in appearance.  the grabirons will be 1/16" rod instead of 1/8".  the underbody toolboxes will be a little more detailed as they appear on later model mcc cars.  the most functional change though, is the addition of shaped steel endsills that will be welded to the centersill.  this one change will allow direct mounting of safety chain eye-bolts to the endsill without additional support behind it.  this is something that mcc has never done to my knowledge.  
 
bruce:  i will be sending the pattern for the 2 endsills sometime in the next 2  or 3 weeks.
 
here's a view of the work done today.  the left side has been partially sanded, the holes filled, and much of the siding repair work underway.
 
ya know, i kindda like the 'weathered' look.  i may actually try to build an old run-down, sway-back hack from scratch!
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/erie_legacy_caboose_8-21-07_001.jpg
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  erie_legacy_caboose_8-21-07_002.jpg - 68217 Bytes
« Reply #507 on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:19pm »
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hi all,
 
here's a closer view of the siding repair work.  anytime that you are working with sculptured plywood, you'll end up needing to repair the areas of the top ply that have been weakened or weren't glued properly.  in the case of the erie, time has taken it's toll.  with patience, its an easy fix.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  erie_legacy_caboose_8-21-07_003.jpg - 54775 Bytes
« Reply #508 on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:26pm »
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hi all,
 
the photo below is a closer look at the fill work on the nail holes.  when the wood filler has cured, it will be sanded smooth and any depressions filled again.  the idea is to not completely wipe out any existing character, but to create a more prototypical look.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #509 on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:39pm »
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hi all,
 
because i'm fitting to an existing railcar structure, the new support rails need to be fitted to the old.  in this photo, i'm doing just that.  the new support rail will not only stiffen the car's foundation, but create a new way to remove the car's body from the chassis if the need arises.  the 2 support rails are the only places that the car will be screwed together, and then only from the bottom.  with the screws removed, the body (carefully) should lift off the chassis.  unfortunately, the support rails will also add bulk to the interior, but should also aid in allaying damage if someone decides to sit on the car (it has happened, how ever strange it may seem).
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #510 on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:47pm »
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hi all,
 
with all the measurements transferred from the erie caboose, the support rail is glued into place.  when the glue has set, the siding will rejoin the rest of the caboose for fitting of the roof rail.  when all the filling and sanding has been completed, it will be primed and readied for painting, but...that's still a ways away.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #511 on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:53pm »
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hi all,
 
speaking of wooden trucks, here's a better view!  as much history as the erie caboose has, the trucks truly are a piece of live steam heritage.  and that's a great story for bruce to tell.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose



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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #512 on: Aug 21st, 2007, 8:56pm »
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oops!  here's a smaller version of the picture.
 
moose the caboose
 
on Aug 21st, 2007, 8:53pm, moose_the_caboose wrote:       (Click here for original message)
hi all,
 
speaking of wooden trucks, here's a better view!  as much history as the erie caboose has, the trucks truly are a piece of live steam heritage.  and that's a great story for bruce to tell.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose



http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/erie_legacy_caboose_8-21-07_016.jpg
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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #513 on: Aug 23rd, 2007, 10:07am »
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   George,
 
   Don't know if this fits here or not, but here goes. This is about those "old" trucks.
 
   The history of my set plus two other sets of the sme trucks goes back to the early seventy. Or maybe farthur back than that. This I don't know though. Yes, the bolsters are wooden, the jounal boxes are wooden with a bronze sleave bearing for the axle end to rotate in. The side frames are very light welded steel flat steel. I put the hard rubber blocks in to take the place of the wooden  blocks that long ago broke into pieces.
 
   To the best of my knowledge, these trucks were under equipment of the Link and Pin Railroad here in Florida. The was the railroad of a long time live steamer/model railroader by the name of Stan Parker who is long gone.  
 
   Stan Parker's flat car and work caboose are owned by Mike Keteltas with the original wooden trucks under them to this day. But I have no idea how the identicle trucks got under my caboose since it is an old mcc kit.
 
   I know that Mike has no intension of changeing the trucks under his Link and Pin equipment, and I certainly have no intension of changeing mine either. There is just too much Fl. live steam  history attached to them.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce  
 


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #514 on: Aug 25th, 2007, 7:00am »
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hi all,
 
i'm on the road to visit a newly rebuilt pacific loco of a friend.  i want to continue with the legacy erie by showing you the progress so far.  in the photo below, the interior surface of the siding was sanded clean and the new internal bracing has been added.  why sand the interior?  glue and most paints won't adhere to a dirty, greasy, or oily surface.  most railcars like this one are empty boxes and are thus capable of carrying just about everything needed while traveling or out on the track.  not many cabooses in the hobby have interiors for just that reason.  ya gotta have a place to put your stuff!  
 
the original caboose wasn't painted on the interior so why do that now?  because one the problems with the original roof was the seperation of the individual plies of the plywood.  as i said before, the car was designed to be a kit...one that was simple and easy, not that much detailing.  it was assumed that if you had the skills to take it further, you would.  most people stopped when the kit was assembled and painted.  without being sealed, even plywood is effected by by moisture.  and brother there's a lot of moisture in florida!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #515 on: Aug 25th, 2007, 7:07am »
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hi all,
 
i also wanted to show how the restoration is being done.  in the photo below, the 'a' end of the cupola is show just as it was removed from the carbody.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #516 on: Aug 25th, 2007, 7:10am »
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here it is again after the trim was removed and prior to sanding.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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« Reply #517 on: Aug 25th, 2007, 7:15am »
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hi all,
 
there's a lot more sanding and filling before it is ready for re-assembly, but here' a picture to show how it's going to look just prior to paint and new window installation.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/8-24-07_098.jpg
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ErieAtlantic7597
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« Reply #518 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 4:41pm »
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   George,
 
   I just re-read your last post with the picture of a certain old caboose. Man, there is no hurry to get that car back. Take all the time you need. Believe me, I sure can't do the kind of work that you are so good at, that the poor old thing needs. I appreciate you doing the restoration work on it. I hope it does'nt wear you out. It was pretty bad!!
 
   Thanks again,
 
   Bruce


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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #519 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 6:36pm »
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hi all,
 
bruce r -  not to worry.  i've repaired most of the damage done by the kit-bashing passenger car, but left enough to keep the memory alive.  there was more damage than previously thought, so i've taken the caboose all the way down to the frame.  that is going to add more time to the rebuild, but we will definitely have a 'swearing at' ceremony at the unmeet!  btw, you might want to find a nice pair of caboose lights to go with your new battery box and control system.  speaking of new additions, i still haven't figured out how to mount the seement block under the body...lolololo!  here's a photo of the progress.  the foundation board is finally clear!
 
to all - as many of you have guessed, bruce and i go back aways to the point that you had to use your imagination when looking at old parts to see what they really wanted to be.  to that end, bruce's 'goose' and my english tank engine came into being.  what we've both found that if you really want to do something, others will take delight and help you.  neither of us listened to those that thought 'well, you just can't do that.'  what i've learned personally is to be associated with people who build, operate, and maintain their equipment, rather buy it, play with it, and cast it aside like a miniature train set.  
 
to that end, that's why we just keep plugging away here on the railfan net.
 
on Aug 27th, 2007, 4:41pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   George,
 
   I just re-read your last post with the picture of a certain old caboose. Man, there is no hurry to get that car back. Take all the time you need. Believe me, I sure can't do the kind of work that you are so good at, that the poor old thing needs. I appreciate you doing the restoration work on it. I hope it does'nt wear you out. It was pretty bad!!
 
   Thanks again,
 
   Bruce



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