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Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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   Author  Topic: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose  (Read 29272 times)
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #240 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 7:32pm »
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hi all!
 
alex's bobber caboose is slowly coming to life!  some of the details are starting to emerge and show color.  here's a photo from today...pardon the mess!
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-21-06_001.jpg
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #241 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 7:36pm »
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hi all!
 
here's a side view.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-21-06_002.jpg
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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #242 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 9:06pm »
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George,
That hack is sure coming together nice. Alex is gonna be plumb tickled. I'm gonna call you and Bruce as soon as my phone book surfaces. For the forseeable, my life is in storage   ,but I think the book is with me, somewhere.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #243 on: Sep 22nd, 2006, 8:40pm »
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hi all!
 
greg, it is certainly good to have you back, and thanks for the compliment!
 
for those of you who've been watching the bobber caboose construction, you've noticed that the 'a' end cupola had more detail than the 'b' end.  well, today that changed.  i liked what happened with the 'b' end some much that i removed all the detail on the 'a' end and i'm now working to match the 'b' end.  here's a photo of the progress, i think you'll agree that the change was worth it.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-22-06_002.jpg
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
  howards_wabash_caboose_9-22-06_004.jpg - 46622 Bytes
« Reply #244 on: Sep 22nd, 2006, 8:59pm »
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hi all!
 
tonight, the repaired step-unit was reinstalled on the wabash caboose.  sometimes when wood is damaged, the break points don't necessarily go back together in book-match fashion.  at times, they need to be 'persuaded'.   the wabash caboose repair is that way.  here's a photo of the reinstalled step-unit prior to 'persuasion'.  i'm showing you this to be able to say perfection is sometimes more about fixing things than building anew.  when i'm done, you shouldn't be able to see any of the flaws or damaged sections.  if you do the repair properly, no one will be able to say that "he just put some lipstick on that pig!"
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/howards_wabash_caboose_9-22-06_004.jpg
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #245 on: Sep 25th, 2006, 7:17pm »
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hi all!
 
today, i finally got around to taking some more pictures of the bobber caboose.   the door cores have been hung on both the bobber and wabash cabooses.  i'll spend another day adding the skins and doing the final fit-up work before painting them.  
here's a picture of where the work stands now.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-25-06_001.jpg
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #246 on: Sep 25th, 2006, 7:30pm »
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hi all!
 
the other day, i posted a picture of the 'b' end cupola.  here's how the 'a' end turned out.  just a couple of things left to do on the 'a' end before the cupola is ready for paint!
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-25-06_8.jpg
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
  alexs_bobber_caboose_9-28-06_009.jpg - 58623 Bytes
« Reply #247 on: Sep 28th, 2006, 7:14pm »
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hi all!
 
the cupola is almost done.  here's a photo it how it's taking shape.
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-28-06_009.jpg
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #248 on: Sep 28th, 2006, 7:22pm »
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hi all!
 
in a fit of creativity, i changed my mind about what step-units to use.  the curved units just didn't lend a look that i was happy with...so the angled ones it will be!  here's a look.
 
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-28-06_016.jpg
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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #249 on: Sep 28th, 2006, 7:36pm »
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hi all!
 
if you are wondering how i put the step-units together, here's how.  when the unit sides are cut out, they are sanded and shaped together to form a bookmatched pair.  they are temporarily laid aside while the butt-block(a block of wood which will form the back of the top step.  it also butts up to the foundation board for stability.) is hand-fitted to the individual stairwell.  a just barely snug fit does it.  with that done, the pieces are moved to a home-made jig.  because of the small differences in how things are cut out, i glue one side at a time.  the jig is just a right angle on a flat board...easy to do.  don't forget to mark each step-unit for the stairwell it goes to.  and don't forget to use a plastic cling-wrap like saran wrap to keep the glue from going places you don't want. here's a look.
 
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-28-06_001.jpg
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« Last Edit: Sep 28th, 2006, 7:41pm by moose_the_caboose » Logged

obwan
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #250 on: Sep 28th, 2006, 9:47pm »
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Hey moose,
 
You do absolutely beautiful work! I've really been enjoying your progress here, thanks so much for sharing this.
 
How much does a car made this way weigh? I guess that my real question is how well does a car like this stay on the tracks?
 
I'm a real newbie here just starting out. I don't know yet which directions I'll take in constructing things, but these pictures and your descriptions are a real inspiration. I don't have a lot of metalworking skills, but I do like to play with wood and this looks like something I might like to try.
 
Robert


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #251 on: Sep 28th, 2006, 10:33pm »
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Obwan,
I'm gonna run my face into this one, with apologies to Moosey.
 
There are two schools of thought on this. One requires relatively massive amounts of ballast ( cement blocks, lead bars, etc.). The other makes use of a properly tuned suspension.  
 
I prefer the later. Most large scale models are W-A-Y too stiffly sprungand the trucks tend to bind in the bolster and spring plank interface surfaces with the sideframes.
 
Bobber suspensions are horses of another shade. The variations, from railroad to railroad as well as chronologically, are legion. When all else fails, just remember that the prototype worked! keep it soft, loose and well lubed.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #252 on: Sep 29th, 2006, 6:58pm »
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hi obwan,
 
 
thanks for your compliments on my work.  while my work is uniquely mine, i didn't try and re-invent the wheel.  i have been blessed with talking to, looking over the shoulder, and learning from folks like bruce, ben, greg, and a few others about how they built their equipment.  bruce was the first to impress upon me the need to share this hobby with others.  bruce and greg are in large part, why this thread is here.  
 
as to your question, greg's right, there are two schools of thought on this.  central premise is to create a railcar that rides or 'reads' the track just as the 1-to-1's do.  full size railcars 'read' track whether they are fully laden or empty.  in the live steam scales, we have to recreate the same ability...and frequently don't!  a railcar has to have mass.  most people build a very light railcar thinking that the weight of the trucks will keep it on the track...they are usually wrong!  what do they usually do to fix the problem?  as greg suggested -  add any thing with weight...lead, concrete blocks, etc.   the weight needs to be above the suspension creating downward pressure.  his other suggested method is also correct....to a point(this is where we differ from time to time).  a properly tuned suspension is necessary, but even that won't fix a problem if there is no weight above the springs.  too light a suspension rides like a fishing bobber on the water.  too stiff a suspension rides like a bad headache.  springs, whether they are leaf or coil, must be variable rate(usually they are).  the first distance travelled should be with light downward pressure.  as the spring compresses, it should stiffen.  you can tune a leaf spring by removing leaves and replacing with spacers until you get the ratio you need.  coil springs can be just as easy if you pay attention to the springs in use.  most coil springs are designed to be stiff at each end and softer in the middle(more coils at the end and fewer in the middle).  if this is the case with your springs, nipping a quarter-a-turn at a time will allow you to slowly test and finally arrive at the spring tension you need.  don't forget to replace the thickness of spring you removed to make sure that the overall dimensions remain the same.
 
the easy way out of nip-tuning suspensions is to add more weight.  for railcars with average sprung trucks from the various venders, i start with 20 lbs of lead and build from there until i get the amount of spring travel needed for a good riding car.  most the of the railcars i build use from 32 to 60 lbs of weight.   without an engineering degree, i have to 'feel' for it rather than work it out on a computer(or heaven's to betsy, a slide rule).  
 
i am delighted that you are going to try a project for youself.  please consider posting in this thread the efforts of your journey.  as i've said before, with each new project i do, i try to do something to challenge myself to do better.  with each new project you do, we're here to help you any way we can(well, greg's right, shove is more like it!).
 
moose the caboose  
 


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #253 on: Sep 29th, 2006, 7:52pm »
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Ooookay, Gang. I'm gonna really lay my neck on the block with this one. In 1.6" scale and smaller, if you want to haul people build cattle cars ( T-riders)! Keep their butts out of gons. They're a PITA to get in and out of without dumping them.
 
That way you can tune your suspension for a constant weight. Cars, of a type, will be similar in weight. George is right, to a point, about mass. You build the suspension to handle the mass in front of you. Adding mass to force a poorly designed suspension to work is, in my opinion, counter productive.
 
I am a firm believer in soft springs. Rule 1 in chassis design is to use no more spring rate than is necessary to carry the weight. Ask any engineer from ACF to Porsche. Clipping springs, per George's suggestion, MAY work if you have coils wound that way. The majority of the springs you encounter, in this hobby, are straight wound. They are, usually die stripper springs or valve springs, of one type or another. If you start clipping them, they get stiffer. Just ask any old hot rodder....
 
Tuning leaf springs, per George's suggestion, will work. The Brits use a Formica type material as replacement spacers. I have used Teflon strips with good results.
 
George, the axe is in your hand  
Greg B


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #254 on: Oct 1st, 2006, 9:29pm »
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hi all,
 
as many of you have guessed, pockets and i talk all the time.  he usually goads me, prods me, yells at me, screams at me, jokes with me...and we have a blast doing it!  most of all, we learn from each other.  i build in 1.5 to 2.5 inch scales and he's jumping into 3 3/4 inch scale.  the difference between what i do and what he's doing is that he can actually build working parts where in my scales, they are far too delicate to accomplish what they were built for.  pockets is right, the hobby really should be fine-tuning the suspensions to fit the situation, rather than throwing weight at it.  for the projects that i build, the trucks and couplers are provided to me by the person(s) that are requesting the project.  the rolling gear isn't mine...i don't mess with it unless my expertise is needed to solve a problem.  that happened recently on the commissary car project.
 
for my personal projects, yes i do 'tune' the suspension.  as greg rightly pointed out, the hobby vendors went to a single rate spring on their trucks.  you can't tune them by nipping.  a trip to the local mom-and-pop hardware store could turn up some springs of the right dimension and softer deflection rate that will do the job.  if you've got the trucks already, you might as well experiment.  a better riding railcar is in the offing if you do.
 
this past weekend has been busy, here's a photo of where the bobber caboose is on it's way to being finished.
 
enjoy,
 
moose the caboose


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/alexs_bobber_caboose_9-30-06_002.jpg
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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #255 on: Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:01am »
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Back in the'50s, you could get Fords in that paint scheme; sort of a Salmon and Ivory two tone... Can't wait to see some detail shots of the under carriage!
 
All kidding aside, that's a fine looking model headed for a good home.
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
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« Reply #256 on: Oct 2nd, 2006, 9:37pm »
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hi pockets!
 
i found a photo just for you!  here's an over-carriage shot!
 
enjoy!
 
moose the caboose
 
 
 
on Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:01am, pockets wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Back in the'50s, you could get Fords in that paint scheme; sort of a Salmon and Ivory two tone... Can't wait to see some detail shots of the under carriage!
 
All kidding aside, that's a fine looking model headed for a good home.
 
Greg B.



http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/Copy_of_alexs_ford_bobber_caboose_9-30-06_003.jpg
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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #257 on: Oct 3rd, 2006, 4:32pm »
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That's great, George! All that's missing is the green tinted glass roof and chrome basket handle and it could be a '56 Crown Vicky....
 
Greg B.


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Mechanical engineers build weapons, whereas civil engineers build targets.

When the man at the door said," Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms", I, naturally assumed it was a delivery!
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #258 on: Oct 8th, 2006, 4:41pm »
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hi all,
 
i was able to get back into the shop for a little while today.  i will take pictures tomorrow of the results.
 
thanks for your patience,
 
moose the caboose


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ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Cabaoose
 
« Reply #259 on: Oct 9th, 2006, 2:50pm »
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   Guys,
 
   If I was smart, which I ain't, I should stay out of this.......But.  As Greg stated, suspension is a key element to rideable scale cars staying on the tracks. And they need to be build to componsate for their purpose. He mentioned the "cattle 'T' cars"
which were developed just to ride the public on. Good heavy duty trucks are needed, plus stiff springs due to the wieght intended to carry. But the truck needs to
"read" the rails. No two truck car can rest on all three bolster points. This situation which I have seen in this hobby is a derailment looking for a place to happen. The car has to rock somewhat on the trucks. Too soft springs, with too much weight, causes the truck bolster to "bottom out" and become solid. Again, at this point the truck can't read the imperfections in the rails.
 
   The bobber on the other hand, needs soft enough suspension that the wheels can accept all of the inequities of the rail. And believe me, no matter how much work one puts into the railroad, notheing is perfect. Low joints happen. The trick is to have the wheels drop into the low joints without going airborn. If that happens, and the flange clears the head of the rial, the guidance system is gone. Derailment time.
 
   Sorry George, and Greg for stealing the thread. But you guys know what a nut I am about wheels staying on the tracks.
 
   Take care,
 
   Bruce


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