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Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
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Dan Watson
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1000 on: Nov 24th, 2010, 2:10pm »
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This thread has been inactive for awhile, so I thought I would "goose the moose" with this photo I stumbled across.  ACFX-built in June, 1906.  Dig that nifty baggage door!


« Last Edit: Nov 24th, 2010, 2:13pm by Dan Watson » Logged
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1001 on: Nov 24th, 2010, 7:46pm »
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hi all,
 
dan:  she's a beauty!  where did you find her?  just wish i knew someone who wanted a gm&o hack!  keep the info coming!   ...and thank you for thinking of me.  
 
to all:  this thread may be slipping down a little, but after feb-march, a new project will emerge.  at the moment, i'm still doing my research.  'til then...
 
moose


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Dan Watson
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  caboose_2_resize_jpg.jpg - 55051 Bytes
« Reply #1002 on: Nov 24th, 2010, 9:05pm »
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Moose,
Right click the photo, then select "properties", and you will see this link:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/mo-c138asw.jpg
 
Change this to: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/acf-h.html for the index.
There's a ton of photos there (ACF builder's photos).
 
Actually, if you are looking for a project, I recommend this caboose (my favorite) that later became a Columbus and Greenville caboose, and which I had the opportunity to ride about 1969.  This photo is pre-1918.  I have LOTS of photos and even some drawings.  (hint hint)


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/caboose_2_resize_jpg.jpg
Click Image to Resize

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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1003 on: Dec 12th, 2010, 2:53pm »
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hi all,
 
this thread has gone silent for a time, but it will soon be time start a new project just for the railfan folks.  more info below.
 
dan:  thank you for your input...as pockets and i have discussed, it is interesting to know that others enjoy doing research as much as building equipment as we do.  education is as much a part of the journey in live steaming as any other endeavor.  pockets says frequently that i'm 'stuck in a rut' when it comes to cabooses...he's right of course!  i just like'em 'cause they are so unique to each railroad.  the g&m and southern cabs that you've posted are wonderful examples...and yes, i've scarfed them up for my archives!  keep'em comin' as ya find'em.
 
to all:  as time moves forward, pockets and i are reshaping the 'edumakashun' thread as a repository of original source material.  as we find useful records of historic importance, we post links to them there.  please understand the transitory environment of the internet.  if you don't grab the info as posted, in time it may not be there.  links do die.  for those who follow along with us, we want you to have access to the same material that we uncover.  if you find links to library materials that are freely shared by them (not pirated), post them there.  
 
so what's in the shop now?
 
a couple of years ago, i started a project for publication, but it took a back-seat to the ic project.  what is it?  it's Tallulah Falls Railway #5.
 

 
when i started this project, i was still at the point that i was only doing exteriors.  the ic caboose project gave me the opportunity to think in terms of creating a more complete model.  looking back, i want to incorporate what i learned in the ic project into tf #5.
 

 
sounds easy!?  well, the ic interior was planned for from the beginning...tf #5 wasn't.  at the moment, i'm resolving problems and changing the building process to accomodate the construction of the interior.  as per my desires, the tf #5 caboose will make its' first appearance at the bcrr...but not at unmeet 2011.   just not enough time to get all the work done.  why tallulah fall rr?  i've had a soft spot for mountain railroading for many years...having been on the tweetsie as a MUCH younger man.  the history of railroading in the mountains of north georgia, north carolina, tennessee, and kentucky has always intrigued me so.  when the opportunity to join the jax steam team arose, the tf was my first choice.  in time, there was a dawning for me that i wouldn't always have my father around.  it was from him that i 'received' the gift of railroading.  to that end, my 1/8th scale equipment will be from the seaboard air line railroad...to honor his service.  what will become of tf #5 when it is done?  i don't know if it will travel to other rails to live or remain with me.  time will tell.
 
onward toward the next project!  how about a sal 5200 or 5300 series caboose?!  currently, i'm still trying to find roster documents showing which cabs worked out of either tampa or dunellon fl.  yes, i want to find one that my dad worked from.  the pic below was taken of a cab that is preserved at the museum in lake wales florida.
 

 
this particular project will be built as close to museum standards as my skills will take me.  this project will take me to areas of learning that are currently beyond my comfort zone.  i hope you'll join me in the journey.  
 
for this particular project, planning and research is paramount.  i'm in the process of trying to obtain documents through the st louis transportation museum from their American Car & Foundry files collection showing dimensions, construction, materials & appliances.  i'm also be taking a few road trips to photograph and measure the cabs in lake wales and leesburg.  doing a board-on-board build will be tedious, but more fun than a barrel of monkeys!  what's in store?  here's a tantalizing view of where i'm headed.
 

 
if you have original ACF specs and drawings, please let me know.  lots of planning and drawing left to do...and lots to learn as well!
 
when the sal cab is done, i'll have my dad personalize it, then it will be something to keep in the family for those to remember us by.  after that?  unless something else wants to be built (russell), clam lake and moose meadows equipment will occupy my time.
 
moose!


« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2010, 2:58pm by moose_the_caboose » Logged

ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1004 on: Dec 12th, 2010, 8:18pm »
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   For all those that discovered one of the few friendly, non-judgemental live steam forums around. And drifted into this thread, I would like to say this of George T's workmanship. He not only can build "one hell of a nice" caboose from scratch (take the time to look back in this thread), but can and did RE-BUILD a forty year old wooden kit caboose to outstanding standards.  Such high quality workmanship was employed on this old caboose kit, that, first of all, its better than new, and secondly I'm almost afraid to run it behind my train for fear of doing some kind of damage to if something goes wrong.


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1005 on: Jan 23rd, 2011, 8:38pm »
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hi all,
 
bruce r:  go ahead!  break it, it's got a lifetime guarantee!  not sure who's lifetime...or how good the guarantee is!!!?  just remember what happen to ray h...he got his back with an interior in it!  beware!!  in truth, there's very little that can't be fixed.  the weary erie was built to be enjoyed.
 
to all: many of you know that bruce r and i...and many others that post on this forum have been friends for many years.  he knows that he's only to ask and i would rebuild any car he owns...he, like a few others, have earned that privilege through their steadfast friendship and stewardship of the live steam hobby.  that's what live steaming is about...to them and to me.  
 
 
now...it may seem that the moose works shop has been quiet for some time now...yes, life gets in the way at times.  however, the 'quiet time' has it's advantages.  under my build table, a particular piece of equipment has resided for some time.  pockets knew that i would be able to make use of a small wood lathe...in time.  that time has gotten a little closer.  in order to rebuild the working head of this lathe, i needed to have the lathe mounted on a bench.  having gotten down-right disgusted with the prices of the commercially available benches, i started looking at plans for creating my own out of wood.  with the lumber i have in stock and the lumber i needed to buy, the cost would have been about $50....not bad.  oh!  but that's when i noticed that horrible freight had their bench on sale ($30).  while not the sturdiest, when i combine my original design with the steel frame...now you're talking!  between the framing for the caster skates and the 3/4" plywood for shelving and cabinet backbone, i'll be building in 2 sand troughs to add mass as a dampening fact for vibration.  wood lathes produce a lot of vibration when initial rounding cuts are made.  the dampening boxes will also lend the ability to lower the center of gravity to aid with keeping the lathe motor assembly stable.
 
with the small shop area that i have, everything has to serve multiple purposes as well as having the ability of being moved around.  the lathe bench stand must do so as well.  it's secondary use?  with the appropriate shielding in place, i will soon have a mount for my bench grinder.  sorry, no pics yet, but soon!
 
hmmm, now where to put a roll-around mill??!!  lol!
 
moose
 
on Dec 12th, 2010, 8:18pm, ErieAtlantic7597 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
   For all those that discovered one of the few friendly, non-judgemental live steam forums around. And drifted into this thread, I would like to say this of George T's workmanship. He not only can build "one hell of a nice" caboose from scratch (take the time to look back in this thread), but can and did RE-BUILD a forty year old wooden kit caboose to outstanding standards.  Such high quality workmanship was employed on this old caboose kit, that, first of all, its better than new, and secondly I'm almost afraid to run it behind my train for fear of doing some kind of damage to if something goes wrong.



« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2011, 9:00pm by moose_the_caboose » Logged

ErieAtlantic7597
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1006 on: Jan 29th, 2011, 8:46am »
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   Hi George,
 
   Sorry for not responding a lot sooner to your last post. I still need to install the new trucks and finally retire that Florida heritage set of trucks. but I do worry about doing damage to the caboose.  
 
   can't wait to see you at the "gathering"
 
   Bruce


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moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1007 on: Apr 24th, 2011, 8:44pm »
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hi all,
 
for some time, i've known that eventually, i would be the recipient of most of my father's railroad legacy.  little would i have figgered that it would have been this easter weekend.  while i'm delighted that my dad's uniforms and lanterns will remain 'in the family', i guess there's a realization and a gut-check that hits both people that one of those people won't be in the picture at some point in the future.  my dad has recently decided to clean out the closet of things he'll never wear or use again.  while he still wants to hold on to his caps, i now have his uniforms from the days that he was a baggage master and brakeman on the sal.  when i was growing up, i always thought my dad had the coolest job...he worked on a railroad!  in turn, he allowed me to be a part of the job by sneaking me on to a few of the mail trains he was working.  that privilege came with the responsibility of learning how to be safe around the railroad.  i learned a lot about life, the joys and the tears from those experiences...my dad is still one of my best friends along with being a great dad.  i'm starting to know now, the depth of saddness that i will feel when he has gone, that he feels now from the passing of his parents.  i rejoice that i have been able to spend some time with my parents this easter weekend.  i hope your weekend was just as joyous.
 
as was shared with me, i share with you.  we are still trying to find some of the 'accessories', but the main uniforms parts are here.
 

 

 

 
during the transition from sal to amtrak, amtrak contracted with the sal to have sal personnel operate their trains while in sal territory.  therefore, my dad was issued a new uniform and a lifetime pass.
 

 

 

 
the statement the uniforms make...stand on their own.  a slice of time, a slice of my families' life, and what one man did to keep us going.  thanks dad, just stick around for a while yet, will ya?!  


« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2011, 3:49am by moose_the_caboose » Logged

moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1008 on: Aug 8th, 2011, 9:21pm »
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hi all,
 
while this particular thread has been idle ('cause i'm in a research cycle at the moment), doesn't mean i've been idle as well.  once in a while, i run across so information that causes me to pause and ponder.
 
have you ever dreamed of parking a full-size locomotive in your garage?  sounds silly until i found the next best thing.  while researching another project that utilizes antique car parts, i ran across the following info...enjoy your day-dream!!
 
recognize the name?!
 

 

 
...and btw, they did build them!
 

 

 
ready to go to antique car shows yet?!  
 
enjoy,
 
moose


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Dan Watson
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
  CabooseLookout.jpg - 21451 Bytes
« Reply #1009 on: Aug 8th, 2011, 10:12pm »
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Wow, $7250 was some serious money back in nineteen-ought-whatever.  But then, it probably hasn't depreciated much since then...
 
While we're on the subject of old printed material, here is a conundrum for the Moose.  As we all know, the little protrusion on the top of a caboose is called a cupola.  Pronounced either koop-uh-la or kew-po-la.  But twasn't always so.  Have a look at the photo and caption below to see what it was called in the Car Builder's Cyclopedia in (I think) 1906.  So, when and why did it start being called a cupola rather than a lookout?


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LiveSteam/CabooseLookout.jpg
Click Image to Resize

« Last Edit: Aug 8th, 2011, 10:24pm by Dan Watson » Logged
moose_the_caboose
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1010 on: Sep 29th, 2011, 5:31pm »
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on Aug 8th, 2011, 10:12pm, Dan Watson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Wow, $7250 was some serious money back in nineteen-ought-whatever.  But then, it probably hasn't depreciated much since then...
 
While we're on the subject of old printed material, here is a conundrum for the Moose.  As we all know, the little protrusion on the top of a caboose is called a cupola.  Pronounced either koop-uh-la or kew-po-la.  But twasn't always so.  Have a look at the photo and caption below to see what it was called in the Car Builder's Cyclopedia in (I think) 1906.  So, when and why did it start being called a cupola rather than a lookout?

 
 
hi all,
 
dan:  my apologies for seemingly abandoning your query....i didn't mean to.  now, why the cupola?  just about everything that is built derives from prior experiences, railroading is no different.  the caboose was derived from the forward 'small cabin' that was a hallmark of many of the dutch ships.  not everything can be written in stone, but that's the best interpretation.  fire was one the biggest ongoing concerns aboard ship, so the galley was usually situated away from the gun decks, powder magazines, and officers' quarters.  for the dutch, the caboose was a natural place to contain galley cooking equipment.  other navies and shipbuilders placed the galley where they deemed safe.  as to the cupola, well there's less than accurate information on that.  i personally think that it was derived from the cupolas found on well-to-do homes, churches, and businesses.  what were they used for?  hiding the water tanks for in-home or business water pressure.  the cupola added a nice touch, the tanks stayed cooler, and the smarter housebuilders added draft tubes to many of the rooms to them.  open a window....heat rises...cooler air flows into the rooms.  kindda thoughtful for the times, doncha think?!
 
now, on the tf #5...
 
over the last year, i've given hard thought to finishing the car and the article for live steam magazine.  things at live steam magazine changed, i've changed...we all do.  in the last couple of months, it's become more important for me to finish the car and show it at the unmeet.   who knows, if may go home with someone else....
 
today, i was able to get all of the machinery up and running to create the endsills (white oak).  the fun begins...again!
 
moose


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pockets
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1011 on: Sep 29th, 2011, 9:29pm »
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'boutdamntime2....
 
Greg B.


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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #1012 on: Oct 8th, 2011, 8:18pm »
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hi all,
 
greg:  yep, ye'r right!
 
to all:  the tallulah falls x5 caboose project was originally conceived as a bootstrap article for a particular live steam magazine...things changed at the magazine and rapport that had been built with it's then editor was forgotten by the new managment.  there were to be 2 cabooses built, the first was to be a simple here's-how-to-do-it car...the tallulah falls x5.  the second was to be a board-on-board build of a cbq drover's caboose.  the cbq car will still be built, but i won't end up owning it.
 
well, as they say, time marches on...tf x5 got put by the wayside for the wm cab, the ic cab and the halloween bobber project.  it almost became another project cab for bobbyt....but i couldn't wish that much trouble on him.
 
here's the prototype...a cab with southern rwy roots...
 

 
the tf x5, finished or not, will be in attendance at the 2012 unmeet...i've missed being out in the shop!
 
 
here's part of what you missed.
 

 

 

 

 

 
and to where it sat for a couple of years....
 

 
for the last year or two, i've wrestled with what to do with it, for it, and to it.  as i said at the beginning of this post, i designed it as an easy-to-build project.  as the other projects were interjected ahead of it, my level of skills changed...i had out grown it.  for a long time, i wanted nothing to do with it, it just sat there...quietly calling.  as the moose meadows project moves from phase to phase, there are times when it moves and stays beyond my experience and back into the hands of my good friend and very capable mechanic, pockets.  even as i've been doing more research for mm#5, the tf x5 sat quietly calling, calling, calling damn it!
 
well, once i got home from michigan this summer, the time i spent with the clam lake folks re-invigorated my desire to finish it.  i've spent some time thinking about the project and have come up with the answer that the project is still viable, worth doing, and has educational value.  how so?  it finally dawned on me that the caboose and its design isn't or wasn't the problem.  i am.  sometimes the human component just develops a mental block.  why is tf x5 still viable?  it is still easy to build, but by my rethinking the problems ahead, i can also show that it can take someone to the level of intermediate detail level.  in short, i didn't engineer the car to have an interior, but i can show that it can still be done.  that's where i'm at.
 
moose


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ConrailRed9504
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Re: Building Live Steam Railcars with Moose the Caboose
 
« Reply #1013 on: Oct 12th, 2011, 12:29am »
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George,
   This is exciting, another project. I can hardly wait.
Russ


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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #1014 on: Oct 12th, 2011, 7:14pm »
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on Oct 12th, 2011, 12:29am, ConrailRed9504 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George,
   This is exciting, another project. I can hardly wait.
Russ

 
thanks for the vote of confidence russ!  hope that it won't disappoint you...i hope an nyc cab will be next on the build table when this one is finished.
 
anywho, on to the new work....well, almost.   in the last few days, the centersill went from looking like this one.  which btw, was designed to use bolts through the carbody for both the body tiedowns and bolster pins, an easy system to master for even the novice builder.  the problem for me became one of how to install an interior without having the unsightly bolt heads showing.  when i built the ic caboose, i solved that problem from the outset with blind nuts.  that became the solution for the tf x5.
 
here's the old style centersill,
 

 
in this photo, you can see the bolt heads even as parts of the new flooring was being installed.
 

 
and here's a view of the blind nuts (or t-nuts) being installed.  an installation note should you choose to use this method, carefully guide the blind nut into place by screwing the bolt into it and gently tapping it into final position with a hammer.  if you don't the blind nut WILL settle into a position out of alignment with the bolt.
 

 
with the blind nuts in place, the floor-work could continue.  in the photo below, you can see where the original bolster bolt was...but not for long.  i thought long and hard about plugging it, but heaven forbid someone would want to go back to the old system.
 

 
last photo for tonight, flooring is being laid both sides toward the middle.  you can do it anyway you with, but for me, i can calculate the finish lumber dimension and mill it to size.
 
enough for tonight, more to follow in a day or two.
 
enjoy,
 
moose


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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #1015 on: Oct 22nd, 2011, 10:16pm »
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hi all,
 
while my friends have been enjoying themselves at the eagle point meet, i've been back in the shop.  here's the results...the flooring is on the way to being completed.
 

 
still a long way to go until completion, but workin' on it.  i re-started this project by wanting to get the endsills made...that happened today!
 

 
here's part of the structure i'm going for...
 

 
i'll get a better shot of the model in a day or two.  when the flooring has been finish sanded, i'll be able to seal and paint, then move on to building some of the interior.
 
btw, tf#5 won't be representive of a newly built cab, but one that has been re-shopped a few times...if you look close, you'll see a wear path down the middle of the flooring.  the trouble and the challenge of doing new work is that it, well, looks new...so how to model an older car?!  that's the fun of it!
 
enjoy,
 
moose


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SteamHeaton
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« Reply #1016 on: Oct 23rd, 2011, 10:12am »
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George,  great to see another cab coming to life.   The wear pattern down the middle of the floor,  little things like that are what give your cabs the character of the real ones.  Like carving initials into the conductors desk on the IC cab.  You do such nice work.   BTW the IC cab ran at least 20 maybe even 30 miles at eagle point.    Ray III

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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #1017 on: Oct 24th, 2011, 6:53pm »
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on Oct 23rd, 2011, 10:12am, SteamHeaton wrote:       (Click here for original message)
George,  great to see another cab coming to life.   The wear pattern down the middle of the floor,  little things like that are what give your cabs the character of the real ones.  Like carving initials into the conductors desk on the IC cab.  You do such nice work.   BTW the IC cab ran at least 20 maybe even 30 miles at eagle point.    Ray III

 
ray, thank you for the vote of confidence...coming from you, it means alot.  you know that if the ic cab ever has a problem, i'll take care of it.  as for the tf cab, i'm halting all interior work until the under-floor framing is in place.  looking back, i wish i had done that on your ic cab.  as each new day passes, i see more things that pique my interest in building more details.  keep watchin'!
 
dale:  thank you so much for your assistance in data collection, the drawings and video you've sent are just the leg up i needed.  i'm ever so thankful that the c of g cabs and tf cabs are so much alike!
 
moose


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ConrailRed9504
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« Reply #1018 on: Oct 25th, 2011, 10:39am »
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That looks great!!!! I am still trying to budget for my little project, now I have another little new addition to my family. Mouths to feed and diapers to buy. OH MY.  
Russ


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moose_the_caboose
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« Reply #1019 on: Oct 27th, 2011, 7:37pm »
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on Oct 25th, 2011, 10:39am, ConrailRed9504 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
That looks great!!!! I am still trying to budget for my little project, now I have another little new addition to my family. Mouths to feed and diapers to buy. OH MY.  
Russ

 
hi all,
 
russ:  enjoy the little ones while you are able...they don't stay that way for long.  it takes a big heart to love and raise even a single child, or in your case, several...i think you can handle it!  sometimes you don't realize the sacrifices your parents made until you become one yourself.  as i said before, enjoy them now....you'll ask yourself 'why did i ever...?' later.
 
to all:  in the last few days, i've been working on the under-flooring.  i used up all the red oak lumber i had and then created more from poplar.  
 
here's a view of what i'm doing...this part wasn't planned from the beginning, but inspiration happens.
 

 
what you are seeing is just the first step in a multi-step process.   anyone see the fun i'm having?
 

 
btw, you make at least twice as many boards as you need...and you still run out!
 
it may not be completed by the time the unmeet rolls around, but that won't stop me from 'showing' it.  too much fun in the shop!
 
enjoy,
 
moose


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