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DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
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   Author  Topic: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.  (Read 1850 times)
scottychaos
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DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« on: Aug 24th, 2010, 9:51am »
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Im going to gather up all the known data on these depots..
I started a list..I have eight confirmed "pagoda" depots so far..am I missing any?
 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/DLW-Pagoda/index.html
 
Im going to try to photograph all of them this summer/autumn..
 
thanks,
Scot


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Flemington Flyer
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #1 on: Aug 24th, 2010, 10:13am »
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Scot -
 
Do you have the Tabor 3 volume set of DL&W books?
 
In one of them, he goes over every station, most with photos. If you don't, I'll check mine tonight. I know this was predominately a Western NY station style, but I am sure that at one time, there were some in NJ or PA too, if you are looking to do an "all time" list that is.
 
RAH


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scottychaos
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Posts: 1342
Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #2 on: Aug 24th, 2010, 10:30am »
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Thanks Ralph,
No, I dont have the Taber books,
and yes, I would like to rercord all of them!
 
thanks,
Scot


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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #3 on: Aug 24th, 2010, 11:54am »
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Found another one,  
Portland, PA
 
http://history.gsmrrclub.org/history10.html
 
I dont think the 2nd depot is actually the original..
it looks *so* heavily modified that its likely the original pagoda station probably burned, and was replaced with the existing structure..
 
Scot


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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #4 on: Aug 24th, 2010, 12:44pm »
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Thanks to the wonders of the internet, the list has almost doubled in four hours..now up to 15 Pagoda stations..two in PA.
 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/DLW-Pagoda/index.html
 
Scot


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Flemington Flyer
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #5 on: Aug 25th, 2010, 9:46am »
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Scot -
 
****UPDATED****  
Please add to the list..............  
Luzerne, PA (Bloomsburg Branch),  
Hunlock Creek, PA(Bloomsburg Branch),  
Sterling, NJ (Passaic & Delaware, aka Gladstone Branch Branch)
Washington, NJ (Warren RR, Old Main Line, 1st station)  
 
You are also correct, the current Portland, PA station is the second one built.
 
Pictures of the above stations are in Volume 2 of Thomas T. Taber and Thomas T. Taber III's book, The DL&W RR in the 20th Century, pages 749, 773, 765, and 768 respectfully.
 
Will have to look thru all three volumes page by page to see if I can spot some more.
 
RAH
 


« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2010, 2:10pm by Flemington Flyer » Logged

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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #6 on: Aug 25th, 2010, 11:01am »
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excellent, thanks Ralph!
the count is now up to Twenty:
 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/DLW-Pagoda/index.html
 
(yes I know the webpage is very ugly!
it will get it fixed up..right now its basically just a data dump)
 
thanks,
Scot


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Flemington Flyer
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #7 on: Aug 25th, 2010, 6:12pm »
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Two more, Scot -
 
Barclay Street (Paterson, NJ) - Boonton Branch - replaced by 1927
 
Watsessing Ave (Bloomfield, NJ) - Montclair Branch - replaced 1912


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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #8 on: Aug 26th, 2010, 8:20am »
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on Aug 25th, 2010, 6:12pm, FFW-1 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Two more, Scot -
 
Barclay Street (Paterson, NJ) - Boonton Branch - replaced by 1927
 
Watsessing Ave (Bloomfield, NJ) - Montclair Branch - replaced 1912

 
thanks!
 
wouldnt Paterson be considered the mainline?
I dont really know anything about NJ lines..
 
I never unserstood the "branch" part of "boonton branch"..
which route is the DL&W mainline through NJ?
I know there is an "old main"..and then the cutoff, which became the "new mainline"..so which is considered the "real" mainline? (I would say whichever had the mainline passenger trains, especially the Phoebe Snow, would be considered the mainline..but I dont know the details on the NJ lines..)
 
thanks,
Scot


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Flemington Flyer
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #9 on: Aug 26th, 2010, 11:52am »
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Scot -
 
Quick primer.....BTW, this refers to the railroad post-1911 when the Cutoff was completed.
 
The MAIN LINE was Hoboken to Port Morris, via Newark, Summit, Morristown and Dover.
 
The MONTCLAIR BRANCH left the main line at Roseville Ave, Newark and ran to Montclair
 
The P&D/GLADSTONE BRANCH left the main line at Summit, and ran to Peapack/Gladstone
 
The BOONTON BRANCH left the main at West End Jct, Jersey City and was the low-grade frieght line via Secaucus, Patterson and Boonton.
 
Here is where it got tricky......
 
When the Moris and Essex was leased by the DL&W, the original mainline was via Rockaway (between Denville and Dover, NJ). Later, when the Boonton Branch was built, it crossed the original main and created a "short cut" to Dover via Denville. The old mainline (not to be confused with the Old Road) became the Rockaway Loop until it was ripped up in 1948.
 
OK, so for all operational intents and purposes, the Boonton Branch from Denville East Dover is the Main Line.
 
West of Port Morris Yard is where the NJ Cut-Off leaves off going almost due west direction to the Delaware Water Gap, and this became the mainline of the DL&W when it was opened in 1911.
 
The original M&E main (referred to as the Old Road after the DL&W lease of the M&E) also leaves town in a southwestern direction. One town west of the yard, the Sussex Branch to Branchville, NJ via Newton takes off. The line continues west via Waterloo and Hackettstown to Washintgton NJ, where the old M&E conencts to the DL&W Warren RR (the real Old Main) for the northwestern run to the Water Gap via Oxford, NJ and Portland, PA. The Hampton Branch and Phillipsburg Branch left Washington to therir respective towns (remants of the two original main lines after the 1868 lease of the M&E).
 
Sorry to have run on like that, but I couldn't figure out a way to answer your question, LOL!
 
RAH


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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #10 on: Aug 26th, 2010, 1:50pm »
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thanks!
I think I get it! mostly..
 
Scot


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slotracer

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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #11 on: Aug 27th, 2010, 5:41pm »
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Last saw the Perkinsville depot at least 30 years ago, it was in very rough shape then. A guy who lived across the road (ABout 40 years old at the time) told us he owned the old station and planned to restore it for some purpose (don't remeber any more.) I thought it looked too far gone then to restore, surprised it is still standing. It would probably be easier to draw plans of the station and older in loads of lumber and construct a brand new one from scratch.
There is a group trying to restore the old depot in Como CO (DSP&P) that is another building WAYYYY gone and is another that I thought would be easier/cheaper to just build a new one from scratch.


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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #12 on: Oct 14th, 2010, 10:32am »
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(edit.. Avoca PA, not Avoca NY)
 
Found a new one!
Avoca, PA
 
(see post further down)


« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2010, 2:30pm by scottychaos » Logged
Bowmans_Creek_Bra
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #13 on: Oct 14th, 2010, 11:48am »
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Scott,
 
The Luzerne, PA station is gone.  I can't tell you the year it was torn down but it is definitely gone.
 
Harry


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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #14 on: Oct 14th, 2010, 12:09pm »
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^ thanks Harry!
 
Its really fascinating the way the internet works sometimes..
I just found ANOTHER pagoda depot!
 
So just now Im reading a thread over on the EL forum, about the Erie and Wyoming Valley Railroad:
 
http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=EL&action=display&num=1286988575&start=3#3
 
I dont know what the E&WC locomotives look like, that the poster is referring to, so I do a google image search for photos..
im clicking on the results, looking at locomotive photos..(didnt actually find a E&WC locomotive photo) but instead..hey, what is that? a pagoda depot??  
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63274767@N00/743671292/
 
Wimmers, PA DL&W depot, not only is it a new one for the list, its a new SURVIVOR!   It popped up because the photographer said "I believe it was part of the Erie and Wyoming Valley Railroad." totally bizzare!  
 
Pagoda depot count is now up to 24, with 9 known survivors.
 
Scot


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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #15 on: Oct 14th, 2010, 12:30pm »
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hmmm..this is very interesting..
I now have two references to what appear to be dead-on DL&W pagoda depots, all details match the other DL&W pagodas..but these two might have been ERIE depots!
 
that makes no sense..
 
But Wimmers was clearly on the Erie..not the DL&W:
 
http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/trainnut/ELmainpage/ERIE_Unknown-3.jpg (believed to be Wimmers) see:
http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/trainnut/ELmainpage/rowpage.htm
 
also Wimmers surviving depot pics, linked in the post above..
 
Also the Avoca depot might be Erie, not DL&W..photo is from the Erie's 1909 photo survey...most unusual.
 
There is another new bit of data, which I have on the website (not yet uploaded, uncer construction) concerning the origins of the Pagoda depots,
which could possibly explain DL&W pagoda depots on the Erie:
 
Quote:
The Painted Post museum has an interesting note about their depot: "The pre-fabricated building was delivered on rail and erected on its current site in Painted Post in 1881-1882." I would have assumed all the depots were built on-site, from scratch, but from the same plan. But this reference implies that perhaps the depots were built somewhere else, then shipped by rail (probably in sub-assemblies) to their locations, and then placed on the site, and finished.
interesting! I will have to dig into this some more.

http://www.pattersoninnmuseum.org/museum_depot.shtml
 
Perhaps..perhaps the DL&W was "mass producing" these depots at some central location, shipping them out to be assembled along the line..had a few "extras" and sold them to the Erie??
 
Scot


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scottychaos
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #16 on: Oct 14th, 2010, 12:46pm »
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(edit) Avoca PA, not Avoca NY.
 

 

 
 
Erie or DL&W??  
 
Photos are from the Erie's 1909 survey..at first I figured the Erie photographers also simply caught a few DL&W depots along the way..
 
 
But with this new Wimmers, PA info, its now seems there could be (at least) two DL&W pagoda depots that were actually owned by the Erie!  
 
Being such bitter rivals, I would never have suspected such a thing would happen..but perhaps Erie had the need and the cash, and the DL&W had surplus depot "kits" so they made a deal..
 
this is all TOTAL speculation on my part!
I currently have zero data to back up any of this..
(im not even totally clear on the "central location" theory for building the depots..that came from the Painted Post museum reference..)
thoughts anyone??
 
Scot


« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2010, 2:28pm by scottychaos » Logged
Ashley_John
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #17 on: Oct 14th, 2010, 1:24pm »
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Hi Scot,
 
Are you sure that is Avoca, NY? There is an Avoca, Pa and the Erie ran through there.
 
Concerning the Wimmers depot - definately Erie and moved not too far from it's original location on the Erie & Wyoming Branch in Wimmers. It sits behind the church off of Rt 191 just south of Hamlin corners in Hamlin, PA.
 
JP


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scottychaos
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Posts: 1342
Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #18 on: Oct 14th, 2010, 2:22pm »
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John,
opps! my mistake..that is in fact Avoca, PA!
(I will take down the pics temporarily, since they are incorrectly labeled)
 
So thats two Erie depots in the Scranton area that are clearly of the DL&W design..Avoca PA and Wimmers PA.
 
Scot


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Henry
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Re: DL&W "Pagoda Style" depots.
 
« Reply #19 on: Oct 14th, 2010, 3:10pm »
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About the same time the Lackawanna was building pagoda depots, the Erie built at least four identical pagoda depots on the Wyoming Division, Gravity, Maplewood, Wimmers, and Elmhurst, PA. They were in between the DL&W standard and small pagoda depot sizes. The Avoca depot was the same size, but the door and window arrangement was different from the other four.
 
DL&W west of Binghamton generally used a standard pattern varying the length to make then larger or smaller.
 
Here is my list of pagoda and possible depots with approximate DL&W MP's, some may be Old Road:
 
Lackawanna, Scranton,Div:
Factoryville, PA (MP 149) ?, 1-1/2 story
Apalachin, NY (MP 205) Long
Vestal, NY (MP 216) Standard, survives, moved
Nichols, NY (MP 220) Standard
 
Buffalo Div:
Elmira, NY (MP 248) Probably a pagoda, replaced 1913
Horseheads, NY (MP 253) Standard, dismantled and may still exist somewhere, possibly still in pieces
Big Flats, NY (MP 258) Standard
Gibson/Corning (MP 265) Probably a pagoda
Painted Post, NY (MP 268) Standard
Coopers, NY (MP 270) ?
Campbell, NY (MP 275) Standard
Savona, NY (MP 280) Small
Bath, NY (MP 285) Small, survives, moved
Kanona NY (MP 289) Standard
Wallace, NY (MP 295) Small
Cohocton, NY (MP 301) Long
Atlanta, NY (MP 305) Long
Perkinsville/Portway, NY (MP 313) Probably a pagoda
Dansville, NY (MP 318) ?, destroyed before 1900
Groveland, NY (MP 325) Standard
Mount Morris, NY (MP 332) May have been a pagoda
 
Bloomsburg Branch:
Hunlocks Creek, PA (MP 27) Longer, survives, agents residence in large extra roof "pagoda"
Luzerene, PA (MP 16) Wider and taller
 
M&E:
Oxford Furnace, NJ (MP 71) Large, taller
 
Older DL&W Pagodas in NJ, following a different plan:
Paterson
Bloomfield
Stirling (Gladstone Branch MP 28?)
Washington
Portland
(there were probably others)
 
 
Erie RR Pagodas on the Wyoming Div:
Avoca, PA (MP 42)
Elmhurst, PA (MP 27)
Gravity, PA (MP 13)
Maplewood, PA (MP 18)
Wimmers, PA (MP 27) - survives, moved
 
Hope this helps,
 
Henry


« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2010, 3:12pm by Henry » Logged
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