Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Nov 23rd, 2017, 11:50am
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


The Bangor and Portland Division
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Fallen Flags
   The Lackawanna
(Moderators: Flemington Flyer, Charlie Ricker)
   The Bangor and Portland Division
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: The Bangor and Portland Division  (Read 2892 times)
Erie3319
Railfan
Posts: 150
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #40 on: Apr 16th, 2006, 8:21am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Apr 16th, 2006, 7:07am, NS3360 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I'm curious about the Limestone Spring name and location.

 
The station list provides a clue.   Note that the station number is the same for the junction points and odd switches.  Limestone Spring may simply be the designation for the east end of the Nazareth siding.


« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2006, 10:21am by Erie3319 » Logged
Erie3319
Railfan
Posts: 150
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
  Panama_Siding.jpg - 155509 Bytes
« Reply #41 on: Apr 16th, 2006, 10:04am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Here's a shot at, if I remember it correctly after more than thirty years,  Panama Siding in the "Hill Yard" at Portland.  The Alco is westbound. Circa 1973.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Lackawanna/Panama_Siding.jpg
Click Image to Resize

« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2006, 10:13am by Erie3319 » Logged
Erie3319
Railfan
Posts: 150
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
  Bangor_Roundhouse.jpg - 111347 Bytes
« Reply #42 on: Apr 16th, 2006, 10:08am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Bangor roundhouse circa 1973.  The agent's office was in the flat roofed brick addition on the near side.  The peak-roofed section was the train crew's locker room.  The official designation for this location was "Shops."  Train orders issued here would so specify.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Lackawanna/Bangor_Roundhouse.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Erie3319
Railfan
Posts: 150
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
  Shops.jpg - 68373 Bytes
« Reply #43 on: Apr 16th, 2006, 10:10am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Here's another view of Shops, from the other end, again circa 1973.  The stone part of the structure is, no doubt ,original Bangor and Portland.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Lackawanna/Shops.jpg
Click Image to Resize

« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2006, 10:18am by Erie3319 » Logged
hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #44 on: Apr 17th, 2006, 4:56pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Apr 16th, 2006, 10:10am, Erie3319 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Here's another view of Shops, from the other end, again circa 1973.  The stone part of the structure is, no doubt ,original Bangor and Portland.

 
Now that's a trip down memory lane! Thanks!!! This was my playground!!!
 
Jim...  


Logged
NS3360
Historian
View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 1955
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #45 on: Apr 17th, 2006, 5:22pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Apr 11th, 2006, 5:41pm, NS3360 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
B&P from Nazareth to Bath was abandoned by CR in 1981 or 1983 don't remember.

 
This part of the B&P was known by Conrail as the Nazareth Industrial Track. I checked my notes and the part of the B&P from Route 191 (current end of track by Lamson Sessions where you took those pics) to the under Broad Street in Nazareth abandoned June 2, 1982. Then the remainer of the Nazareth Industrial from Nazareth to Bath was abandoned August 10, 1982. That was bugging the heck out of me so I had to check...but I knew it was around that year  


« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2006, 5:43pm by NS3360 » Logged

Moderates: Traction, ALCO, GVT Short Lines, Short Lines

NS3360
Historian
View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 1955
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #46 on: Apr 25th, 2006, 2:41pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Jim (and others), here's something you should find interesting. I won a 1941 Nazareth Directory and map on ebay. It's really neat, and it lists the DL&W and L&NE railroad stations and agents that operated them, as well as phone number , etc.
 
Listed for the B&P station:
 
'DL&W Railroad Co., Nazareth Station, Wesley Radcliffe agent, 500 South Main St.'
 
 Just something I found interesting...


Logged

Moderates: Traction, ALCO, GVT Short Lines, Short Lines

hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #47 on: Apr 27th, 2006, 5:23pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Apr 25th, 2006, 2:41pm, NS3360 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Jim (and others), here's something you should find interesting. I won a 1941 Nazareth Directory and map on ebay. It's really neat, and it lists the DL&W and L&NE railroad stations and agents that operated them, as well as phone number , etc.
 
Listed for the B&P station:
 
'DL&W Railroad Co., Nazareth Station, Wesley Radcliffe agent, 500 South Main St.'
 
 Just something I found interesting...

 
Scans!!! Please!!! Great win!!!
 
Jim...  


Logged
NS3360
Historian
View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 1955
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #48 on: Apr 29th, 2006, 12:46pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Apr 27th, 2006, 5:23pm, hummel1237 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Scans!!! Please!!! Great win!!!
 
Jim...  

 
 
I'll get a scan or two up as soon as I can...


Logged

Moderates: Traction, ALCO, GVT Short Lines, Short Lines

hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #49 on: Apr 30th, 2006, 8:39pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Apr 29th, 2006, 12:54pm, NS3360 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
This is the Lackawanna bridge over the Monacacy Creek at the DL&W-N&B-L&NE interchange yard at Old Bath Junction. The entire yard was carried over the creek! In this area, the DL&W-N&B had five tracks and the LNE had four tracks. Sadly, only one track remains- old LNE. This is near Penna. Cement Junction and the 'B&P siding to nowhere' still exists with a switch in the thick vegetation! Tried taking a pic but it didn't turn out well. Next time.

 
Glad you're on the case! What would I do without ya! I sincerely mean that!
 
What do you know about the Chapman & Lehigh RR that ran from the other side of Keystone Cement and crosses Airport Road to Catty? It was the brain child of Conrad Miller and was incorporated into the B&P. Does that mean The Lackawanna had a vested interest in this as well? If Miller incorporated the C&L into the B&P The Lackawannna had to have a financial interest in it because it was in fact thrown into the B&P - right? I think Miller may have had plans to connect these roads eventually but one thing for sure, it allowed him to compete for Keystone's business. Was the C&L still operating when The lackawanna took over? Did The Lackawanna own the C&L when they purchased the B&P at the turn of the last century? If they did you can bet I will put it in the B&P research of this thread. It was B&P during The Lackawanna's financial interest years of the 1880's and 90's so it may already qualify...
 
Jim...    


Logged
hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #50 on: May 2nd, 2006, 5:33pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Yeah, but we love digging for worms because they catch fish - sometimes anyway...  
 
I think the C&L connected with the L&L (if I read it correctly) near Catty giving Miller access to do business with the RRs of the Allentown Yard and area. Maybe you would know but I think the part of the C&L that was not "finished" was the connection to the B&P Yard at Bath. In other words it dead ends at Keystone Cement's West side (the L&NE now NS is on the East side). It would have been nice if Miller or The Lackawanna connected it to the B&P Yard at Bath. Imagine...  
 
Nice news clip in current events! I didn't post so yours would be the lastest post there but I wanted to say Thanks!!!
 
Are you going to Toby on the 28th? It would be nice to meet up and say Hi. I thought I might chase from Scranton to Toby but never did it before. What roads, what crossings, etc., are good? I guess I'm looking for a chase partner or at the very least chase info. Better go to that thread I guess...
 
Thanks Again!
 
Jim...  


« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2006, 5:39pm by hummel1237 » Logged
NS3360
Historian
View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 1955
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #51 on: May 3rd, 2006, 6:22am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

The reason I said that the C&L was never completed was because the L&L was at this time a Bethlehem-Bath-Chapmans operation (untilmately Pen Argyl). L&L never built to Catty, but the L&NE did in 1913. I'd like to see a B&P map that shows the C&L row. I do agree with you about the railroad wanting to serve Allentown area, and it's known for a fact Lackawanna surveyed a route to Allentown in 1903. The research continues...
 
I thought that article was a good current event, and yeah hopefully I should be at Toby, but I'll move over to that thread to discuss it  


Logged

Moderates: Traction, ALCO, GVT Short Lines, Short Lines

NS3360
Historian
View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 1955
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #52 on: May 4th, 2006, 4:55pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Then we turn and look the other way from Broad Street bridge....
 
A sad view of the B&P industrial tracks at Nazareth looking west from Broad Street bridge in the early 1980's.  Snyder Milling at right, Lackawanna Station center. I remember seeing most of these rails in a degenerated state like this photo....
 

 
Note: Linked photo from the Houser Collection


« Last Edit: May 4th, 2006, 5:06pm by NS3360 » Logged

Moderates: Traction, ALCO, GVT Short Lines, Short Lines

hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #53 on: May 6th, 2006, 12:07pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 4th, 2006, 4:55pm, NS3360 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Then we turn and look the other way from Broad Street bridge....
 
A sad view of the B&P industrial tracks at Nazareth looking west from Broad Street bridge in the early 1980's.  Snyder Milling at right, Lackawanna Station center. I remember seeing most of these rails in a degenerated state like this photo....
 

 
Note: Linked photo from the Houser Collection

 
www.tripod.com


Logged
hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #54 on: May 6th, 2006, 12:10pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 4th, 2006, 4:11pm, NS3360 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
One of my favorite B&P shots, Mike 1236 is about to pass underneath Broad Street in Nazareth. Just around the bend was a service yard for Nazareth Cement and some of thsoe rails were still back there a few years ago...  Taken from one of my Lackawanna books photo by Arthur Angstadt.  This was probably one of the cement shifters and after he did his work he'd turn on the Nazareth Wye and head back to Bangor. The interchange job to Bath ran in the late afternoon...

 
You know I like it! Mike #1236 - close enough to #1237...  
 
And of course the location!
 
Jim...  


Logged
hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #55 on: May 6th, 2006, 12:31pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 3rd, 2006, 6:22am, NS3360 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The reason I said that the C&L was never completed was because the L&L was at this time a Bethlehem-Bath-Chapmans operation (untilmately Pen Argyl). L&L never built to Catty, but the L&NE did in 1913. I'd like to see a B&P map that shows the C&L row. I do agree with you about the railroad wanting to serve Allentown area, and it's known for a fact Lackawanna surveyed a route to Allentown in 1903. The research continues...
 
I thought that article was a good current event, and yeah hopefully I should be at Toby, but I'll move over to that thread to discuss it  

 
I looked at an old L&NE map (circa 1940's) and it shows a line connecting Keystone Cement to the LV at a point somewhere above Catasauqua. The thing we need to know is if The Lackawanna ever controlled this line, owned this line, etc. Did Miller sell it to someone else before The Lackawanna bought the B&P? It's clear that understanding the surrounding railroads is going to play a part in our research for sure. What do we know about the LV in the Catty, Northampton and surrounding areas? Maybe the LV bought the C&L or maybe some other small road bought it just to service Keystone Cement and other customers (if any) along that little line...
 
Fact #1: The C&L was part of the B&P in the 1880s.
Fact #2: The Lackawanna had a vested interest in the B&P in the 1880s.
 
The most pressing question; Was the B&Ps C&L Line only considered incomplete between Keystone Cement and DL&Ws Bath Yard?  
 
According to an old L&NE map Keystone Cement connected to the LV somewhere above Catty, rr ownership not listed...
 
Worms...
 
Jim...
 
Bryan - btw; Great research and pics!!!


« Last Edit: May 6th, 2006, 12:38pm by hummel1237 » Logged
hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #56 on: May 9th, 2006, 5:53pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Great! Miller and The lackawanna didn't complete the line. I think the N&B purchased the C&L and completed it so the statement "Miller never completed the C&L" is true. The statement "The Lackawanna never completed the line" is also true. I can't believe The Lackawanna didn't protest the sale of the C&L. You would think The Lackawanna, being a major stock holder, would have seen the need for this connection a lot sooner. They ended up trying to make a connection to Allentown the hard way and that never happend either, although they made an attempt as your pics prove. I found a date of 1905 being (iirc) the N&B opening of the N&B to Bath. "The N&B finished the project" may very well be a true statement!  
 
Wouldn't that be cool!!!
 
I found another interesting fact while digging for historical information. The B&P (with The Lackawanna as a major stock holder) operated the E&N between 1889 and 1890 for about the space of 1 1/2 years before the LV took it over - WOW!!!
 
One of my favorite things about the B&P is it never lost its name and connection to Bangor PA and Portland PA. The Lackawanna kept the name as a division and it has been known to this day as The Bangor and Portland Secondary - I think that's cool...  
 
Jim...  


« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2006, 5:16pm by hummel1237 » Logged
hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #57 on: May 11th, 2006, 2:08pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hey Bryan!
 
What do you know about the stops between Belfast Junction and Grand Central? I've come up with the following;
 
1. Edleman
2. Miller
3. Werkhieser
 
Any others? Did they service the quarry at Edleman? What went on in Miller and exactly where is it? Werkhieser also?
 
You see what digging for worms can do...  
 
Jim...  


Logged
NS3360
Historian
View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 1955
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #58 on: May 11th, 2006, 2:59pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 11th, 2006, 2:08pm, hummel1237 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hey Bryan!
 
What do you know about the stops between Belfast Junction and Grand Central? I've come up with the following;
 
1. Edleman
2. Miller
3. Werkhieser
 
Any others? Did they service the quarry at Edleman? What went on in Miller and exactly where is it? Werkhieser also?
 
You see what digging for worms can do...  
 
Jim...  

 
Hey Jim,
 
I have those names down too as well as Rasleystown which is just below Miller but I'm not sure if that was stop or not. One of my maps shows a long passing siding in the area of Edleman. Miller is at the Knitters Hill Road crossing and Werkheiser is in between Miller and Belfast Junction. I'm pretty sure there were sidings into the slate quarries there after all the B&P was known for hauling slate. I read somewhere that the Edleman and Belfast quarries were abandoned by the 1950's. It would be cool to go on a 'B&P expedition' to see what we can find remaining...


Logged

Moderates: Traction, ALCO, GVT Short Lines, Short Lines

NS3360
Historian
View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 1955
Re: The Bangor and Portland Division
 
« Reply #59 on: May 13th, 2006, 8:37am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

An interesting B&P tidbit I thought I'd post. Around 1958 L&NE wondered why their outbound traffic at Bath Nunction was slightly less than what it used to be. Reason was N&B did not want to haul empty cars from Bath Junction to the Universal Atlas Cement at Northampton. The Lackawanna business was better because they had cars routed coming to them from the CNJ at Northampton then via N&B to Bath Junction. DL&W had their cars loaded at Universal Atlas which eliminated an empty run to Bath Junction. Cement from the B&P accounted for 52.7% of the Lackawanna's revenue...

Logged

Moderates: Traction, ALCO, GVT Short Lines, Short Lines

Pages: 1 2 3 4  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »