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Color of Lopez Station?
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LV LOU
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Posts: 1127
Color of Lopez Station?
 
« on: Feb 27th, 2015, 4:41pm »
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Anyone have any idea what color the Lopez station would have been painted 1930-1940-ish? Trim,main body,platform,ETC? I'm working on a logging railroad based on the LV and the S&NY,I have a station kit that looks close,no idea what colors it should be..THANKS!!!

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TAB
Historian
Posts: 1908
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #1 on: Feb 27th, 2015, 5:36pm »
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Hello Lou....perhaps this would be of help for starters. It's from a book titled "LOPEZ PA  -  THE EARLY HISTORY OF SAWDUST CITY". The information in the following link indicates it's out of print but if you can find one it may be a valuable reference for your project......Tom
 
http://www.lopezpa.com/historybook.htm

 


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LV LOU
Historian
Posts: 1127
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #2 on: Feb 27th, 2015, 8:10pm »
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Thanks Tom!! The station I have is a close kit,I need to add to the platform.That pic tells me all I need..

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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #3 on: Feb 28th, 2015, 12:05pm »
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LV LOU - TAB -  
 
What do I know, but... Lopez, PA is Sullivan County. Link to map here should help.
http://www.mappery.com/Lehigh-Valley-Railroad-Historical-Map
 
The map does not indicate LVRR presence in Sullivan County. So the issue here being: The Lopez Station  
appears to be in what your writer long thought DL&W colors. Read the History (in the link here, just above).  
No specific language about precisely which Railroad came thru Town?
 
Other hint? Get the Yahoo! map for Scranton to Lopez. Looks more like DL&W service area?
 
Odd Note? In the station view? What ever sat on the distant side of the building? A motor car? An interurban?  
Detail isn't so good...
 
Vern


« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2016, 1:42pm by Flemington Flyer » Logged

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LV LOU
Historian
Posts: 1127
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #4 on: Feb 28th, 2015, 1:49pm »
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Vern,if you look at the header,that "LV" map is from 1868!! The LV didn't get to Lopez until the line was extended from Bernice in 1886..The Bowman's Creek branch did serve Lopez,the BC Branch ran from Wilkes Barre to Towanda through Dallas, Ricketts Glen,Red Rock,Lopez,and New Albany.There was also another RR that served the area,the New York & Susquehanna which ran to Williamsport..Very well documented..Now,is that the correct color for the station? I believe that unless someone comes up with more conclusive info,that's the way I'm going..LOL!!!

« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2015, 1:51pm by LV LOU » Logged

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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #5 on: Feb 28th, 2015, 1:57pm »
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LV LOU -  
 
Many Thanks! Missed the date on the LV Map which linked.
 
To my mind, Station still looks it was in DL&W paint. It is the "Red Car" on the far side of the Station which is a puzzle.
Wonder, too, what the date of the illustrated view of the Station area...
 
Another Note: In the Timetable Map (1941), branch between Towanda and Lopez appears.  http://www.r2parks.net/lv.html
 
Vern


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LV LOU
Historian
Posts: 1127
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #6 on: Mar 1st, 2015, 11:22am »
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Vern,I think the red car is a Lehigh Valley gas electric Doodle Bug..

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HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3433
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #7 on: Mar 1st, 2015, 2:06pm »
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LV LOU -  
 
on Mar 1st, 2015, 11:22am, LV LOU wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Vern,I think the red car is a Lehigh Valley gas electric Doodle Bug..

Your writer inclined to go along with the presumption. The LV was an early adopter of Motor Cars, so to provide reliable services  
in and out of lightly traveled branch line points. Such being the case, then it gives us earliest possible date of the view  
(shown above in TAB message).
 
Meanwhile. Should have an old "Open And Prepay Station" tariff book which can report which lines held out services at  
Lopez, at least circa 1962. The LV routing is obvious. Your writer wonders whether it also DL&W....
 
Vern


« Last Edit: May 12th, 2015, 1:13pm by Flemington Flyer » Logged

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Bowmans_Creek_Bra
Railfan
Posts: 155
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #8 on: May 8th, 2015, 4:30pm »
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All,
 
The standard LV station color was grey with a darker grey trim. In my research for the story of the Bowman's Creek Branch, I found that was the color of the station at Trucksville, Dallas (which I remember seeing) and Noxen.  There is no reason to believe that the station at Lopez would be any different.  Especially in the 1930's when things were very standardized.


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Bowmans_Creek_Bra
Railfan
Posts: 155
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #9 on: May 8th, 2015, 4:40pm »
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Lou,
 
To elaborate on my last post, all of my LV station and tower models are painted with reefer grey.  Then I mix a little black paint with the reefer grey to do the trim.  If you look at my article in FD&S from 1996 on the Bowman's Creek Branch (Vol. 13, No.1), you will see a close up of the side of the Lopez station in 1939-40, when the removal of the rails from Lopez to Mountain Springs was underway.
 
Harry


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LV LOU
Historian
Posts: 1127
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #10 on: May 9th, 2015, 1:06am »
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Thanks Harry!!


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scottychaos
Historian
Posts: 1342
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #11 on: May 12th, 2015, 8:46am »
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I think the grey was a later color..earlier was probably green with red trim, same as (or similar to) the DL&W scheme. here are a bunch of currently existing LV wood depots:
 
 
 
Green: Williamsville NY:
http://www.trainweb.org/wnyrhs/lvdepotFrame1Source1.htm
 
Green: Flemingville NY:
http://www.greaterowego.com/communitypress/1997/12-97/No12-3.JPG
(paint is 40 years old on that one, and faded/shifted)
 
Green: Newark valley NY
http://www.nvhistory.org/NewarkValleyDepot/index.html
 
Green: Owasco Lake NY
http://www.trainweb.org/rshs/GRS%20-Owasco%20Lake,%20NY.htm
 
Green: Naples NY
http://scotlawrence.smugmug.com/Railroads-3/LV-Tour-2015/i-CX5N2sp/0/O/IMG_7176.jpg
 
I doubt its a coincidence those are all in green!
although trim details vary.
 
Beige with green trim, another color variation, P&L junction NY:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1796695
 
Same color as P&L junction, Rochester Junction freight house replica, recently built:
http://www.mendonfoundation.com/images/stories/freighthousededication/LVRR%20RJ%2007%2031%202013_24_resize.JPG
 
Here is a nice example of grey, with green and red trim, Cazenovia NY
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jnos363/4825938805/in/album-72157623597966345/
 
Solid Grey, New Albany PA:
http://www.west2k.com/papix/newalbany.jpg
 
Grey, West Penn PA
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/9d891e12b680caef4beb4cc9e4e314f8.wix_mp_1024
 
 
I dont know exactly how historically accurate any of those are..or what research went into those paintschemes..although several of them have been done by historical societies..but it seems LV depot color, overall, is something that hasn't been extensively researched yet..
 
Its clear there was never ONE standard wood depot color, not for all eras and all locations. There was also 100 years of passenger service on the LV, that's a lot of time for a lot of variation.
 
Scot


« Last Edit: May 12th, 2015, 8:53am by scottychaos » Logged
Bowmans_Creek_Bra
Railfan
Posts: 155
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #12 on: May 12th, 2015, 11:07am »
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Scot,
 
When we researched for the ARHS Buffalo Division standard station kit and the restoration of the Noxen depot, we definitely established that the grey on grey scheme was standard. It was also standard on towers.  I can't remember the man's name right now, but he is the creator of the Lopez station kit that is still widely available and we had a conversation about his kit.  In the color photo on the box, he used grey as the overall color, but used green trim.  I asked him why he did that and he told me that his research also confirmed grey on grey, but he felt that he would sell more kits if he used a more colored trim.
 
Nothing I ever saw in my research ever made any reference to green and red as used by the Lackawanna.
 
Harry


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scottychaos
Historian
Posts: 1342
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #13 on: May 12th, 2015, 12:42pm »
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on May 12th, 2015, 11:07am, Bowmans_Creek_Bra wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Scot,
 
When we researched for the ARHS Buffalo Division standard station kit and the restoration of the Noxen depot, we definitely established that the grey on grey scheme was standard. It was also standard on towers.  I can't remember the man's name right now, but he is the creator of the Lopez station kit that is still widely available and we had a conversation about his kit.  In the color photo on the box, he used grey as the overall color, but used green trim.  I asked him why he did that and he told me that his research also confirmed grey on grey, but he felt that he would sell more kits if he used a more colored trim.
 
Nothing I ever saw in my research ever made any reference to green and red as used by the Lackawanna.
 
Harry

 
Thanks Harry,
I believe you that the grey on grey was standard..
but..
standard when?
 
I can absolutely believe that grey on grey was a LV standard at some point..
but I highly doubt it was *always* standard..that is virtually impossible.
1890's probably looked very different from 1940's..
so it all comes down to era..
 
Scot


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scottychaos
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Posts: 1342
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #14 on: May 12th, 2015, 1:13pm »
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Here is a modeler who did research on LV depot schemes:
 
http://www.living-in-the-past.com/depot.html
 
He determined the 2-tone grey dates at least to the 1940's, possibly the 20's.
Harry, does that match your research?
 
So for most LV modelers, modeling 1940's to 1970's, the 2-tone grey is a safe bet..but I still doubt it was the original color for most of those depots..
 
He made a mistake on the Owego depot though..I think he might have assumed that was a LV-era photo, because of the paint scheme on the RS1, but thats a 1990's Tioga Central photo, so the yellow depot color has no historic relevance. (and ive seen 1960's or 1970's LV photos of the depot..it was grey then.)
 
I will ask Genesee Country Villiage where they got the color scheme for their P&L depot:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1796695
 
and the WNYRHS probably also did some research for their depot:
http://www.trainweb.org/wnyrhs/lvdepotFrame1Source1.htm
 
those depots date from the 1890's and the LV extension to Buffalo..
I'll see what I can dig up..
Scot


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LVRR2095
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Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #15 on: May 12th, 2015, 1:40pm »
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I spent many, many hours in LVRR buildings at Jersey City, Oak Island, Perth Amboy, South Plainfield, Easton, Lehighton and Coxton and all of the wooden buildings were gray with dark gray almost black trim. I don't think one of them had been painted since the 1920's, some probably not since they were built. There was no evidence of them ever having been painted any other colors. The paint was worn off and there was no evidence of any other color beneath the gray. You would think that if they had ever been any other color....tiny remnants would be left on the inside of door frames or window mullions.  
Keith   (the one that now lives in Maine)


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Bowmans_Creek_Bra
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Posts: 155
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #16 on: May 12th, 2015, 3:09pm »
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Scot and Keith,
 
Of course, it has been a number of years since we researched the colors for the ARHS kit and the Noxen depot; however, like Keith says, the wooden structures I have seen and examined showed no sign of any other paint but grey on grey.  The Noxen station was built in 1887, following the Buffalo Division Type 3 station plan.  Dallas was built around the same time, as was Shavertown, Trucksville, Alderson, Ricketts, Bernice, Lopez, Dushore, New Albany.  Yes, all of these stations were on the Bowman's Creek/ State Line and Sullivan Branches, meaning that they came along in the 1886-1893 timeframe. That was 30 plus years after the LV got its start, so it is conceivable that other colors were used very early on.  But, I believe that we have to say that there is a strong possibility that grey on grey dates back to the late 1880's or early 1890's.
 
Harry


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scottychaos
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Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #17 on: May 13th, 2015, 11:55am »
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Thanks Keith and Harry,
very interesting stuff!  
I would have never suspected the grey paint went back that far..but could be!
still some mysteries here..We have three groups in Western NY that have recently repainted depots..two original LV depots: Williamsville and P&L junction. and a replica at Rochester Junction..im going to ask around about how they came up with their colors..
 
this discussion revived my interest in another related topic that goes back several years..that of the LV Type 3 depots..I just resurrected a thread here:
 
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=95909&p=1330680#p1330680
 
thanks,
Scot


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Bowmans_Creek_Bra
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Posts: 155
Re: Color of Lopez Station?
 
« Reply #18 on: May 13th, 2015, 1:22pm »
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Scot,
 
I had a few minutes this morning to check Archer's book to try and get a look at the very early years.  On page 66, he shows a picture of the new station at Coxton in 1870.  It is a very light color with no distinction between the trim and the main part of the building.  I also saw some other pictures that seem to indicate raw unpainted wood. I'm sure that in the very early days, paint and making things neat and tidy was not the order of the day.  In one book I have seen, there is a picture of an early steam locomotive at Falls (possibly the Eagle) and the whole railroad area looks like a dump.
 
I wish that I knew more about building paints from the 19th century.  Besides the fact that paint was full of lead and probably other nasty things, I don't know what colors tended to be more widely available or preferred.  At the same time, Civil War era locomotives, tenders and passenger cars tended to be very brightly painted.
 
If I sum up our discussion over the last couple of days, I believe that in the early days it was raw wood or anything goes with color of paint.  Whatever they could get their hands on, they used. Sometime later, and we will probably never know for sure, the grey on grey scheme was adopted and by the 1920's it had become standard.
 
Last evening, I received a text from a friend who is a cemetery custodian on the old Bowman's Creek ROW in Dallas, PA.  He was digging, perhaps for a grave, and unearthed a metal plate with two spikes and wanted to know what it was.  It was a fishplate.  He then asked me how old it was.  That sent me to my original LVRR accident albums that Keith helped me to acquire some years ago.  At least on the Bowman's Creek Branch, there were no fishplates in photos from 1915, but there were fishplates in photos dated 1924. It might be interesting to find out when the fishplates came into general use.
 
Harry


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jgh3
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Re: Color of Lopez Station?
  Dushore_Station_Colors.png - 190156 Bytes
« Reply #19 on: Aug 17th, 2016, 12:59pm »
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Sorry, little late and my first post.
 
As an addend, the color photo is a colorized black and white so the colors are guesses.
 
The Dushore Station is currently painted grey with red trim (see attached photo).
 
Probably, to the best of my Mother, Aunts and Uncles recollection (mostly gone now) the Station was Grey with dark gray trim, but they all remember a red wainscot and yellow/amber walls just like the current Dushore Station (See attached photo).
 
Looking at the paint chips, these are close to the original colors, the Station was owned by the old Editor of the Sullivan Review and he tried to keep the Station as close to original as he could.
 
That all being said, I know that the LVRR was a buisness and tried to save money any way they could, however my model Stations for Ricketts, Lopez, Berice, Satterfield and Dushore are all exterior mid gray with Cornell red trim, interior yellow/amber walls, Cornell Red wainscot and dark brown floors. i think they look better with red trim.
 
Hope this is of help to someone, and if I am wrong I would like to know the truth more than anyone!


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/LV/Dushore_Station_Colors.png
Click Image to Resize

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