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LV AROUND GENEVA NY
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davidyur
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LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« on: Aug 11th, 2005, 3:18pm »
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I was recently up to Rochester and Geneva.  Driving from Rochester to Geneva, I stopped by Manchester, saw roundhouse, etc., in Shortsville, there LV station is now a restaurant (had lunch there) and a NS freight went through while I was at station.  The old LV freight station is now a LV musuem, but must make appointment to see it.  Stopped in Clifton Springs, station now a library.  Then drove up to Fair Haven State Park - it appears nothing is left of LV there, but would like to know what part of park was LV loading dock.  Also, in Geneva, exactly WHERE WAS GENEVA JUNCTION??  Can never figure it out.  I saw some old bridge abuttments that looked like they would have carried LV tracks over to the park next to the Ramada in, but how?   Also, the bit of the main still standing goes over 5-20 on a bridge, but WHERE DID THE ITHACA BRANCH INTEGRATE WITH THE FREIGHT MAIN AT GENEVA JUNCTION?
 
Thanks for any info


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davidyur
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Posts: 244
Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #1 on: Aug 11th, 2005, 3:30pm »
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Hi,  
 
One correction - the freight was actually Finger Lakes Railroad, not NS, I think.  Also, When driving back from North Fair Haven, someone told me about a museum in Sterling, NY, which I stopped by but which was also closed.  They said it had a lot of LV stuff in it.  So, next year I'll try to see that museum and the one in Shortsville.


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RARITAN_CLOCKER
Former Member
Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #2 on: Aug 11th, 2005, 4:11pm »
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davidyur: just some "Geneva" trivia: In 1876, the LV won control of the the Geneva, Ithaca, & Sayre RR; its controlling interest in the upstate rail line enabled the LV to extend its route mileage as far west as Geneva, NY, 97 miles from Buffalo. The new Geneva terminus gave the LV and the PA&NY a valuable connection with the New York Central, where coal, freight, and passengers could be interchanged for Canadaigua, Auburn, Lyons, and other points on the New York Central. Situated at the foot of Seneca Lake, Geneva's lush setting made it a favorite destination for summer excursionists.  By 1891, the grading of LV's Geneva-Buffalo and Van Ettenville-Geneva rights of way were nearly completed. Geneva was also graced by a stately, gabled-roofed passenger station that served the LV for many years.

« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2005, 4:12pm by RARITAN_CLOCKER » Logged
Matthew_L
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #3 on: Aug 11th, 2005, 4:18pm »
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David, RC posts alluded to the location of the split, but I'll make it little clearer.  The LV freight line to buffalo and the passenger line split at Van Etten.  Ironically, the latter line still sees freight servie today.
 
Also, do yourself a favor and check out the shortline Ontario Cental RR, which runs on the former LV main between Shortsville and Victor.  One of their engines is an ex-NKP RS-36.  Considering the run-through power shared by LV and NKP, it's almost like  the RS-36 is on home rails...


« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2005, 7:49pm by Matthew_L » Logged

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scottychaos
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #4 on: Aug 12th, 2005, 10:47am »
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Those big bridge abutments on route 14 in Geneva are the LV main.
the Geneva station still exists, just west of those abutments.
 
I just made a map:
 

 
Today, the Finger Lakes RR operates all the former NYC lines.
the lines in blue.
The only LV tracks that still exist are a remnant of the freight main, starting at the junction of the LV and the NYC, (right at the "S" in "Seneca Canal")
and extending south to the Seneca Army Depot.
FGLK doesnt operate the line, they use it mostly for storage of cars.
but the rails are in place.
only the NYC lines are active routes.
 
The LV tracks are gone from the LV/NYC junction West,
and the LV passenger main to Ithaca, and the Seneca Falls branch are gone.
 
The LV station still exists..no rails next to it.
http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=28607&cat=500&page=1
 
Scot


« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2005, 10:48am by scottychaos » Logged
scottychaos
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #5 on: Aug 12th, 2005, 12:03pm »
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For amazingly detailed aerial photos, go to:
 
http://maps.google.com/
 
search for Geneva, NY,
zoom in on the finger lakes engine house, and switch to "satellite view"..
you can see how the LV main passed OVER the NYC through here..
follow the LV main west, you can see where it crossed over route 14.
then look just beyond the LV station.
a cul-de-sac with 3 houses has been built ON the LV main!
one of the houses is literally right on top of the mainline!
 
I wonder if the ghost of the Black Diamond ever passes through the house on dark and stormy nights??
 
Scot
 
 


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davidyur
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Posts: 244
Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #6 on: Aug 12th, 2005, 12:38pm »
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Thanks all for the information on LV in Geneva.  Scott, I feel like I have my own personal LV historian/archeologist at my fingertips!   Your work is wonderful.  I now see from your map that Geneva Junction was much further east than I thought, almost toward the other side of Seneca Lake.  I guess no trace of it is there now.  
 
One more thing then.  From your map it appears that the LV tracks still remaining going to Sampson Naval Base would have already included the Ithaca Branch track, which would have joined them at Geneva Junction a little further east.  Is that correct?
 
Thanks again to everyone.


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scottychaos
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #7 on: Aug 12th, 2005, 1:24pm »
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thanks David!
glad to be of help..
 
im not sure what you mean about the Samson naval base tracks..
the tracks into the naval base came off of the "Freight Main"..not the line to Ithaca.
The LV had tracks into the Seneca Army Depot off of both lines however..
 
 
The "NY interactive mapping gateway" shows building still intact at the Navy base!
I dont know what year that aerial photo is from though..
 
http://www1.nysgis.state.ny.us/tempimages/ABA7632D-F1F6-A1A2-E38891119C0EA7A9.gif
 
http://www1.nysgis.state.ny.us/tempimages/ABA84233-F1F6-A1A2-EEF467952A813152.gif
 
those are temporary images..im not sure how long they last..
if they are dead links, just go to the "New York interactive mapping gateway" and you can find them again:
 
 
 
ok..I think I found the junction..(I have never tried to look for it in person, I should do that!)
 
the three LV lines came together right at the Seneca canal..on the NE corner of the lake. Today, only one line still has rails..the "freight main"..
The bridge carrying the freight main over the canal is still there.
and it looks like the bridge for the Ithaca line is still there too!!
never noticed that before!
 
here is the aerial photo:
 
http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/LV-genevajunction01.jpg
 
and here is the same image with the lines drawn in..
 
http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/LV-genevajunction.jpg
 
im pretty sure these are right..
I drew them in by looking at the old ROWs..
open them in 2 seperate windows, and you can flicker between them!  
 
looks like modern construction of 96A has probably wiped out all traces of the junction between the Freight main and the Ithaca line..
but the junction between the Ithaca line and the Seneca Falls branch should still be out there in the weeds!
I have no idea if you can get to it or not..
might be private and/or dangerous property..
 
Scot


« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2005, 1:26pm by scottychaos » Logged
davidyur
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Posts: 244
Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #8 on: Aug 15th, 2005, 3:58pm »
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Hi Scott,
 
Thanks again and congratulations!   I'm hoping you can do for Geneva Junction what you did for Van Etten Junction!!  Looking forward to it, and looking forward to get up there next year and poke around the weeds.
 
Regards,
davidyur


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Matthew_L
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #9 on: Aug 15th, 2005, 7:55pm »
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Oops, I forgot there Passenger main had to reconnect with the Freight Main near Geneva!  Nice thread- the map is very helpful.  I'm still on a mission to retrace at least part of the old LV route, as this this is the 30th anniversary of her final year of operation.

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Marian_Johnson
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
  Asahel_C_Walker_tunnel_edited.jpg - 186976 Bytes
« Reply #10 on: Oct 26th, 2005, 6:50pm »
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I found your discussion about the LV around Geneva through Google, and thought you all could help me.  I have two large pictures which include my great-grandfather, Asahel Walker.  One picture is of a group of men who apparently worked on a building project.  The other picture is of a large arch made from possibly granite large rectangular rocks.  At the bottom of one picture it says Lehigh Valley Branch Geneva & Vanettenville RR.  It also lists the names of the men with their jobs - bookkeeper, timekeeper, rodman?, husier?, levleman?, contractor, engineer, transman?, and resident engineer.  The other picture looks like it says "Stella Arch."  On the back it says West End 127 Arch Curry? Creek.  My grandfather married a girl from Watkins Glen in December 1892.  Is this enough information to figure out where this arch is located?
 



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scottychaos
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #11 on: Oct 27th, 2005, 9:02am »
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on Oct 26th, 2005, 6:50pm, Marian_Johnson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I found your discussion about the LV around Geneva through Google, and thought you all could help me.  I have two large pictures which include my great-grandfather, Asahel Walker.  One picture is of a group of men who apparently worked on a building project.  The other picture is of a large arch made from possibly granite large rectangular rocks.  At the bottom of one picture it says Lehigh Valley Branch Geneva & Vanettenville RR.  It also lists the names of the men with their jobs - bookkeeper, timekeeper, rodman?, husier?, levleman?, contractor, engineer, transman?, and resident engineer.  The other picture looks like it says "Stella Arch."  On the back it says West End 127 Arch Curry? Creek.  My grandfather married a girl from Watkins Glen in December 1892.  Is this enough information to figure out where this arch is located?
 

 
MArian,
thats a great photo!  
"Lehigh Valley Branch Geneva & Vanettenville RR" gives the best clue to its location..
this is probably a photo of a bridge culvert built during the construction of the Lehigh Valley RR mainline between VanEtten and Geneva in the late 1880's.
the mainline was opened in 1892!
so that fits your grandfather's timeline perfectly!
 
there are only a billion streams the LV would have crossed between VanEtten and Geneva!  
but another clue "curry creek" narrows it WAY down!
doing a google search for "curry creek ny"
brought up a genealogical listing for a cemetary in Hector, NY.
 
Hector is on the east side of Seneca lake, just north of Watkins Glen..right on the LV main!
 
the 1901 topo map:
http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.cfm?fname=watk01ne.jpg&state=NY
shows a "sawmill creek" at Hector, and a smaller un-named creek south of it.
 
lets go north one map:
http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.cfm?fname=ovid02sw.jpg&state=NY
 
HA! there it is! Curry creek! woo!  
 
 
google aerial photos dont give us enough resolution, so we need to switch to the NYS interactive mapping gateway:
http://www.nysgis.state.ny.us/gateway/mg/
 
Curry creek is two streams south of Breakneck creek:
http://www1.nysgis.state.ny.us/tempimages/32239F99-F1F6-A1A2-E18D67C95FD57D83.gif
 
zooming right in where he LV crossed Curry creek we can see:
http://www1.nysgis.state.ny.us/tempimages/322560A2-F1F6-A1A2-EFD517CC2B9EE0FE.gif
not enough to tell if the culvert is still there or not..
but it likely is!  
I wouldnt be surprised if that culvert is still out in the woods..
the LV tracks are gone, probably a trail through there.
its likely private property, but there looks to be a farm on the edge of the creek,
might be possible to get permission to take a hike back in there!
hmmmmmm.....
 
 
here is the aerial photo with relevant stuff drawn in:
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/1430/lvrrnearhectorny6fy.jpg
 
(I love this stuff!   )
Scot
 
 
 
 
 


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Marian_Johnson
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #12 on: Oct 27th, 2005, 11:06am »
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A thousand thanks to you, Scot, for the information.  That is exactly what I was looking for.
 
Marian


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davidyur
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Posts: 244
Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #13 on: Oct 27th, 2005, 12:36pm »
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Hi,
I started this topic, and appreciate all the info from everyone.  On reviewing my original post, I realize I was mistaken when I called the Shortsville, NY a LV station.  It was actually a NY Central station.  But there is a museum there in the NYC freight station, which wasn't open when I was there, which suposedly has a lot of LV stuff in it.
 
davidyur


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scottychaos
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #14 on: Oct 27th, 2005, 1:45pm »
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on Oct 27th, 2005, 12:36pm, davidyur wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hi,
I started this topic, and appreciate all the info from everyone.  On reviewing my original post, I realize I was mistaken when I called the Shortsville, NY a LV station.  It was actually a NY Central station.  But there is a museum there in the NYC freight station, which wasn't open when I was there, which suposedly has a lot of LV stuff in it.
 
davidyur

 
David,
that is the museum of the "Lehigh Valley Railroad Historical Society"
they are a LV-centric society, and yes, located in a former NYC station!
 
http://www.lvrrhs.org/
 
Scot


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streamline_j3
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Posts: 84
Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #15 on: Oct 28th, 2005, 5:27pm »
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There is an old LV station in Geneva and I have been there and have pictures of the building,  too bad I don,t have a scanner for them so I can send them to here.
   But for the directions I found it by accident by going north of the hospital there.
   Wish I can help more but I can't give directions if I can't remember them.
   I think there is a street just south of the old overpass on 14 but if you go right on that street you will find it.  I found that out by following the street pass the station and came out there.  The map on the preveous replies might help.


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davidyur
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Posts: 244
Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #16 on: Oct 31st, 2005, 5:43pm »
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The LV station in Geneva is on Genesee Street, which is about three or four blocks north of rtes 5 & 20.  It is in good condition and appears to be owend/used by someone. The tracks are all gone, however.  Last summer I tried to trace the Naples branch, and some of the roadbed is still walkable.  The LV station in Naples is still standing, not sure what it's used for.

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scottychaos
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #17 on: Nov 1st, 2005, 8:30am »
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Geneva station:
 
http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=28607&cat=500&page=1
 
Scot


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scottychaos
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #18 on: Nov 1st, 2005, 8:57am »
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the naples branch is a semi-developed bike trail from Naples northward.
(im not sure how far north)
I say "semi developed" because a trail group has actually done some work on the trail, but its still quite rough..
would be fine for walking, but I tried to bike it a few years ago..very rough for biking.
I turned around after half a mile..very rutted.
 
there is a parking lot for the trail along route 21 just north of Naples,
where the branch crossed route 21, the trail heads north from there:
 

 
 
there was a turntable in Naples..I have wanted to take a walk through town and see if there is any visable traces of a pit or other structures..
if there is, its probably in someones backyard!  
 
Scot


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Matthew_L
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Re: LV AROUND GENEVA NY
 
« Reply #19 on: Nov 1st, 2005, 9:50pm »
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Widmer Winery was the last customer of LV in Naples and I know that they built some new buildings over former location of the LV years, so the turntable pit might very well be gone.  The station, however, survives.  It sits next to the former RR embankment near the winery complex.  
 
Service to Naples ended suddenly on September 1, 1970- when the line was cut back to Rushville.


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Best wishes to all,
Matthew L

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P.S. All aboard for the last train to Hammondsport!
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