Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Nov 20th, 2017, 1:48pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


E60 questions
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Locomotives and Rolling Stock
   Electric Locomotives
(Moderators: Henry, ctempleton3)
   E60 questions
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: E60 questions  (Read 564 times)
Triplex
Railfan
View Profile  

Posts: 150
E60 questions
 
« on: Jan 10th, 2007, 12:04am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

The E60 confuses many railfans, because of the different models (E60C, E60CP, E60CH, E60MA, E60C-2). Different websites say conflicting information.
 
What current systems can the E60CP and E60CH use? I know different sections of the NEC use 11000V 25 Hz, 12500V 60 Hz, and 25000V 60 Hz. I've seen them identified as 25000V engines, and also as not being able to handle 25000V.
 
I suspect single-cab E60C-2s are a myth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_E60 states that the BM&LP ordered 2, but I've also heard this pair attributed to the Deseret Western. By all accounts, the DW only ordered two E60C-2s new, the rest being ex-NdeM units. I have seen photos from the DW with two double-ended E60C-2s in the same shot, excluding one wearing NdeM colors. I also have never seen photos of an engine looking like a single-ended E60C-2 on the BM&LP. I seem to recall that one model of an "E60" once produced was of a single-ended engine that wasn't an exact match for a BM&LP E60C. It was described as a second-generation version that was never made.


Logged

Fan of late and early Conrail... also transition-era PRR, 70s Santa Fe, BN and SP, 70s-80s eastern CN, pre-merger-era UP, heavy electric operations in general, dieselized narrow gauge, modern EFVM and Brazilian railroads in general, transition-era DB and DR... why bother trying to list them all?
GP72ACe

View Profile  

Posts: 849
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #1 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 12:49am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Quote:
What current systems can the E60CP and E60CH use? I know different sections of the NEC use 11000V 25 Hz, 12500V 60 Hz, and 25000V 60 Hz. I've seen them identified as 25000V engines, and also as not being able to handle 25000V
It's not so much what voltage/frequency they can operate on more than whether or not the motors have automatic variable-tap transformers, i.e. have multiple transformer taps and the ability to change between them on the fly.  AEM-7s, ALP-44/46s, Acela Express power cars and HHP-8s possess this manner of equipment; whereas I have never heard of any E60 with such a feature—they could run on several voltages/frequencies but the transformer taps would have to be changed out manually, IOW.
 
BTW, the Black Mesa & Lake Powell's overhead catenary system's voltage is 50kV; don't know what frequency, but I would guess 60Hz, what with it being part of a commercial power generation company…
 
As far as your E60C-2, I would take Wikipedia with a grain of salt, since anyone can edit those pages without needing an account there.  Report that page to Wikimedia, I would advise, if the information hasn't been verified…


Logged
Triplex
Railfan
View Profile  

Posts: 150
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #2 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 2:01pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Yes, the BM&LP is 60 Hz.  
 
That system is further evidence that they didn't order E60C-2s new. E60Cs are 50 kV, E60C-2s are 25 kV. I believe they're scavenging parts from the E60Cs to bring the Mexican E60C-2s into service.


Logged

Fan of late and early Conrail... also transition-era PRR, 70s Santa Fe, BN and SP, 70s-80s eastern CN, pre-merger-era UP, heavy electric operations in general, dieselized narrow gauge, modern EFVM and Brazilian railroads in general, transition-era DB and DR... why bother trying to list them all?
P+W_bullet_train
Former Member
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #3 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 2:06pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:01pm, Triplex wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Yes, the BM&LP is 60 Hz.  
 
That system is further evidence that they didn't order E60C-2s new. E60Cs are 50 kV, E60C-2s are 25 kV. I believe they're scavenging parts from the E60Cs to bring the Mexican E60C-2s into service.

I read they took the transformers off of the E-60C's to put on the ex-NdeM units.
 
E-60C:  Ordered new by BM&LP, single-ended
E-60CP:  Amtrak, steam heat-equipped
E-60CH, E-60MA:  Amtrak, HEP-equipped; one and the same, two different designations.
E-60C-2:  NdeM's units, now on Deseret Western and BM&LP


« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2007, 2:10pm by bullet_train » Logged
Triplex
Railfan
View Profile  

Posts: 150
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #4 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 3:28pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Quote:
I read they took the transformers off of the E-60C's to put on the ex-NdeM units.
That's what I was thinking of.
 
NdeM E60C-2s have also made it to Texas Utilities. And what about the AMT report on Wikipedia, or is that also erroneous?


Logged

Fan of late and early Conrail... also transition-era PRR, 70s Santa Fe, BN and SP, 70s-80s eastern CN, pre-merger-era UP, heavy electric operations in general, dieselized narrow gauge, modern EFVM and Brazilian railroads in general, transition-era DB and DR... why bother trying to list them all?
GP72ACe

View Profile  

Posts: 849
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #5 on: Jan 10th, 2007, 5:46pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

The report about AMT may be true, but it's certainly not setting the news wires ablaze.  That agency still has EMUs for any new service to Mascouche, if needed; although, what with the maximum speed of 65 mph, using E60s, assuming they are properly rebuilt for push-pull operations (versus not being able to use them thus on NJ Transit), would not be problematic, although the engines are at this point archaic.

Logged
Triplex
Railfan
View Profile  

Posts: 150
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #6 on: Feb 22nd, 2007, 11:36am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

On http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=67490&sid=2e88de0715d0a6a8dc4d3f4d5dd1b71d there's a rumor that GO Transit (!) bought a Mexican E60C-2 by 2004.

Logged

Fan of late and early Conrail... also transition-era PRR, 70s Santa Fe, BN and SP, 70s-80s eastern CN, pre-merger-era UP, heavy electric operations in general, dieselized narrow gauge, modern EFVM and Brazilian railroads in general, transition-era DB and DR... why bother trying to list them all?
GP72ACe

View Profile  

Posts: 849
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #7 on: Mar 2nd, 2007, 5:49pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I think you misunderstood the thread (and that's a forum I moderate, too)
 
The rumors were about GO Transit electrifying, not about them purchasing any E60s.


Logged
Triplex
Railfan
View Profile  

Posts: 150
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #8 on: Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:36am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Quote:
There are rumors about CalTrans in California going electric in the near future as well as GO Transit in Ontario....they even bought a E60c-2 from Mexico to study this further.
The other possible meaning is that CalTrans bought an E60C-2.


Logged

Fan of late and early Conrail... also transition-era PRR, 70s Santa Fe, BN and SP, 70s-80s eastern CN, pre-merger-era UP, heavy electric operations in general, dieselized narrow gauge, modern EFVM and Brazilian railroads in general, transition-era DB and DR... why bother trying to list them all?
Pennsy
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4586
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #9 on: Mar 3rd, 2007, 12:40pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hi All,
 
In Southern California, you will find catenary, but it is for LRV's. Therefore, the catenary will deliver 750 volts, DC, to the traction motors. In Northern California you will also have to look really hard to find high voltage AC that is high enough to power an E-60. Current requirements, in Amperes, might also put the brakes on your search. There once was a thread proposing that Santa Fe electrifiy Cajon Pass. That would have made more sense, and given a home to the E-60's. Can you imagine an E-60 in Warbonnet livery At the time, it was proposed that GG-1's would have more than filled the bill.


Logged

Dyed in the wool PRR fan.
GP72ACe

View Profile  

Posts: 849
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #10 on: Mar 4th, 2007, 8:44pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Just gotta point out that CalTrans and CalTrain are not the same thing.  CalTrans = California Department of Transportation, who sponsors Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner service.  CalTrain = commuter agency for trains between San Francisco and San José/Gilroy.  It is the latter that is supposed to be electrifying, not the former.

Logged
silver_champion
Historian
Posts: 888
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #11 on: Mar 5th, 2007, 7:55am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Mar 3rd, 2007, 12:40pm, Pennsy wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Hi All,
 
In Southern California, you will find catenary, but it is for LRV's. Therefore, the catenary will deliver 750 volts, DC, to the traction motors. In Northern California you will also have to look really hard to find high voltage AC that is high enough to power an E-60. Current requirements, in Amperes, might also put the brakes on your search. There once was a thread proposing that Santa Fe electrifiy Cajon Pass. That would have made more sense, and given a home to the E-60's. Can you imagine an E-60 in Warbonnet livery At the time, it was proposed that GG-1's would have more than filled the bill.

 
Bachmann had a HO scale model of the E60C-2 in Santa Fe Warbonnet.
It looked great. But the gearing was very bad.


Logged
Pennsy
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4586
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #12 on: Mar 5th, 2007, 12:45pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hi Yo Silver,
 
Glad to hear that you also agree that an E-60 would look fantastic in Red Warbonnet livery.  
 
I have heard such stories about Bachmann engines. The Train Stop, San Dimas, CA still has that Bachmann K-4 Pacific PRR steamer for sale. No change in price, and it still runs like an old Bachmann steamer. Nuff said about that one. I passed on it about a year ago. I have heard good things about the newer Bachmann K-4's, but so far have not examined one.  
 
My E-60 is a Bachmann, in Amtrak livery, and after I worked on it for awhile, it runs quite well. I guess I gave it the final "finishing touches". By the way, Athearn always had a reputation of actually running an engine before it made it to its box. Got friendly with the head of Quality Assurance at that time and he gave me all sorts of insights as to how Athearn worked, at that time.


Logged

Dyed in the wool PRR fan.
Triplex
Railfan
View Profile  

Posts: 150
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #13 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 12:14am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I was looking over some Amtrak photos, and I realized I couldn't tell the E60CPs from the E60CHs. Is there an external difference?

Logged

Fan of late and early Conrail... also transition-era PRR, 70s Santa Fe, BN and SP, 70s-80s eastern CN, pre-merger-era UP, heavy electric operations in general, dieselized narrow gauge, modern EFVM and Brazilian railroads in general, transition-era DB and DR... why bother trying to list them all?
RDG_4-8-4
Former Member
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #14 on: Mar 28th, 2007, 5:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

E-60CP had a steam generator, E-60CH/E-60MA have HEP.  The latter two designations were used interchangeably with the HEP-equipped E-60's.

Logged
Triplex
Railfan
View Profile  

Posts: 150
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #15 on: Mar 29th, 2007, 10:26am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I know the internal difference. My question is, can it be seen on the outside?

Logged

Fan of late and early Conrail... also transition-era PRR, 70s Santa Fe, BN and SP, 70s-80s eastern CN, pre-merger-era UP, heavy electric operations in general, dieselized narrow gauge, modern EFVM and Brazilian railroads in general, transition-era DB and DR... why bother trying to list them all?
RDG_4-8-4
Former Member
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #16 on: Mar 29th, 2007, 10:08pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

on Mar 29th, 2007, 10:26am, Triplex wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I know the internal difference. My question is, can it be seen on the outside?

 
 
Only by the numbers.  Otherwise I know of no spotting features.  Thanks for clarifying that question.


Logged
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #17 on: Apr 1st, 2007, 3:10pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Mar 29th, 2007, 10:26am, Triplex wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I know the internal difference. My question is, can it be seen on the outside?

 
 
E60MAs will stand out against the others because the MA versions had their number boards moved up, and the nose headlights deleted, only useing the ones with the number boards.
 
MA versions also had a white airconditioning box on the top, where areas the original E60CP lacked this.  
 
numbers will be in the 600 range for MA units.


Logged





RDG_4-8-4
Former Member
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #18 on: Apr 2nd, 2007, 11:26am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

I'm not sure if those could be used as spotting features, although very true about the headlight and number board relocations.  There were two E-60CP's that never received HEP, although they received the aforementioned mods:  Nos. 620 and 621, which were used either in work train service or as lead units where double-heading was necessary (well, not really necessary per se, but you get the idea).  The second unit would provide the HEP.
 
I have a Bachmann E-60 that was originally No. 951, but like the real No. 951 I renumbered it 609, along with the authentic modifications.


Logged
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: E60 questions
 
« Reply #19 on: Apr 5th, 2007, 7:07pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

well you know if you see that, its an MA variant.  the CP and the CH are pretty much the same except for the steam heat/HEP, so i don't think the details were any different. you just need to know the numbers.

Logged





Pages: 1 2  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »