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The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
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   The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
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   Author  Topic: The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes  (Read 81 times)
ehbowen
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The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
 
« on: Dec 19th, 2014, 4:50am »
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It's baa-aack....
 
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com...hyperloop-ceo-says-speed-tube-could-become-reality/
 
Of course, everyone knows that the antiquated 19th century technology now under construction between L.A. and San Fran is a political boondoggle that can never work. But the magic of private enterprise will bring this 750 mph semi-evacuated tube in on time under budget, with no worries about right-of-way acquisition or construction overruns. <sarcasm OFF>


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George_Harris
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Re: The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
 
« Reply #1 on: Dec 19th, 2014, 3:31pm »
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Now, now:  Let's not get too bothered about the laws of physics or other realities here.
 
Actually, the vacuum tube system that seems to be the basis of this concept goes back to the 19th century.  It was not successful then.  
 
Let's do a few things here:  Calculate the volume of people, and I mean in cubic feet that have to make the trip.  How big a box do you need?  Then how big a travel way do you need?  You will get around to needing a box about 4 or 6 people plus walkway wide, whether bus, train, plane, or vacuum tube.  Then you will need one for each direction.  Wow! you are up to the size of a double track railroad for your vacuum tube line.  Then, how about capacity?  You gotta have more that little capsules.  You are back up to train size people containers.  
 
Then, let's looks at the basis of mechanical physics, such things as acceleration, speeding slowing, and making curves.  OK, to reduce run time you must drastically increase speed.  That means much larger radius curves.  Pause and think about this for a while.  
 
Let's think of such mundane things as crossing farmland, towns, mountains, fault lines.  Then there are such things as provisions for evacuation, fire-life-safety, etc.
 
I refrain from comment on the people making these pronouncements other than to say the list does not appear to include any that have dealt with the reality of getting a transportation line of any sort in operation between points A and B.


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HwyHaulier
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Posts: 3439
Re: The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
 
« Reply #2 on: Dec 20th, 2014, 8:57am »
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George - Lodge Members -
 
Hmmmm... Ages back (though many should recall) "pneumatic tube shuttles" worked just fine in office buildings.  
Also, 'department stores' long before cash registers at points of sale. Then, at 'drive in' slots at my local bank, it  
gets the transactions back and forth to the bank teller.
 
You are taking the position that just because it works at the local Bank branch, it doesn't mean it can be 'scaled up'  
to carry riders? There are Laws Of Physics to consider? Hmmmm...
 
............................Vern..............................


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ClydeDET
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Re: The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
 
« Reply #3 on: Dec 20th, 2014, 7:19pm »
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Oh Vern - It CAN be scaled up. And work, too. But the Laws of Physics are ALWAYS gonna have their say, and what they will say is "You can do it - but it is gonna cost...".

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ClydeDET
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Re: The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
 
« Reply #4 on: Jan 16th, 2015, 8:48pm »
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Appears Elon Musk is saying that he needs to build a five mile test facility to do tests on actual hardware, and Tejas is the preferred location. We shall see what happens.

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George_Harris
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Re: The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
 
« Reply #5 on: Jan 17th, 2015, 12:49am »
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on Dec 20th, 2014, 7:19pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Oh Vern - It CAN be scaled up. And work, too. But the Laws of Physics are ALWAYS gonna have their say, and what they will say is "You can do it - but it is gonna cost...".

And the papers in these pneumatic tube shuttles did not care how many G's the pulled in acceleration, braking and turning corners.  People do.  Hence, the norm in rail transit is to pull no more than 0.1G, and in the longer distance trains generally it is kept to 0.05G.  
 
Doing the math, a five mile test run will not prove much.  The Shanghai maglev is an outstanding example of this:  Half the run is spent accelerating and the other half braking.  Even if we were to do this with Mr. Musk's scheme, keeping it at 0.1G acceleration all the way up, and the power required to do this at higher speeds is best described as huge, the maximum speed achieved would be 198 mph.  Since current high speed railroad systems achieve this speed, this proves exactly nothing.


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HwyHaulier
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Re: The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
 
« Reply #6 on: Jan 17th, 2015, 7:54am »
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George - Clyde - Lodge Members -
 
Elon Musk is a misunderstood genius, right?
 
George; Thanks for the "G Forces" discussion. Your writer, on several instances, a rider on lightly loaded Boeing 737 types,  
better on cold and clear mornings. In each case, Captain wanted to get out of town in a hurry. It made for a good ride. Always  
fun. Not for low time, "white knuckles" riders...
 
.........................Vern.........................


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ClydeDET
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Re: The Hyperloop...L.A.-S.F. in 35 minutes
 
« Reply #7 on: Jan 17th, 2015, 3:14pm »
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on Jan 17th, 2015, 12:49am, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

And the papers in these pneumatic tube shuttles did not care how many G's the pulled in acceleration, braking and turning corners.  People do.  Hence, the norm in rail transit is to pull no more than 0.1G, and in the longer distance trains generally it is kept to 0.05G.  
 
Doing the math, a five mile test run will not prove much.  The Shanghai maglev is an outstanding example of this:  Half the run is spent accelerating and the other half braking.  Even if we were to do this with Mr. Musk's scheme, keeping it at 0.1G acceleration all the way up, and the power required to do this at higher speeds is best described as huge, the maximum speed achieved would be 198 mph.  Since current high speed railroad systems achieve this speed, this proves exactly nothing.

 
Thanks for validating my suspicions about just how likely the hyper loop is to be a practical proposition. But if we can get Herr Musk to build his test facility here in Tejas (as long is it is without financial participation by the taxpayers), fine with me.


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