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Infrastructure
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   Author  Topic: Infrastructure  (Read 1528 times)
Lfire83
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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #20 on: May 28th, 2010, 7:24pm »
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on May 28th, 2010, 9:44am, Henry wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
CP DRAW in Buffalo, NY, the Buffalo River crossing. The ex-NKP bridge is permanently welded in the up position and the ex-Buffalo Creek bridge still in use by CSX as part of their Chicago main, by NS as a connection between their NKP and Erie lines and B&P to connect NS' ex-PRR line to the B&P yard. CN, South Buffalo and Buffalo Southern also make appearances.
 
Henry

 
 
Correct!  


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Lfire83
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Re: Infrastructure
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« Reply #21 on: May 31st, 2010, 1:03am »
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Union Pacific's double track crossing of the Mississippi in St Louis.  The Manufacturers Railway also crosses the river here.

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« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2010, 10:42pm by Lfire83 » Logged

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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #22 on: Jun 1st, 2010, 11:27pm »
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on May 31st, 2010, 1:03am, Lfire83 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Union Pacific's double track crossing of the Mississippi in St Louis. The only double deck all-railroad bridge I have seen; the miles of support work leading up to it is just as impressive. The top deck has been partially disassembled, but the traffic volume crossing here is still heavy on the bottom deck. The Manufacturers Railway also crosses the river here.

This bridge is the MacArthur Bridge.  It was opened in 1917.  this bridge was city owned.  From Bridgehunter:  
http://bridgehunter.com/mo/st-louis-city/macarthur/
 
It was "Built 1907-1917 by the City of St. Louis to break the monopoly of the Terminal Railroad Association, which controlled the two other bridges at St. Louis and charged unreasonable tolls."  
 
The lengths:
Longest span: 677 ft.
Total length: 18,261 ft.
 
In September 1989 the City of St. Louis and the Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis agreed to a swap in ownership of this bridge with the Eads Bridge.  (Another source says the swap occurred on August 31, 1989.
 
By the time of the swap, road traffic had ceased on the MacArthur Bridge and rail traffic had ceased on the TRRA owned Eads Bridge.  
 
The roadway on the MacArthur bridge was closed (in 1981??) due to the opening of newer bridges for road traffic and the poor geometry of the approach roadways to the MacArthur Bridge.  The railroad deck on the Eads Bridge no longer carried trains due to low clearances.   I understand that the roadway deck of the Eads bridge was also by that time, but do not have certain information on that.
 
The instigating factor behind the swap was the decision to construct the MetroLink light rail line in St. Louis.  By obtaining the Eads Bridge, and the associated tunnels to near Union Station, a river crossing was possible at minimal cost.  
 
From the railroad perspective, the swap gave railroads ownership to the bridge that they used.
 
Therefore we had a swap that was of benefit to both sides.
 
Metrolink began operation across the bridge in 1993 and the upper deck was reopened to both road and pedestrian traffic, as a four lane road, in 2003.
 
http://bridgehunter.com/mo/st-louis-city/eads/
 
The Eads bridge also has a very interesting history.  It was the first bridge across the Mississippi River at St. Louis.  Was opened in 1874, the bridge company declared bankruptcy in 1875, most likely because of some underhanded acts by the railroad companies that had agreed to use it, and was sold to Jay Gould in 1878 for about half what it cost to build.
 
A couple other facts:
Longest span: 533.0 ft.
Total length: 4,024.9 ft.
Roadway deck width: 45.9 ft.


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Lfire83
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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #23 on: Jun 3rd, 2010, 10:40pm »
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Thanks for the info. It certainly is one ugly brute of a bridge, especially when compared with the Metrolink crossing a few hundred yards down the river.

« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2010, 10:42pm by Lfire83 » Logged

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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #24 on: Jun 3rd, 2010, 10:57pm »
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on Jun 3rd, 2010, 10:40pm, Lfire83 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Thanks for the info. It certainly is one ugly brute of a bridge, especially when compared with the Metrolink crossing a few hundred yards down the river.

And the Metrolink is operating across a bridge that is structurally the same as it was in 1874 when originall built.  The tracks may have been replaced and the roadway deck replaced, but the arches and piers are the original.


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ehbowen
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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #25 on: Jun 4th, 2010, 7:59am »
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on Jun 3rd, 2010, 10:57pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

And the Metrolink is operating across a bridge that is structurally the same as it was in 1874 when originall built.  The tracks may have been replaced and the roadway deck replaced, but the arches and piers are the original.  

 
I wonder if those arches [in the Eads Bridge] will make it to the bicentennial in 2074?
 
I'm pretty sure the piers will, having been driven all the way down to bedrock in what I understand was the first large-scale use of pneumatic caisson technology on this side of the Atlantic. And they lost a lot of good men to "caisson disease" in those early days before they fully understood the hazards of "the bends".


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2010, 8:00am by ehbowen » Logged

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ehbowen
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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #26 on: Jun 4th, 2010, 8:41am »
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on Jun 1st, 2010, 11:27pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

This bridge is the MacArthur Bridge.  It was opened in 1917.  this bridge was city owned.  From Bridgehunter:  
http://bridgehunter.com/mo/st-louis-city/macarthur/
 
It was "Built 1907-1917 by the City of St. Louis to break the monopoly of the Terminal Railroad Association, which controlled the two other bridges at St. Louis and charged unreasonable tolls."  

 
I stopped by the library in St. Louis in the early '90s and read up on some old newspaper articles about the Mississippi bridges. IIRC, the MacArthur Bridge (originally the St. Louis Municipal Bridge; renamed in 1942 according to Wikipedia) was originally sold to the taxpayers of St. Louis as a "free" bridge...in other words, tolls would be charged only until the construction bonds were paid off (10-15 yrs?), after which time the bridge would be "free".
 
Unfortunately, bridges need maintenance and politicians need money, so after a brief period as a free crossing the toll booths were reopened to stay. A lot of citizens were upset about that and some even took the matter to court, but the courts ruled that the city owned the bridge and was within their rights to impose tolls; the actions of a present or future city council could not be bound by the promises of a former city council.
 
 
Quote:
The roadway on the MacArthur bridge was closed (in 1981??) due to the opening of newer bridges for road traffic and the poor geometry of the approach roadways to the MacArthur Bridge.  The railroad deck on the Eads Bridge no longer carried trains due to low clearances.   I understand that the roadway deck of the Eads bridge was also by that time, but do not have certain information on that.

 
The roadway deck of the Eads bridge was still open to vehicular and pedestrian traffic when I visited in the early '90s. Highway traffic was still charged tolls, so traffic was light as there was a free alternative (the Poplar Street bridge carrying Interstate traffic). I walked and drove across the bridge; my toll receipt read "Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis". Wish I'd kept it.
 
In the 1987 movie Planes, Trains and Automobiles there is a shot of the bus carrying the Steve Martin and John Candy characters across the Eads bridge, supposedly to enter St. Louis. However, the plot has them entering from the west, specifically Jefferson City. You don't cross the Eads bridge entering St. Louis from Jefferson City. But, in Hollywood, inconvenient facts never get in the way of an pretty visual image.


« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2010, 8:55am by ehbowen » Logged

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ClydeDET
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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #27 on: Jun 4th, 2010, 6:27pm »
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There is a book on the Eads Bridge from 1979 (Miller, Howard S. and Quinta Scott; The Eads Bridge University of Missouri Press; Columbia & London: 1979) that has a lot of interest in it. I'd judge there is a fair chance it will still be up and operating in 2074, but no guarantees. Esepcailly if the New Madrid Fault goes again (and it's due...).

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Lfire83
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Re: Infrastructure
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« Reply #28 on: Jun 4th, 2010, 8:08pm »
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The Manufacturers Railway in St Louis, serving the Budweiser plant.

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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #29 on: Jun 4th, 2010, 8:26pm »
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on Jun 4th, 2010, 8:08pm, Lfire83 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The Manufacturers Railway in St Louis, serving the Budweiser plant.
Nice, all I have ever seen is their cars near the brewery in Williamsburg, VA.
CHESSIEMIKE


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HwyHaulier
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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #30 on: Jun 5th, 2010, 8:25am »
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on Jun 4th, 2010, 8:41am, ehbowen wrote:       (Click here for original message)
...But, in Hollywood, inconvenient facts never get in the way of an pretty visual image.

ehb -  
 
In this example, you use either specific language, or are exhibiting much charity, or both? Some might suggest should read:  
But, in Hollywood, Washington and most all State Capitols...? <G>
 
.....................Vern...................


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Lfire83
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Re: Infrastructure
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« Reply #31 on: Jun 5th, 2010, 10:09pm »
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I'll do ya one better, ChessieMike-
258 running the daily transfer over to the TRRA yard


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« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2010, 9:00pm by Lfire83 » Logged

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Re: Infrastructure
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« Reply #32 on: Jun 17th, 2010, 9:11pm »
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Interesting bridge piers on the abandoned PRR low grade line in Brookville, PA. Last run on by the B&P Railroad several years ago when the rails were pulled up to the Sligo coal mine.  
 
It would appear the grade was lowered at some point, as the piers are cut down in the middle.


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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #33 on: Jun 19th, 2010, 6:30pm »
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on Jun 17th, 2010, 9:11pm, Lfire83 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Interesting bridge piers on the abandoned PRR low grade line in Brookville, PA. Last run on by the B&P Railroad several years ago when the rails were pulled up to the Sligo coal mine.  
 
It would appear the grade was lowered at some point, as the piers are cut down in the middle.

More likely the original bridge was a through bridge of some sort, could have even been two short through truss spans.  The width of the pier and abutment seem in the picture make that seem the mostl likely type of bridge initially.
 
Stone bridge piers have sufficent capacity that they can normally hold up mch greater weight than the that of the original bridge.  Also normally true of concrete.  That is why frequently you will see new superstructures on old piers.
 
Generally railroads do not like through bridges particularly truss types, as a derailment can take out a span.  Of course, for really long span bridges, there is no practical alternative.


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Lfire83
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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #34 on: Jun 19th, 2010, 8:57pm »
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I thought it may have been two through truss spans originally, but they would be quite short. Considering the money PRR spent constructing the low grade, with it's 5 tunnels, you would think they would've splurged on a bowstring truss to avoid having a pier in the water (considering U.P.'s current debacle with two bridges being wiped out by flood water).  

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Re: Infrastructure
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« Reply #35 on: Sep 11th, 2010, 12:31pm »
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U.P.'s mile long approach to the MacArthur bridge in East St Louis. Brought to you from the ghetto.

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Re: Infrastructure
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« Reply #36 on: Oct 6th, 2010, 12:57am »
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On the Missouri side of the river, leading down to the Manufacturers Railway from the MacArthur bridge is this curious arrangement. 1st St at Choteau Av in St Louis. Most of the buildings in this area belonged to the Grunden Martin Manufacturing Co, I would assume this building was part of that conglomerate.

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Re: Infrastructure
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« Reply #37 on: Feb 28th, 2012, 9:18pm »
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The Eads bridge in St Louis

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« Reply #38 on: Feb 28th, 2012, 9:19pm »
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Stone archwork on the Missouri side of the bridge

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ehbowen
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Re: Infrastructure
 
« Reply #39 on: Feb 29th, 2012, 1:07pm »
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on Feb 28th, 2012, 9:19pm, Lfire83 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Stone archwork on the Missouri side of the bridge

 
Notice on the far right where an arch was removed and a concrete beam with steel lintel was substituted, presumably to give increased clearance for double stacks (that's a rail line through it).
 
 


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