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Model Railroading >> HO Scale >> Modeling the 1870's
(Message started by: Man with no Name on Jul 4th, 2008, 9:23am)

Title: Modeling the 1870's
Post by Man with no Name on Jul 4th, 2008, 9:23am
In the future I want to make an HO layout of an 1870's railroad mainline. I've been looking into HO scale 4-4-0s but I haven't found too much. Would anyone know where I could buy varying mainline 4-4-0's and rolling stock for future reference?

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jul 19th, 2008, 11:05pm
there isn't a whole lot available in either brass or plastic
in plastic/die cast there is the mantua/tyco General, (which is actually the General as rebuilt after the civil war and as it stands today)
the 3 variations of the V&T 4-4-0s (built 1872-1875) from IHC
and the bachmann Central Pacific Jupiter/ Union Pacific 119 which have been a profound disappointment to everyone who has bought them



in brass the list is slightly longer but the price tags are much higher and of course supply is a problem as most items are 30 or more years old

Akane imported a Pennsylvania class D-3 4-4-0 under the description "old timer." they lack rivet detail especially on the tender, but are really nice porportioned.  I just converted one to can in the cab motor with new gears, a flywheel and a lot of lead for weight.  there is the PFM V&T 4-4-0, several versions, some with cab motors.  PFM also imported Jupiter and 119 as did Balboa and more recently PSC. Samhongsa made a CStP&P "William Crooks" 4-4-0 for Gem which is beautiful to look at, but impossible to get it to run for s**t

a real problem is accurate rolling stock, you have to scratch everything
the mantua/tyco cars are inaccurate in many obvious ways.  the 36' cars marketed are really closer to 1890s and early 1900 construction practices, that includes the central valley and Labelle cars as well.  

I recently got some "custom" wood freight car kits which were prototypically accurate for the 1870s from a company called "Sandy River Car Shops" Although they usually do narrow gauge cars, they made me some special run HO kits.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by BNSFModelRRinTX on Sep 10th, 2008, 11:33am
Athearn/Roundhouse came out with DCC & Sound equipped 4-4-0 locomotives in HO Scale.  These locomotives were previewed and judged by Model Railroader a few months back and they were impressed.  They also came out with 2-6-0 Moguls with sound and DCC as well.  If you want sound and DCC, these are the locomotives for you.  

Old-time passenger cars are not hard to find, but finding 1870s themed freight cars will be difficult.  I have a friend in Pennsylania who does custom car building and painting.  If you are interested, I can give you his number.  Tell him Dennis referred you.

Regards,

Dennis

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Nov 24th, 2015, 8:19pm
A resurrection of a 7 year old thread. The subject is "Modeling the 1870's ".
* The first post was about the availability of ready made locomotives. I know that the author of the first post was asking about 4-4-0 types but he also said he was making a period layout. You cant have just one engine on a layout. I am expanding it to include all types of locomotives aviable that can be usefull, not counting the brass loco's any imported brass. They spoke of only the Bachmann 4-4-0, and Mantua General and it said that IHC sold 3 variations of V&T 4-4-0s . They missed the 2-4-0 and all three types were made for years by AHM. This was a July 2008 posting. In sept 2008 mentioned was a Athearn Roundhouse 4-4-0 and 2-6-0. They forgot the MDC 2-8-0. Forgotten also was the Early mantua 2-6-0 mogul, and 4-4-0 Bell of the Eighties. Mantua also made the small 0-4-0 camelback, and a little 0-4-0t Mighty Mite and a 0-6-0 Busy Bee that was a little larger. From MDC the Yardhog 0-6-0t that could easily to made to match this era. Model Power released the made in Brazil 0-8-0, 2-8-0, 4-6-0 all match this era. Tyco/mantua 4-8-0, 4-6-0-and 2-6-0 plastic boilered locos fit the description being of civil was era.They totally forgot Aristo Craft and there line of cast locos. CB&Q 0-4-0, 0-6-0t, 0-8-0, 2-8-0, 4-2-2, a few 4-6-0's, and the Rogers 2-6-0. Silvine has a cast metal 0-4-0t and life like made the same loco in plastic. I am proably missing a few also.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jan 31st, 2016, 6:12am
The 1870's had many standard type wood and coal burning locomotives. The standouts were designed by a man who started changing the locomotive world here in America, John Millholland. He made his ideas reality back in the 1840 working on valve gear. He constantly worked on devising a way to burn anthracite culm, the waste left over when in mountainous piles at every mine.
His first wide firebox culm burners had their cabs mounted astride, on top of, the firebox. These were the first locomotives nicknamed camelbacks . Then John went to work for the Philadelphia and Reading. He changer the shape of the cab to round, and the name Gunboat was used to describe these locomotives. I would guess that these smaller cabs were just to hot to be in and the square style of cab returned. These round and square cabbed locos were still called Gunboats during the civil war years. Many photos survive of these locomotives. here is one of the earliest.
A John Mullholland camelback.


Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jan 31st, 2016, 6:17am
A Mullholland Gunboat. Or a early camelback.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jan 31st, 2016, 6:20am
The John Mullholland Gunboat of the mid 1870's.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Feb 8th, 2016, 7:45am
v-162


When people think about locomotives the name associated with them is Baldwin.
Here is a Baldwin locomotive Catalog from 1872. Lots of company history here from the beginning of the company to the catalog date. A great period of steam locomotive conception and change.
frank

A link to the Google free E book;

https://books.google.com/books?id=G9VDAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Baldwin+locomotive+catalog&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0_4-3l-jKAhUCbj4KHSnlBLwQ6AEIJTAC#v=onepage&q=Baldwin%20locomotive%20catalog&f=false

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Mar 10th, 2016, 9:27am
A look at a Baldwin 4-4-0 from 1871. The locomotive Philadelphia.
frank


Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Mar 10th, 2016, 9:37am
This is a Baldwin 2-6-0 Mogul freight locomotive drawing from 1872 Railroad Gazette.

frank


Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jun 18th, 2016, 7:26pm
Well removing my last post and redoing it here. I'll go to early brass locos that I have. The first one I am not sure of. It is a 4-4-0 and may be in the wrong box. It is painted for Main Central and I keep it in an old United 4-4-0 V&T box.

Edit: This info from moocow: The model is a PRR class D3 imported by Akane.
*     * I have also seen a photo of this locomotive in an International Model products catalog on HOseekers.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Aug 25th, 2016, 8:51am
A second photo of MC 316 4-4-0 old timer.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by NEFAN on Sep 1st, 2016, 3:13pm
That is a fine example of an "American type" steam engine. I find the early 4-4-0 engines interesting due to their color schemes and ornate designs.
Please post some of the others that you have in your collection. I have seen them in some of your earlier posts of your engine service area.

I am working on an 1890's era mixed train with wooden boxcars and open platform coaches. I was able to find an IHC ERIE camelback loco at a fair price, but am also looking for a 4-4-0 if I can find one that fits the bill. Bachman has a modern 4-4-0 but it is pricey and I have avoided them due to past experience with poor quality. Part of the fun is in the chase.  :)
I'll post some photos shortly.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on May 28th, 2017, 7:23am
* NEFAN, In smaller 4-4-0's I have the one above by United PFM, and an early 4-6-0 call the Ostrich. It was sold by International Model Products. Both need to be rebuilt and I haven't touched either one yet. I have some Mantua Generals, 4-6-0's and 4-8-0's that fit the time period. Also, some AHM models, 4-4-0's and 2-4-0's made by either Pocher or Rivarossi. A sales company IHC also released these last models. My two favorites are early 4-4-0 camelbacks I made using 4-4-0 drives from these last mentioned locomotives. I altered the tenders but had to scratch built new bodies to fit the drives. One is a CRR of NJ model the other a Lehigh Valley one.
* Another company that made some early models of steam locomotives was New One of Japan. Sold here by Aristo Craft. 4-2-0. 0-4-0, 0-4-0t, 4-6-0's, 0-8-0 and 2-8-0. All were die cast models. Aristo Craft also released some early brass models of steam locomotives. The only one I have in my collection is the NYC 4-4-0 #999.
* I'll get some things together and start posting them here.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on May 29th, 2017, 7:37am
Here is an Aristo-Craft HO Brass model of the fasted steam locomotive in the World. It held its title for a long period of time. Once safety became an issue over speed, many locomotives were well capable of taking the title, their high speed runs just weren't published anymore until a British A4 class streamlined locomotive had one of its runs clocked in an official way.
My loco is the New York Central 4-4-0 #999 which broke the speed record long ago pulling the Empire State Express.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on May 31st, 2017, 7:14pm
** The Aristocraft Company made a locomotive type referred to as a Bicycle. It has a 4-2-2 wheel arrangement. The Philadelphia and Reading Railroad had some. Aristo-Craft modeled one that was the last loco of that single driver type built for the P&RR.

frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on May 31st, 2017, 7:25pm
Another oldie is again by Aristo-Craft. It is a Mogul type 2-6-0. One of the earliest made. This is the Thomas Rogers. The railroad who's name is on this one is again the P&RR.
frank

V-17


Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jun 1st, 2017, 7:29am
Here is a view of the service tracks with a Bachmann 4-4-0 Jupiter approaching the turntable. directly behind it to its right is an Aristo-Craft CB&Q 0-4-0 switcher. It is one of all die-cast metal construction.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 3rd, 2017, 2:57pm
model is a PRR class  D3 imported by Akane  I have 2 of them  one even runs
on 06/18/16 at 19:26:10, toptrain wrote:
Well removing my last post and redoing it here. I'll go to early brass locos that I have. First one I am not sure of. It is a 4-4-0 and may be in the wrong box. It is painted for Main Central and I keep it in a old United 4-4-0 V&T box.
frank


Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jun 3rd, 2017, 6:56pm

on 06/03/17 at 14:57:27, moocow wrote:


Hello, Steve b. Good to hear that you have a runner. Do you have photos of the pair? Thanks for the heads up on the 4-4-0. My motor turns and the pick up is clean I expect it to run once I clean it up and I repaint it.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jun 7th, 2017, 10:22pm
*** Here is my "Bell of the Eighties". A Mantua 4-4-0 of 1950's.
** I replaced the cab with a larger one. Also some Kemtron details. The tender is an Olympic brass model. The same tender came of their Reading 2-8-0. There is still more to do with this model before it is complete.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 8th, 2017, 3:36pm
this is the one that runs.  Not really well, but it runs.  Original motor, new drive coupling and i had to replace the pick ups

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 8th, 2017, 3:38pm
this one doesn't run, but it has the original box

i'm planning to make this a roundhouse queen, paint it up nice and park it outside the roundhouse doors

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 8th, 2017, 3:41pm
not 1870s but a 4-6-0 from 1905

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by NEFAN on Jun 8th, 2017, 8:34pm

on 06/07/17 at 22:22:54, toptrain wrote:
*** Here is my "Bell of the Eighties". A Mantua 4-4-0 of 1950's.
** I replaced the cab with a larger one. Also some Kemtron details. The tender is an Olympic brass model. The same tender came of their Reading 2-8-0. There is still more to do with this model before it is complete.
frank

I really like this one Frank. Good color choices and detail.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by NEFAN on Jun 8th, 2017, 8:37pm
moocow - thanks for posting the photos of the Arkane 4-4-0's. I find old steam engines very interesting and the older brass models are classics. - even if it is a roundhouse queen  ;)

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 9th, 2017, 3:22pm
i had one i put a can motor in the cab, but after conversion it didn't have enough weight on the drivers afterwards to pull more than 3 cars.  

i ended up trading it


Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 10th, 2017, 12:51pm
not your typical 1860s-70s locomotive the CP Huntington CP 3 later SP 1.  this loco was modeled twice.  this is the later Key imports version.  

and yes it really does run.  will pull three boxcars

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 10th, 2017, 12:54pm
building coal jennies

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 10th, 2017, 12:57pm
a shot on my not finished layout.
the General leads the way followed by two grain cars, a couple boxcars, some empty coal jennies and a radial roof coach on the tail end.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jun 11th, 2017, 12:01pm
Nice old style trains you've shown. Did you ever do any house cars with just 2 axels like the very first that were made?
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by moocow on Jun 11th, 2017, 3:49pm
yes, but they didn't weigh enough to stay on the track

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jun 14th, 2017, 6:14pm
**Here is one of my Aristocraft Cast locomotives made in Japan by New One. It is the small 2-6-0 Mogul Switcher of the Philadelphia and Reading.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jul 14th, 2017, 5:04pm
* Here is a locomotive I got today. A Mantua Mogul, old time 2-6-0 made in the 1950's.
frank

V-525-529

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jul 25th, 2017, 9:26am
AHM imported period passenger cars made by at first Pocha. The oldest style of these cars was the Monitor roof car. It was sold as the Lincoln Funeral Car. It was made for the president to travel with. It became his funeral car in which his remains toured the country. This roof line car was representative of the 1860's to 1870's. It was made only by Pocha of Italy. In HO scale this is the only car made for the ready to run Market. Wood car kit manufacturers did make period passenger cars of this roof type.

frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jul 26th, 2017, 8:27am
*  Now AHM not long after marketing the Monitor roofed 1960 passenger car had Poacher make for them an 1870 car with a restyled clearstory light and ventilation roof . A next step in passenger car construction. They made 3 different types of cars. A baggage car, combine car, and a coach car. Here on this site, All be from one set I have the Western and Atlantic Railroad. I need to use 3 posts to show all three.
* First post the baggage car.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jul 26th, 2017, 8:30am
Here is the second W&A car, the Combine Car. A passenger car with a baggage section added.

frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jul 26th, 2017, 8:31am
* The third car in this series is the W&A coach. This coach just like the other three cars in this series were all made from new and different molds. Ths first 1860 monitor roof car has 12 windows. This coach has 13 windows.

frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jul 29th, 2017, 4:14pm
* Here is the last roof made for those Pocha Rivarossi molds. They only made a combine and a coach in this version. Kansas City, St Louis, and Chicago Railroad.
frank
Ths combine.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jul 29th, 2017, 4:16pm
* Here is the coach version in the same road name.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Aug 2nd, 2017, 8:05am
** Here is an old plastic radial roof passenger that was sold as a kit.
* I have a 1957 AHC catalog and these passenger cars are there on two pages, 23 and 28. They were sold by a trail line named "Trail-Blazers". Made by a company named "Advanced Molding Corp". They made singularly and in sets all their cars. A 4-4-0 General, Passenger car, Mail car,  box car, gondola, and a unique 4 wheel caboose. I don't have all the cars. Missing baggage and Combine cars. Back in the day, long ago, box cars were called House cars. They also were built as 4 wheel, and 8 wheel cars.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Aug 2nd, 2017, 8:06am
** Here is the Mail Car. An old fashion combine. It also has a radial roof. 4 different cars were made. The coach and the mail car you see here. Then a Baggage and I think a combine completed the 4 cars.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Aug 16th, 2017, 5:33am
Mantua - Tyco Also produced radial roofed passenger cars. There were two types. Combine car and Passenger car. They were called 1860 cars.

This is the 1860 Combine. Central Pacific colors by Tyco.


Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Aug 16th, 2017, 5:37am
This is the Tyco radial roof, 1860 Passenger car in Central Pacific colors.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Sep 20th, 2017, 8:55am
Going back to the Advanced molding Co. cars. They were sold as Trail Blazers sets in kit form. This is the box my freight set came in.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Sep 22nd, 2017, 6:04am
This is my Tyco Central Pacific 1870 passenger train set, at the train platform for my old Frankford station. A CP 4-8-0 pulls a combine and coach of the radial Roof type.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Sep 22nd, 2017, 6:34am
* A great old locomotive to make is the B&O Hayes 10 wheeler. #198 is drawn here on page 361.

https://books.google.com/books?id=zP46AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA361#v=onepage&q=Winans%20Camel%20Engine%20&f=false

* Now long ago I made one using a Tyco 4-6-0 as a starting point. I replaced the drivers with Varney ones from an Old Lady 2-8-0. I re-drilled the third axel to make their spacing all equal. The body was built over a Tyco 4-6-0 boiler to make sure of a perfect fit. The tender is reworked with a fireman's platform and shelter added. I kept in my collection for over 10 years. It is gone now. Only some old photos remain.
Frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Sep 25th, 2017, 7:05am
Do you remember the TYCO old time sets? This is the "Petticoat Junction" set from the TV series.
The C&FW Railroad locomotive is named "Hootervile Cannonball".
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Sep 27th, 2017, 1:47pm
This TYCO set the BPS&D RR is from the TV series "Iron Horse".
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by Marty_Feldner on Sep 28th, 2017, 5:29am

on 09/27/17 at 13:47:10, toptrain wrote:
This TYCO set the BPS&D RR is from the Movie "Iron Horse".
frank


"Iron Horse" was a Dale Robertson TV series.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Sep 28th, 2017, 8:17am

on 09/28/17 at 05:29:35, Marty_Feldner wrote:
"Iron Horse" was a Dale Robertson TV series.


* But there also was a movie Iron Horse before the TV series. I think it was about the Central Pacific Railroad and the building of the First railroad to cross the continent. With Tyco making sets named after TV shows, you are probably right that they named it after the TV show.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Oct 3rd, 2017, 8:36am
Tyco also sold sets Like the B&O Royal Blue old time set. This is a photo I took today. It is out of focus.

frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Oct 3rd, 2017, 9:17am
Here is a better old photo of the passenger cars with an IHC B&O 4-4-0.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Oct 31st, 2017, 9:11am
Just to get something posted that isn't Tyco an American Train and Track Co. old-time passenger set. They used an all brass loco made in Japan and 3 Triang passenger cars. The larger size passenger cars are OO.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Nov 16th, 2017, 2:15pm
Well a new to my collection, a made in Japan locomotive 0-4-0t saddle-tanker most likely by New One, has picked up a Photographer's car and is bringing it to celebration at the Bergen Point's 22nd street station. Got to get there and go to the party.
Frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Nov 16th, 2017, 2:17pm
Well, It seems that this party is going to block the main line. The PGW's Staff railroad picture taker Snoopy the photographer is going to give a speech from the platform of his newly assigned to him Photographic car.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Dec 17th, 2017, 9:53am
*This is lower Snake Gultch station area where the Stevensville yard exit's on to the main-line here. On the exit track is a PRR H1 with its train. At the station, a CNJ 2-8-0 is pulling its train past the station.

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Jan 5th, 2018, 7:55pm
Looking back at Stevensville in the Late 1870's. I can see the forum Railfan Forum has gone a little nutsy, in stopping very small photos from being posted. I'll try again. This is try number 7. Boy does this upset me.
frank

Title: Re: Modeling the 1870's
Post by toptrain on Apr 12th, 2018, 6:48am
I may be using a little Artistic Licence in posting this in a 1870 thread. This is my CRR of NJ 2-8-0 #189 by Akane.



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