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Pushers on the D&H
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NEFAN
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Pushers on the D&H
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« on: Jul 21st, 2011, 8:54pm »
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When I was a teen I thought a train that required pushers was the ultimate RR experience. My other favorite RR the Erie Lackawanna, didn't use them where I lived in NJ. Luckly I spent time during the year with my grandparents in Carbondale Pa and got to witness what I called big time freight railroading with pushers.
 
The RS3u / RS36 team was pretty common in the 70"s.


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NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 21st, 2011, 8:57pm »
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Sometimes RS3u's in pairs.  


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DelawareHudson_RS3U_502_505_Carbondale_Pa_8_76_2_888x559.jpg
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NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 21st, 2011, 8:59pm »
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EMD's and a GE was a rare sight as pushers.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DH_Pushers_Carbondale_PA_82578_2.jpg
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NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #3 on: Jul 21st, 2011, 9:13pm »
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Question - what was the operating rules for pushers working over Ararat? Where did they "start and end".  


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Geoff
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #4 on: Jul 21st, 2011, 10:07pm »
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The grade started in the Carbondale yard, so pushers on northbound trains had to start their shove there. They would usually push up to Ararat where the apex of the grade was. The apex was under the steel road bridge in the cut just south of the Tower signals.  
 
If the pushers were needed for a southbound they would follow the train down to Lanesboro where the southbounds would wait just under Starrucca Viaduct and hook on to shove south. Otherwise they would uncouple and return to Carbondale.
 
Ararat was the apex, during Steam days the pushers might turn on the Wye track at Ararat. Northbounds during the days of steam usually required two engines pushing, a combination of Challengers/Mallets. But to get out of the yard with heavy trains a third "Kicker" engine was required as far as Forest City to start the trains. This was usually an E6a that was coupled behind the caboose. The two pushers that shoved to Ararat were coupled in front of the Caboose.  
 
A wye track was constructed at cascade creek outside of Lanesboro to turn pushers in the Challenger era.


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Sprung_Frog

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Re: Pushers on the D&H
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« Reply #5 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 12:37pm »
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A pair of Alco C628s pushers at Tunnel NY cutting off their train. 2-20-1975.
Charles


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DH_604_2-20-75.jpg
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infantry327
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #6 on: Jul 25th, 2011, 8:51am »
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I have worked with a few guys who were on the pushers over Ararat and over Belden and they told me a few different ways they used to push trains over the grades. The first way is of course "By the book" where the pushers are "cut in" to the train line so if the train goes into emergency the pushers will go as well, just imagine if the train dumped and the pushers kept shoving, when the train reached the top of the grade I think the rules dictated the train would stop and the pushers would cut-off. The second method was to just couple on and shove with out cutting in. In either case most of the time the pushers cut away on the fly, if the air was cut in they would close the angle cock on the caboose pull the pin, the pushers would throttle down and the pushers would "dump"as the train pulled away. I hope this helps with your question and if anyone on the forum  can add to or correct any mis-information that would be great. From a modeling standpoint the "by the book" procedure will take longer and extend your operating time.

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NKP759fan
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #7 on: Jul 27th, 2011, 10:49am »
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Great Pictures, especially the last black and white one with the Century units. Now if only somebody had pictures this clear of a Challenger uncoupling from a pusher assist!  . Thanks for sharing again Gentlemen

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 29th, 2011, 6:46pm »
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on Jul 21st, 2011, 10:07pm, Geoff wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The grade started in the Carbondale yard, so pushers on northbound trains had to start their shove there. They would usually push up to Ararat where the apex of the grade was. The apex was under the steel road bridge in the cut just south of the Tower signals.  
 
If the pushers were needed for a southbound they would follow the train down to Lanesboro where the southbounds would wait just under Starrucca Viaduct and hook on to shove south. Otherwise they would uncouple and return to Carbondale.
 
Ararat was the apex, during Steam days the pushers might turn on the Wye track at Ararat. Northbounds during the days of steam usually required two engines pushing, a combination of Challengers/Mallets. But to get out of the yard with heavy trains a third "Kicker" engine was required as far as Forest City to start the trains. This was usually an E6a that was coupled behind the caboose. The two pushers that shoved to Ararat were coupled in front of the Caboose.  
 
A wye track was constructed at cascade creek outside of Lanesboro to turn pushers in the Challenger era.

 
Excellent information - thanks. I never saw a pusher work out of Carbondale in the 1970's.  A few times I saw them in Mayfield waiting for a NB, but the returning s/b pushers ran light - possibly all the way to Hudson Yd.  
 
The pic is of 3 engines on the main in Mayfield PA. I couldn't stick around to see what was happening. I assumed that the two engines tied on to the front of the NB while the single engine tied on to the rear or visa versa. Pure speculation on my part.
Engines were also dropped off here to be picked up by northbounds. See "RS3U"in this forum.
 


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NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #9 on: Jul 29th, 2011, 6:48pm »
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on Jul 25th, 2011, 8:51am, infantry327 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I have worked with a few guys who were on the pushers over Ararat and over Belden and they told me a few different ways they used to push trains over the grades. The first way is of course "By the book" where the pushers are "cut in" to the train line so if the train goes into emergency the pushers will go as well, just imagine if the train dumped and the pushers kept shoving, when the train reached the top of the grade I think the rules dictated the train would stop and the pushers would cut-off. The second method was to just couple on and shove with out cutting in. In either case most of the time the pushers cut away on the fly, if the air was cut in they would close the angle cock on the caboose pull the pin, the pushers would throttle down and the pushers would "dump"as the train pulled away. I hope this helps with your question and if anyone on the forum  can add to or correct any mis-information that would be great. From a modeling standpoint the "by the book" procedure will take longer and extend your operating time.

 
thanks, I always assumed that they "did it by the book".


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TJ_1867
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #10 on: Jul 30th, 2011, 2:59pm »
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    Just about every train was pushed over Ararat during the 70's when I was working and there where two bid in pusher crews which I owned the flagman' s position for a little bit.  
     There where many different scenario's that the pushers where used but I'll give you one that was used almost nightly, we had a symbol freight, WR 1 which was marked out of Hudson at around 11PM, the pusher crew would take there power from the diesel track and head south to NC Cabin (South Main St. in Wilkes-Barre) and get behind the train that was brought from Harrisburg, this while the head end was making it's doubles and when finished would shove south to SH Cabin and on to the rest of the train at Mill St (South Hudson) then the whole train would shove south to clear Mill St. and make a brake test, when the brakes where released the pusher crew would radio the head end "we're leaning on you" and the train would head north with the pushers pushing hard to get the train over Yatesville, from there to Carbondale, the pushers would keep the slack bunched and then for the hard push up Ararat.  
     The train line was always cut in and when the top was reached, the flagman on the freight would close the train line via a valve handle which was just outside of the caboose door, then on the caboose platform there was a chain connected to the caboose cut leaver, he pulled that chain, motioned to the pusher engineer which backed off on the throttle and cut of on the fly".
     The pushers would most likely drift down behind the train to KY Cabin (about 6 miles south of Windsor NY) and wait to push a southbound train.
     That valve I talked about was on the original D&H wide vision cabooses.  
     Again many different ways the pushers were used' but this was how it was usually done out of Hudson Yard. Hope this helped a little bit.
         
                TJ


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NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #11 on: Aug 6th, 2011, 2:20pm »
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Thanks TJ for sharing your experiences on the hill. I had seen pushers running light s/b near Scranton  in the 70's, so I always assumed they worked mainly out of Hudson yd.

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NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 6th, 2011, 2:27pm »
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on Jul 22nd, 2011, 12:37pm, Sprung_Frog wrote:       (Click here for original message)
A pair of Alco C628s pushers at Tunnel NY cutting off their train. 2-20-1975.
Charles

Great photo  - which brings up the same question for Belden hill.  
 
What were the operating rules for pushers? Where did they "start and end".  
 
I never got a chance to witness this operation until after Guilford took over.  
 
Here are pushers n/b near Bevier St. Binghamton NY.


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infantry327
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #13 on: Aug 7th, 2011, 9:06am »
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The pushers out of Binghamton worked out of Bevier street yard and then out of East Binghamton yard later on. The pushers would tie on in Binghamton and shove up to Tunnel, NY which is the summit of Belden hill. The pushers would then drift back down to Binghamton to help another northbound or follow the train train they pushed to Afton, NY to to shove on a southbound. Hope this helps.

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NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #14 on: Aug 8th, 2011, 8:24pm »
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Great. Thanks for the information.

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Geoff
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #15 on: Aug 23rd, 2011, 7:39am »
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Back in the early 80's when I was actively railfanning the D & H I spent many hours in and around Oneonta. It was still an active yard and shop and I photographed many pushers in the yard.  
 
The pusher sets, often a pair of U33c's, were usually found sitting near the fuel tracks waiting for a train to push. They would follow the train out of the yard and couple to the rear at Afton for the shove over Belden Hill. I assumed at the time they were assigned out of Oneonta.  
 
Pushers were also added to Northbound trains in Oneonta.  
 
Oneonta at the time was used for car repair and painting. The yard was full of cars needing work.  
 
I believe this changed when Oneonta was shut down after the takeover by that vile organisation that shall not be mentioned here.


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NEFAN
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #16 on: Aug 23rd, 2011, 6:38pm »
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Thanks for the info Geoff. I was in Oneonta last year  Very sad what has become of it.  
 
The U33C's made excellent noise and smoke when pushing.


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toptrain
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #17 on: Jul 20th, 2012, 8:14pm »
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0-8-8-0 pushers on the D&H.
 
D&H 0-8-8-0, #1608.
 
RAG 1911 V51 page291.
 
Article: Mallet Superheated Locomotives, Delaware and Hudson.  
photo and specks.
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=cLUlAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:A6nblXQt3WoC&source=bl&ots=L3RDr4qNoN&sig=stZpcBrWNN6KFFtvxxWbh03lWeg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AsIBUNDGAqjG6wH-tc3zBg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Mallet%20Superheater%20Locomotives%2C%20Delaware%20and%20Hudson&f=false


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toptrain
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #18 on: Jul 20th, 2012, 8:30pm »
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D&H 0-8-8-0 #1600.
 
Railway master mechanic 1910 V34 Page 348-352.
 
Article is : " Articulated Locomotives for the Delaware and Hudson Co.
 
This is a complete article describing this new locomotive for the D&H. It is a 5 page article with a great Elevation drawing.
l
ink ; click on link then page 348 link. enjoy
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=OjcOAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:_7c3UCdHJKwC&source=bl&ots=u6QLchDiXV&sig=drqgUX4PMaKRV-E855nyBXXdRlg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZPcJUPGhJofY6wH0nv3_CQ&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22%20Articulated%20Locomotives%20for%20the%20Delaware%20and%20Hudson%20Co&f=false


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toptrain
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Re: Pushers on the D&H
 
« Reply #19 on: Aug 22nd, 2012, 11:39pm »
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* I found a second article on the D&H 0-8-8-0's. This one has a photo of # 1608.
 
D&H 0-8-8-0, #1608.
RAG 1911 V51 page291.
Article: Mallet Superheated Locomotives, Delaware and Hudson. photo and specks.
http://books.google.com/books?id=cLUlAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:A6nblXQt3WoC&source=bl&ots=L3RDr4qNoN&sig=stZpcBrWNN6KFFtvxxWbh03lWeg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AsIBUNDGAqjG6wH-tc3zBg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Mallet%20Superheater%20Locomotives%2C%20Delaware%20and%20Hudson&f=false
 
toptrain1


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toptrain
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