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Steamers of the D&H
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   Author  Topic: Steamers of the D&H  (Read 647 times)
Man with no Name
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Steamers of the D&H
 
« on: Mar 30th, 2011, 10:20pm »
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From viewing several photographs of the D&H in its heyday, I find myself finding more and more interest in the steam engines on the road. What strikes me most are their unique aesthetics which combine American muscle and European grace. Most of the steamers have flanged smoke stacks, elephant ears, and completely flattened smokebox faces (all European characteristics), which make them stand out from other locomotives in the country.
 
Yet there is little, if any coverage of the D&H steam days on the web. I want to learn more about the line and, more specifically, its motive power. Could anyone make any recommendations? Also, why does there seem to be very few photographs and films of the D&H steam roster?


« Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2011, 10:21pm by Man with no Name » Logged

NEFAN
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
  DelawareHudson_Co_Bulletin_30130_549x753.jpg - 58842 Bytes
« Reply #1 on: Mar 31st, 2011, 1:13pm »
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Your best place to start is to pick up a copy of "Delaware and Hudson" by Jim Shaughnessy. He goes into detail on the D&H's innovative steam program that was influenced by the great L.F. Loree. These days there doesn't seem as much interest in D&H steam power. It is a great story though.
 
Here is one of my favorites. It has the "european" look. This issue of the D&H Bulletin has a good article on their latest creations in 1930. I am also a big fan of the Challengers.  
 
Anyone else have a favorite?


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DelawareHudson_Co_Bulletin_30130_549x753.jpg
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x600
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #2 on: Apr 1st, 2011, 8:33pm »
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I have to agree that Jim Shaughnessy's book is the best all around reference on the D&H and it's history. From the Canal to the Gravity, to the Blue and Grey Lightning stripes, Jim covers the entire history to the late 70s.
To just drool over great looking D&H steam action shots,
Delaware & Hudson Steam In Color, by Chuck Yungkurth-Morning Sun Books is my favorite. Lots of great color photos.There are also Vol 1 and Vol 2 of the Delaware and Hudson In Color by Morning Son.
It might be hard to find them, but checking some online used booksellers might get you some results.
Mark I videos put out a video entitled  
Memories of the Delaware & Hudson, Volume 1 Steam and Diesel Power.
I have the Tape, don't know if it's still available or on DVD.
There certainly is more available on some of the bigger more popular roads, but there is lots of stuff in print for the D&H.
I'm not sure of the stuff available on the web, but fallen flags.org should be a great place to start.
Oh and there is a virtual museum of D&H, let me find the site address.....
OK here it is; http://www.trainweb.org/dhvm/
This should keep you busy for a while  
 
I'm sure there are a few other places I haven't seen yet
And if you just want to chat about the D&H, this is a good place
 
Greg O.


« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2011, 8:39pm by x600 » Logged

Geoff
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #3 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 3:59pm »
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Oh Boy! Where do I start.  
 
Try this site, it will keep you occupied for a while.
 
http://www.nyysa.com/archive/code/doSearch.php?a=1&e=1&al=Delaware+%26+Hudson+Railroad&x=10&ao=0
 
Then hang out here:
 
http://mattforsyth.com/
 
Not much on steam yet but big things are coming. Especially since he has my copy of Carl Munck's steam locomotive tome (That I probably will never see again) and has the original work done by Himrod of drawings of D & H steam. Plus other good stuff.
 
If you can get Yahoo groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheDandHintheSteamEra/
 
A special group just for us steam nuts
 
Then if you are aware of the online Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine they have a forum, and this gentleman does an incredible job of scratchbashing D & H Steam!
 
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/2641
 
Whew! That was almost like work
 
Should keep you occupied for a while


« Last Edit: Apr 2nd, 2011, 4:14pm by Geoff » Logged
x600
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #4 on: Apr 4th, 2011, 2:44am »
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WoW Geoff, that's some new stuff and will keep me busy for a while.
The other Greg's D&H steam model are un-@#$%% believable  !
Thanks
 
Greg O.


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Geoff
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #5 on: Apr 4th, 2011, 7:43pm »
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The Mark 1 Video tape is still available from them.
 
http://www.mark1video.com/
 
Get the last tape listed on the D & H page, it has all the D & H footage included.
 
Another tape was done by the defunct J M J Productions. It was titled Vintage Rails Vol 1. It was convered to DVD but the folks who sold it are out of business
 
I have searched high and low but cannot find the DVD. I have the VHS tape but my VHS player started eating taped and they are not made anymore
 
Both tapes have great film of D & H steam.


« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2011, 7:51pm by Geoff » Logged
Ashley_John
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #6 on: Apr 5th, 2011, 12:16am »
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on Apr 4th, 2011, 7:43pm, Geoff wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Another tape was done by the defunct J M J Productions. It was titled Vintage Rails Vol 1. It was convered to DVD but the folks who sold it are out of business
 
I have searched high and low but cannot find the DVD. I have the VHS tape but my VHS player started eating taped and they are not made anymore
 
Both tapes have great film of D & H steam.

 
I've tried to contact the guy who owned JMJ several times to acquire other titles he produced - never any luck. I'd say it's a good bet he is no longer in the business.
 
Fortunately, I do have a copy of Vintage Rails Volume 1 on DVD covering the D&H and the Reading in the days of steam. It has some really great footage. Too bad the guy closed up shop.
 
John


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Man with no Name
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #7 on: Apr 5th, 2011, 12:26am »
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Thanks for the provided links. I really kick myself for not buying the Jim Shaughnessy book when I saw it at Strasburg's shop. Next visit there in the summer will have me searching for the book. The photos on the NYYSA archival webpage had me drooling with certain engines really standing out to me:
 
 
http://www.nyysa.com/archive/images/1/0/351-0.jpg
(to think this is an AMERICAN locomotive )
 
http://www.nyysa.com/archive/images/1/0/290-0.jpg
 
http://www.nyysa.com/archive/images/1/0/313-0.jpg
 
 
 
Also, here's a bigger question that I feel I already know the answer: Is there any surviving D&H steam locos around in the country?


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Ashley_John
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #8 on: Apr 5th, 2011, 9:00am »
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on Apr 5th, 2011, 12:26am, Man with no Name wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Also, here's a bigger question that I feel I already know the answer: Is there any surviving D&H steam locos around in the country?  

 
None survive. All were scrapped.
 
John


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Geoff
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #9 on: Apr 5th, 2011, 11:49am »
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on Apr 5th, 2011, 12:16am, Ashley_John wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I've tried to contact the guy who owned JMJ several times to acquire other titles he produced - never any luck. I'd say it's a good bet he is no longer in the business.
 
Fortunately, I do have a copy of Vintage Rails Volume 1 on DVD covering the D&H and the Reading in the days of steam. It has some really great footage. Too bad the guy closed up shop.
 
John

 
J M J did the tape on VHS and later as a DVD. THey went out of business and the DVD was being sold by Tony Resnak. The BLHS site had it listed but he is nowhere to be found
A firm known as Gandydancer in the midwest had the old JMJ tapes for sale but they have also gone missing. Website gone, phones disconnected?
 
That tape must be jinxed. I would dearly love to find the DVD but have looked high and low, no dealer has it.  
 
Tony Resnak also produced a small booklet titled "Steamers of the D & H" but it is long out of print. I found one two years ago on Amazon that cost me $60. It was signed by Resnak himself, wish I could locate the dude! It had photos from the Vollrath collection. He also did a VHS tape of photos from the Vollrath collection showing ALL of Vollrath's D & H photos of steam. A VHS tape that runs well over an hour of nothing but still photos of engines set to the usual corny music. Every time I watch it I doze off!
 
I am sure that if the masters from the JMJ tapes are still around they would sell.  


« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2011, 11:51am by Geoff » Logged
Geoff
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #10 on: Apr 5th, 2011, 11:55am »
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on Apr 5th, 2011, 12:26am, Man with no Name wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Thanks for the provided links. I really kick myself for not buying the Jim Shaughnessy book when I saw it at Strasburg's shop. Next visit there in the summer will have me searching for the book. The photos on the NYYSA archival webpage had me drooling with certain engines really standing out to me:
 
 
http://www.nyysa.com/archive/images/1/0/351-0.jpg
(to think this is an AMERICAN locomotive )
 
http://www.nyysa.com/archive/images/1/0/290-0.jpg
 
http://www.nyysa.com/archive/images/1/0/313-0.jpg
 
 
 
Also, here's a bigger question that I feel I already know the answer: Is there any surviving D&H steam locos around in the country?  

 
Just imagine that the 442 started out as a Mother Hubbard!
 
The only surviving remnant of D & H steam is a tender from one of the 300's. It is now used as an auxiliary water tender for the CP rail Royal Hudson.  


« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2011, 11:57am by Geoff » Logged
Geoff
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #11 on: May 10th, 2011, 6:33pm »
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OK, apparently JMJ Productions is still in business. Thanks to Matt Forsyth who found the guy! His E mail is:
 
<moejmj@bellsouth.net>
 
Send him an E mail and ask for "Vintage Rails Vol 1 The D & H"  
 
I should be getting my DVD shortly and will keep you folks posted.  
 
I did not ask about other DVD's he may have available.  
 
Here is a Youtube sampler of the DVD
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJQ8GeQBRc0


« Last Edit: May 10th, 2011, 6:36pm by Geoff » Logged
infantry327
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #12 on: May 11th, 2011, 7:30am »
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Another source of D&H steam info is a soft cover book called "Delaware & Hudson, Challengers and Northerns", by Ed Crist. It was published by Carstens in 1988 but it can be found on the web and at shows.

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Geoff
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #13 on: May 11th, 2011, 9:11am »
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Many years ago TRAINS Magazine had a multi issue article on the 2 8 0's of the D & H titled "Consolidations Inc". It was a thorough investigation of the 2 8 0 on the D & H. The issues are hard to find but the BLHS reprinted the entire series of articles in last Summer's "White Flags" issue.  
 
A great and very thorough look at the D & H and it's 2 8 0's.


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Geoff
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #14 on: Jun 21st, 2011, 12:06pm »
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OK as promised above here is my review of the JMJ DVD 'Vintage Rails Vol1"
 
First I would like to say thanks to Morry Farcus for making this available on DVD again, AND also for sending me a second copy that he remastered to improve the program! Classy act on his part.
 
He also has several other DVD's including a two volume DVD "Delaware and Hudson '89 pts 1 and 2 and "Guilford Diesels on the D & H" all for the price of $29.95 each.  
 
Now about the DVD: The first segment covers the Steam era, mostly from a 16mm film made in 1947 but with added footage from the J J Young collection. It covers the entire line starting in Scranton with charming (How else to describe a 4-6-0 with wooden coaches) view of the miner's local from Scranton to Carbondale. The DVD has been enhanced to make the footage cleaner, sharper and lighter than the original VHS tapes. The little 4-6-0 #500 prominent in this segment is a favorite of mine and this alone was worth the DVD. 
 
The journey then goes through Carbondale to Ararat and then under Starrucca Viaduct. Plenty of great footage of the big J's and the H Class Mallets. I can watch this segment over and over.The DVD actually is a gold mine of scenes along the Jefferson that I intend to attempt to model someday.  
 
There are some scenes in Oneonta yard that give the impression that the yard was the center of D & H operations. Some footage of the Quaint Cherry Valley Branch, the North Creek branch and the line to Lake George. A view of an early RS2 powered train leaving Plattsburgh Station and footage along the Red Rocks.  
 
The video then has extensive footage of Diesel Operations, including the PA's and 628's. The last part covers the Reading RR.  
 
 "Bonus Footage"  in B &W tacked on the end has some additional D & H steam action including a short segment of one of the Muhlfield experimental steam engines ( I believe it is the John B Jervis but could be wrong) under steam.
 
More to follow-----


« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2011, 12:44pm by Geoff » Logged
Geoff
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #15 on: Jun 21st, 2011, 12:34pm »
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Review Part 2:
 
For those interested in D & H Steam this DVD is a must have. Watching the Big J's in action is a revelation . Several times I observed the front drivers spinning during acceleration and negotiating crossovers and this had been mentioned elsewhere as a quirk of the engines. Running one of those Behemoths must have taken skill and experience. Running one over the Jefferson took special men. Just look at the color of the upgrade tracks as opposed to the downgrade. Lots of sand and the ability to "feel" the engine were required in the day.  
 
Warning, watching this DVD may get you hooked on Steam
 
The Cherry Valley Segment features ten Wheeler #556. This engine was rebuilt (From a Mother Hubbard) to be President Loree's private engine during his reign. Kept near the Albany offices coupled to his private car ready to carry him over the line as necessary. Notice the Russian Iron boiler, outside bearing leading trucks (Only engine with them IIRC) and the European styling. The cab side panels covered the piping but only on the engineer's side so Loree would see it when he boarded.  Apparently the shops never did the fireman's side, why we will never know. The engine was apparently demoted to the regular engine pool when Loree retired. Still a handsome engine even resigned to a backward branch.
 
One segment taken at Tunnel shows an operator hooping up orders to an H class Mallet pushing backwards! Standing in front of the camera is a young lad obviously enjoying the action. As this film was shot in 1947 I wonder if a certain poster here might know the young gentleman?
 
This is a quality DVD given the material it was made from.  
 
You can order it from the E Mail address posted above and get a discount too. Or send your order to:
 
JMJ Productions
1621 N. 74th Terrace
Hollywood FL 33024
 
I have no interest in JMJ Productions other than enjoying their DVD's.


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NKP759fan
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #16 on: Jun 21st, 2011, 12:39pm »
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Thank you for sharing!! I may be ordering a copy shortly!

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
toptrain
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #17 on: Jul 13th, 2012, 8:37pm »
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D&H Steamers.
 A excellent topic.
* What I will post here is a link to a Article on a D&H Camelback. 4-6-0c #502 and its class.
* It is from a google E-book, American Engineer and Railroad Journal 1903. * It isn't information from a historic point of view.  
*It is live info as it was published in 1903. the Article starts on page 285, is 2 pages to 286.  
* It is about a new engine being released to service on the D&H.
** I hope you enjoy it.
 toptrain
 
D&H 4-6-0c # 502.
 
AE&RJ 1903 page 285. Photo drawing article and specks.
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=9fE6AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:02tlec0iYYIC&source=bl&ots=tmpXpP_EE3&sig=npkfluTymWZII1wQQ9UVY41xC28&hl=en&sa=X&ei=S60AUIm6FMTq6wGB4Pj6Bg&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=Culm%20burning%20passenger%20locomotives&f=false


« Last Edit: Jul 13th, 2012, 8:49pm by toptrain » Logged

toptrain
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #18 on: Aug 22nd, 2012, 11:47pm »
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* D&H 2-8-0c #1011
 
* AE&RJ 1907, page 22.
 
*Article with full set of drawings and photo.  
 
*Article title is " Heavy Consolidation Freight Locomotive with Walschaert Valve Gear."  
 
* http://books.google.com/books?id=_PI6AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:02tlec0iYYIC&source=bl&ots=QIq-t9jT6r&sig=Uaqkm6bO5fYYXpBE4qRMr8MKRko&hl=en&sa=X&ei=27QAUI7qIKbU6wG536D1Bg&ved=0CFwQ6AEwCDgU#v=onepage&q=Heavy%20consolidation%20freight%20locomotive&f=false


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toptrain
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Re: Steamers of the D&H
 
« Reply #19 on: Aug 24th, 2012, 11:37pm »
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Thank you for sharing Toptrain! It never ceases to amaze me how things were built and analyzed in an age far before computers.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
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