Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Nov 22nd, 2017, 11:13pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


D&H in Carbondale Pa
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Fallen Flags
   Delaware & Hudson
(Moderators: Matthew_L, x600, NKP759fan)
   D&H in Carbondale Pa
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: D&H in Carbondale Pa  (Read 4585 times)
TJ_1867
Chaser
Posts: 86
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #20 on: Oct 30th, 2010, 5:41pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

In the black and white photo there are two switches the northern switch is a power switch which is the start of northbound crossover movement the second switch is a hand throw switch and that track went under that bridge to a private loading dock for Fleetwood Enterprieses and was taken out of service Aug. 9, 1976 (i had to look up the date). As far as a runaway track on the mains there was no such thing. In the color photo it is a perfect shot of how DF Cabin was laid out. You can see the switching lead and some rails that are a stub, this was the derail for the yard tracks. DF Cabin was controlled by the Hudson operator, DF Cabin was his northern most territory, the next northern interlocking was WC Cabin which was controlled by the train dispatcher in Albany which then moved to Colonie. Hudson was only an operator not a dispatcher don't know why this is but that's the way it was. As far as runaways a string of hopper cars got away from a yard crew in Carbondale late 40's maybe early 50's, the conductor was permanently demoted to trainman for the rest of his career, i worked with him in Green Ridge until his retirement, I was told that string of cars made it all the way to Avoca. The only runaway on the mains was a single engine pusher which died after pushing a northbound on top of the hill, it made it as far south as bridge 10 before it derailed ans landed on its side with major damage, it was one of the 700's can't remember the number. also 3 cars of plastics ran out of Carbondale and derailed in Dickson City but the line was no longer being used as a main.

Logged
TJ_1867
Chaser
Posts: 86
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #21 on: Oct 30th, 2010, 5:45pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

NEFAN keep those pictures coming with them you are shaking the cobwebs out of my brain

Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
  DH_sb_Carbondale_PA_80580_2.jpg - 51550 Bytes
« Reply #22 on: Nov 2nd, 2010, 8:44pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Oct 30th, 2010, 5:41pm, TJ_1867 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
In the black and white photo there are two switches the northern switch is a power switch which is the start of northbound crossover movement the second switch is a hand throw switch and that track went under that bridge to a private loading dock for Fleetwood Enterprieses and was taken out of service Aug. 9, 1976 (i had to look up the date). As far as a runaway track on the mains there was no such thing. In the color photo it is a perfect shot of how DF Cabin was laid out. You can see the switching lead and some rails that are a stub, this was the derail for the yard tracks. DF Cabin was controlled by the Hudson operator, DF Cabin was his northern most territory, the next northern interlocking was WC Cabin which was controlled by the train dispatcher in Albany which then moved to Colonie. Hudson was only an operator not a dispatcher don't know why this is but that's the way it was. As far as runaways a string of hopper cars got away from a yard crew in Carbondale late 40's maybe early 50's, the conductor was permanently demoted to trainman for the rest of his career, i worked with him in Green Ridge until his retirement, I was told that string of cars made it all the way to Avoca. The only runaway on the mains was a single engine pusher which died after pushing a northbound on top of the hill, it made it as far south as bridge 10 before it derailed ans landed on its side with major damage, it was one of the 700's can't remember the number. also 3 cars of plastics ran out of Carbondale and derailed in Dickson City but the line was no longer being used as a main.

 
TJ_1867 - Thanks for the great info. I figured that there must have been runaways on the D&H - very interesting stuff. I am still a bit confused about the track layout. Fleetwood if I remember, was the industry in the tan building up on the O&W row. I do not remember that track under the viaduct ever being in place in 1976.  The track that I am wondering about came off of the South bound main under the viaduct right where the dispatcher phone box and signal were located. (I have this phone in my collection,  after the D&H left) Is this the Fleetwood loading dock track? I never saw it used and it was rusty in 1976.  
 
In this pic the dispatcher phone and the switch are behind the lead engine. The building next to the Church was the Viaduct cafe. Not sure how you could enjoy your beer with all of the vehicle noises from the viaduct!


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DH_sb_Carbondale_PA_80580_2.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
  DF_Cabin_Carbondale_508x866.jpg - 24650 Bytes
« Reply #23 on: Nov 13th, 2010, 6:59pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I found some additional pictures of DF Cabin and have come up with the following layout that I remember from the mid 70's. My interest is still in that siding that heads upgrade toward the O&W. It is still there today in the woods that have grown in there. As a kid I assumed it was some sort of runaway track, but that appears not to be the case as TJ_1867 mentions. It may have been built to service the new industrial park on the hill, but I never saw it used. It would be a tough climb for an engine any way you look at it.
 
Here is the layout of DF. Sorry, it's low tech, but you can see the track leaving the main under the viaduct.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DF_Cabin_Carbondale_508x866.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
  DH_RS11_5004_on_P2_Carbondale_PA_82377_2.jpg - 42507 Bytes
« Reply #24 on: Nov 13th, 2010, 7:12pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Here is a shot of P2 entering the yard lead. You can see the siding behind it heading up the hill toward the tan building up on the O&W row. The corner of the D&H Freight house is visible on the left.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DH_RS11_5004_on_P2_Carbondale_PA_82377_2.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
  DH_NE87_Carbondale_PA_82377_3.jpg - 34816 Bytes
« Reply #25 on: Nov 13th, 2010, 7:24pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Looking the other way off of the Dundaff St Viaduct, you can see the layout of the Carbondale yard in the mid 70's. NE87 is southbound. It was called the "paper train" due to the large amount of newprint carried. Notice the CN boxcars. To the right you can also see the Y track lead. I rode around this a few times with the crews.
 
If you look in the lower left corner, you can see the switch for the "mystery siding" that I am wondering about.
 
This area has changed quite a bit since then!


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DH_NE87_Carbondale_PA_82377_3.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Matthew_L
Moderator
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 7885
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #26 on: Nov 14th, 2010, 6:55pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 13th, 2010, 7:24pm, NEFAN wrote:       (Click here for original message)
This area has changed quite a bit since then!

 
Very true... but I'm thankful a shortline is taking advantage of the remaining tracks.  


Logged

Best wishes to all,
Matthew L

moderator- D&H, Erie Lackawanna/Erie and LA&L/B&H/WNYP

P.S. All aboard for the last train to Hammondsport!
Geoff
Railfan
Posts: 130
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #27 on: Nov 15th, 2010, 4:14pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

OK, regarding the "Mystery" siding. I may have found one explanation.
 
If you go to http://www.jon-n-bevliles.net/RAILROAD/Sanborn/sanborn-pennsylvania.html
 
and look up the Carbondale maps. You will find after searching the sanborn fire maps dated 1912 that the siding went to a business called Clover Leaf Mfg co. Apparently they built stuff out of wood  (Furniture?) from the descriptions of the structures around the siding. The siding on the map appears to be in the correct location although the streets and buildings have changed over the years. And Dundaff St is not an overpass in 1912.  
 
The fire maps are a chore to look through but pay attention to the grid numbers in the upper right corners. The map in question is in grid 14.


« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2010, 4:23pm by Geoff » Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #28 on: Nov 20th, 2010, 9:16am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 15th, 2010, 4:14pm, Geoff wrote:       (Click here for original message)
OK, regarding the "Mystery" siding. I may have found one explanation.
 
If you go to http://www.jon-n-bevliles.net/RAILROAD/Sanborn/sanborn-pennsylvania.html
 
and look up the Carbondale maps. You will find after searching the sanborn fire maps dated 1912 that the siding went to a business called Clover Leaf Mfg co. Apparently they built stuff out of wood  (Furniture?) from the descriptions of the structures around the siding. The siding on the map appears to be in the correct location although the streets and buildings have changed over the years. And Dundaff St is not an overpass in 1912.  
 
The fire maps are a chore to look through but pay attention to the grid numbers in the upper right corners. The map in question is in grid 14.

 
Excellent maps, thanks. That may be the original configuration of that siding. I never knew about Clover Leaf mfg. The Dudaff St viaduct probably changed that area quite a bit when it was built. I always thought the tavern building  that was next to the Church was cool, since the entrance was on the upper floor from the viaduct.  In later years I remember contruction equipment being stored in that area.


Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #29 on: Nov 21st, 2010, 9:23am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Great Link! Those maps can come in handy!
 
Mike


Logged
TJ_1867
Chaser
Posts: 86
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #30 on: Nov 23rd, 2010, 11:22pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

 Concerning the mystery siding it is not a mystery any more, first if i paid attention to detail this would have been solved earlier. If you look at the picture in post 16 the hand throw switch just south of the power switch went south under the O&W and this branched off to form two running tracks which also served a company called Carbondale Contracting Co. The notes show that on April 10, 1962 the above running tracks where reconfigured into an industrial lead for the above shipper. Now to the mystery switch this is the track that went to Fleetwood Enterprises dock. The map shows the curve of the lead as if left the main. Also there was another industry off of this lead just south of the viaduct, it was Harry Letzig & Co which was gone by the time i hired out, this industry would be next to the big green building in post 22. According to the notes this lead was built on Aug. 9, 1976 but i never saw it used. So i must apologize for the wrong info. NEFAN If that was NE-87 in your picture That was not what we called the paper train that was RW-6, the paper cars on NE-87 would have been set off at Green Ridge for local industries, but that would take the discussion away from the Carbondale thread.    
                  TJ


Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #31 on: Nov 24th, 2010, 3:10pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

TJ - no problem, thanks for the information! I have spent a lot more time on this than I ever imagined.   DF has changed quite a bit over the years which is what has made it interesting  to me. I made it a point to look around last month when I was in the area.  I have learned a lot about DF from you and others which is great.
So Fleetwood up on the O&W row was the reason for the siding. I never saw it used either. I would have loved to see an RS unit pushing cars up that grade. Major Alco smoke no doubt.  
I wonder if Harry Letzig & Co used the same building and siding that once belonged to Clover Leaf Mfg co that Geoff mentioned in the earlier post?  
TJ - was the siding that went past the Freight house, Hendrick Mfg and to the meat company before the O&W viaduct, still active when you hired out?
I usually got my train information from either the employees at the Diesel shop, or the crews themselves. For what's it's worth, I am reasonably sure that is NE-87. As a teenager I may have mixed the name up - way too long ago to remember. Thanks for keeping me honest.


Logged
Frank_D
Historian
Posts: 455
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #32 on: Nov 24th, 2010, 6:33pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Geoff - Thanks for that map link, it will come in handy on some of those outings.
Frank


Logged
TJ_1867
Chaser
Posts: 86
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
  jpg1037_866x628.jpg - 96827 Bytes
« Reply #33 on: Nov 26th, 2010, 9:56pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

You can see where this siding ended at Fleetwood Industries
 
     TJ


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/jpg1037_866x628.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
TJ_1867
Chaser
Posts: 86
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #34 on: Nov 26th, 2010, 10:19pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

 NEFAN, your question about the freight house and such, the only thing i remember on the south end was that derail that was part of the interlocking. So if the tracks where there they where weed covered and out of service.
   It's funny you mentioned the phone that was on the south bound signal, we used it when making set-offs in the yard because the only people who had portable radios where the regular bid in conductors, and when i hired out there was so much work that a lot of times it was an all extra crew so no portables. The way we would make our set offs was the headman would drop off and would go to the block line phone, call the Hudson operator and when the cut to be made was getting close you would tell the operator to relay to the head-end when to stop, then you would make the cut (and hope you had the slack) pull the pin go back to the phone and tell the operator to tell the engineer it was OK to pull south, then when you cleared the north bound signal you would have to reach down and open the angle cock and dump the air, then when you got the signal to shove north you would close the angle cock and give the air back and you would shove the set-off back into the yard.  
   This is the way we set off at Jermyn Transfer also.
   Again as far as that train in the picture being NE-87 all of those paper cars would have been set-off at Green Ridge, there was a lot of industry getting the big rolls of paper between Carbondale and Wilks-Barre.
 
          TJ


Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #35 on: Nov 27th, 2010, 10:16am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

TJ- Thanks for the map & information on DF. Great story - I am always amazed at the skills that the crews had and how they were able to make the best with what was available.  
You also answered another question I had about somethng I have seen in old pictures of Carbondale.  Just south of the O&W was a large structure that straddled the D&H. It was gone before I arrived on the scene in the 70's. Your map shows it as a "coal crusher" (whatever that was). I'm not sure why this would be located there so close to downtown.  
Thanks again.


Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #36 on: Nov 27th, 2010, 12:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Going through more pics, I remembered that some tracks in Carbondale yard had metal ties. Anyone know why this was?

Logged
Geoff
Railfan
Posts: 130
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #37 on: Nov 30th, 2010, 2:23pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Re the metal ties. There was a discussion in the BLHS Bulletin about these ties a few months ago. They were made from old rail and apparently were the result of an experiment to re use scrap rail.  
 


Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
 
« Reply #38 on: Nov 30th, 2010, 6:53pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Thanks Geoff. I imagine that it wasn't just a D&H thing, other RR's tried it too?

Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1492
Re: D&H in Carbondale Pa
  DH_CX1_Carbondale_PA_82677_3.jpg - 39164 Bytes
« Reply #39 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 8:11pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Some then and now views.
 
Then:
Just south of the station area. I liked the sound of the old GE's  
CX1 8/26/1977


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/DH_CX1_Carbondale_PA_82677_3.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »