Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Nov 22nd, 2017, 11:15pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


Penn Division Photo Tour
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Fallen Flags
   Delaware & Hudson
(Moderators: Matthew_L, x600, NKP759fan)
   Penn Division Photo Tour
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: Penn Division Photo Tour  (Read 5187 times)
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P4210193_Small-2.jpg - 73633 Bytes
« Reply #260 on: Apr 27th, 2009, 7:42pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

We went back to the trailhead and then  proceeded south towards Vandling. This time of year during trout season they open this section up for cars for fishing so we went "fishing" ourselves (for artifacts   ) Normally you can't do this but hey, why not  
 
Anyway at the time my GPS data was a bit off since this area is far from any known mile posts so my projected data was not accurate. I knew one was across a bridge beyond their rails-trails area. We parked at the end of the drivable section and I walked south. Before reaching the bridge on the west side of the railbed, about 40 feet in was this amazing find. There are a total of 12 concrete pads, about 7 to 8 feet high and there appears to be a foundation (rectangular) around it. I was running out of daylight and still needed to nail a mile post so I grabbed this shot and moved on.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P4210193_Small-2.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P4210208_Small.jpg - 90133 Bytes
« Reply #261 on: Apr 27th, 2009, 7:44pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Finally scored! This is mile post A173-36 toppled over. The numbers were not readable but this GPS mark allowed me to correct the drift in my projected mile posts. Now we hope to drive this section again    and see if I can locate the other two in the region since I was off by about 190 feet southward.  
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P4210208_Small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P5020109_Small.jpg - 82600 Bytes
« Reply #262 on: May 4th, 2009, 6:12am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

We took another look between Melrose and Stevens Point this weekend. The growth is starting but not bad yet. I was hoping to find three mile posts but none were found. This section has very few artifacts except for a few relay and signal bases. As we cross into Stevens Point this was seen. It looks like a loading platform or perhaps the D&H was slightly elevated in this area?

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P5020109_Small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P5020118_Small.jpg - 81989 Bytes
« Reply #263 on: May 4th, 2009, 6:13am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

The bridge just north of here is missing. You just divert around it via the hard road for a short bit. This is one of the abutments.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P5020118_Small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P5020120_Small.jpg - 84826 Bytes
« Reply #264 on: May 4th, 2009, 6:14am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

The other abutment. It is missing almost half probably due to upsurges in the creek during heavy flow. The side missing is the upstream side. This probably explains why they removed the spans.  
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P5020120_Small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P4210212_Small.jpg - 85424 Bytes
« Reply #265 on: May 4th, 2009, 5:09pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

This is another picture of the same area at the top of this page. The 12 concrete pads I found just before finding Mile Post A173. This gives a perspective of size and you get a rare look of the "man behind the camera"  
 


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P4210212_Small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Geoff
Railfan
Posts: 130
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #266 on: May 13th, 2009, 11:57am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Nicely Done. You should consider doing a book on old railroad grades in NE PA.  
 
The trestle pit near Starrucca Viaduct was from a coal dealership. It was discussed in this thread http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=DH;action=display;num=1184415406 . A link to a photo taken from the top of the viaduct clearly shows the building associated with the coal drop.  
 
Nice find of the old turntable at Jeff Junction. Haven't walked there in a couple of years. Last time I went it was not visible. From the diagrams from 1934 the D & H had a small yard near the junction, just a couple of stub end tracks. The turntable was used up till the end of steam to turn smaller engines. It was way too small to turn the Mallets and Challengers.  
 
Have you ever seen the Books by Michael Kudish on railroad grades in the Adirondacks? The first book was titled "Where did the Tracks Go" and the second book "Railroads of the Adirondacks, a History"
He did extensive research in the Adirondack region of NY (He is a Professor of Forestry at Paul Smiths College in NY)
 
I understand he is working on a new volume that will build on the first two works. Might be of interest to you.  
 
The remains near Forest City might be from a breaker operated by the Erie. They had one in Forest City on the left side (Going Northbound) of the railroad.  
 
Carstens put out a publication "Delaware and Hudson, Challengers and Northerns" that has many photos of the D & H during the late steam era. Interesting to compare the old photos to yours.  
 
 
Once again kudos to your work.


Logged
Geoff
Railfan
Posts: 130
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #267 on: May 13th, 2009, 2:44pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Me again!  The large building on the spur line in Thompson was apparently a Coal Dealer. The bottom of the building has bins that were fed through small doors at track level. The bins emptied inside the building. Trucks or wagons would enter the building in the front (Street) and were fed by chutes. The bin doors can be opened and the slope of the bins is obvious. There is (or was) a sign warning folks not to enter the bins. The top of the structure was used for offloading stuff (?) and appears to be some type of warehouse, perhaps used to offload or onload feed for the feed mill across rt171. There is a strange contraption next to the building that appears to be the base for an unloading chute of some type. Someone is using the building for storage as the doors are in good repair and locked.  
 
Went today for a walk at Jeff junction. Saw the remaining stones from the turntable. The large square stone in the creek with the bolt heads sticking out may have been the center support for the table. It is in the approximate location the center support would be.  
 
The area is higly prone to washouts and the RR was constantly fighting erosion. I can see why it was abandoned for the easier grades of the old DL&W.  
 
As to the structure at Stevens Point, it appears to be a loading ramp of some type, perhaps to load bluestone onto railcars. The area is full of Quarries.


Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #268 on: May 14th, 2009, 4:35pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 13th, 2009, 11:57am, Geoff wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Nicely Done. You should consider doing a book on old railroad grades in NE PA.  
 
The trestle pit near Starrucca Viaduct was from a coal dealership. It was discussed in this thread http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=DH;action=display;num=1184415406 . A link to a photo taken from the top of the viaduct clearly shows the building associated with the coal drop.  
 
Nice find of the old turntable at Jeff Junction. Haven't walked there in a couple of years. Last time I went it was not visible. From the diagrams from 1934 the D & H had a small yard near the junction, just a couple of stub end tracks. The turntable was used up till the end of steam to turn smaller engines. It was way too small to turn the Mallets and Challengers.  
 
Have you ever seen the Books by Michael Kudish on railroad grades in the Adirondacks? The first book was titled "Where did the Tracks Go" and the second book "Railroads of the Adirondacks, a History"
He did extensive research in the Adirondack region of NY (He is a Professor of Forestry at Paul Smiths College in NY)
 
I understand he is working on a new volume that will build on the first two works. Might be of interest to you.  
 
The remains near Forest City might be from a breaker operated by the Erie. They had one in Forest City on the left side (Going Northbound) of the railroad.  
 
Carstens put out a publication "Delaware and Hudson, Challengers and Northerns" that has many photos of the D & H during the late steam era. Interesting to compare the old photos to yours.  
 
 
Once again kudos to your work.

 
 
I forgot about that other thread and that picture is exactly the spot. The picture also indicates what the rubble was next to the pit.  
 
From looking at the turntable remains, it is at a lower grade then the railbed. backing up to the next bridge past Jefferson Junction, I posted a photo showing the abutments of another bridge that would be at the correct level to lead to that turntable. Apparently when the abandoned the turntable, they filled it in and made the railbed higher. WHen we walked it three years ago, the turntable remains was not seen. It is only the erosion that now exposes the remains of it but the downside is how much of the railbed is now gone. (Page 9 of this thread shows the lower abutments before the turntable)
 
I just picked up two videos off ebay of the D&H's Penn Division. The video was shot in 1979-1985 which is as recent as you can get before abandonment. I am hoping to reference items we saw as we explored the line. So much has changed since that time it is amazing.  
 
Mike


« Last Edit: May 14th, 2009, 4:38pm by mike_nepa » Logged
Ashley_John
Historian
Posts: 616
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #269 on: May 14th, 2009, 4:40pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 14th, 2009, 4:35pm, mike_nepa wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I just picked up two videos off ebay of the D&H's Penn Division. The video was shot in 1979-1985 which is as recent as you can get before abandonment.  
 
Mike

 
Hi Mike, I'm interested if you can share the titles of those videos?
 
Thanks,
 
John


Logged

Riding the rails of the past via media and exploration.
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P4110088_Small.jpg - 94191 Bytes
« Reply #270 on: May 14th, 2009, 4:44pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

A few more photos of the building in Thompson. Facing the building, this is the left side. You can see a set of stairs made with ties leading down to the back of the building.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P4110088_Small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P4110089_Small.jpg - 66333 Bytes
« Reply #271 on: May 14th, 2009, 4:45pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

This is an offset shot of the front, you can see one of the rails poking out under the brush in front.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P4110089_Small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
  P4110094_Small.jpg - 82571 Bytes
« Reply #272 on: May 14th, 2009, 4:46pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

A shot from the right side of the building looking to the rear. This shows some sort of road that leads to the rear of the building. Since it was posted, we did not try to enter the building. I should have taken an actual look around the back side of it but oh well.  
 
Mike


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/DH/P4110094_Small.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Geoff
Railfan
Posts: 130
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #273 on: May 14th, 2009, 8:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Funny I just watched those videos today. Rain kept me indoors so I dug them out. Mine are old VHS tapes but they are now available on DVD. Had an interesting time trying to figure out where the movies were taken.  
 
Might give some clues as to where and what type of signals were used. As well as where the mile posts were.  
 
I have a VHS tape made during the late steam era. Title "Vintage Rails Vol 1" First half is D & H and the first ten minutes covers the Penn Division from Scranton to Oneonta. Taken when the line was double tracked. Have seen the tape transferred to DVD but cannot find who has it. Not available on any of the usual DVD sites. The VHS tape was done by JMJ Productions. The basis was a 16 MM movie that was transferred to VHS by the RPI club. Movie was made in 1947.
 
RE the building at Thompson. The small tombstone shaped doors below the large doors lead to the coal bins. Two of the doors have plywood coverings. They were open and the slope of the bins was visible inside when I last wandered up there. Trucks or wagons entered the building from doors that faced to the sides. Post 270 shows one of the doors at the bottom of the stairs. The interior probably had chutes to load the coal. Have to get back there, since I live up the road I will investigate further.  
 
There are also foundations next to the track on the cemetery side, something was there at one time.  
 
Now I am digging through my library, lots of interesting photos in various books.  Considering the line was owned by the Erie untill 1954 the amount of material in D & H books is interesting. The D & H single tracked the line after they took controll and may have built up the roadbed at that time. I am surprised how the grade differs at the turntable site.  
 
Enough for now!
 


« Last Edit: May 14th, 2009, 8:23pm by Geoff » Logged
Ashley_John
Historian
Posts: 616
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #274 on: May 14th, 2009, 10:19pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 14th, 2009, 8:20pm, Geoff wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Funny I just watched those videos today.

 
Geoff, what's the titles of these videos?  
 
Quote:
I have a VHS tape made during the late steam era. Title "Vintage Rails Vol 1" First half is D & H and the first ten minutes covers the Penn Division from Scranton to Oneonta. Taken when the line was double tracked. Have seen the tape transferred to DVD but cannot find who has it. Not available on any of the usual DVD sites. The VHS tape was done by JMJ Productions. The basis was a 16 MM movie that was transferred to VHS by the RPI club. Movie was made in 1947.

 
I have "Vintage Rails Vol 1" on DVD. It is available though gandydancer.
 
I'm pretty sure the older footage was shot on 8mm and only the later footage of the PA's and newer diesels being shot on 16mm film. I have tried to contact Tony Reznak Jr. (owner of JMJ and producer of the video) directly via email with no luck. The contact info I have lists him as residing in the Wilkes-Barre area, but that information may be outdated.
 
Gandydancer has been the only source I have found for JMJ Productions videos.
 
John


Logged

Riding the rails of the past via media and exploration.
Geoff
Railfan
Posts: 130
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #275 on: May 15th, 2009, 5:51am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

OOPs sorry
 
The videos are "D & H Penn Division Vol 1 and Vol 2. They are available from Sam Botts who sells them on E Bay. He has them on DVD. My VHS tapes are from 1992 and were produced by Nelson Guild Productions. The tapes are starting to show their age, get the DVD's.  
 
The Vintage Rails footage mostly came from a 16mm film made by a cinematographer named Charles Allen Elston in 1947. Some of the additional footage was from other artists, including the great J J Young. The RPI MRRC converted Elston's film to a very bad VHS tape, the Vintage Rails crew cleaned up and Digitally enhanced the footage and added additional footage.  
 
Together these films are a priceless look into the operation of the Jefferson and related trackage.  
 
Thanks for the heads up on the Vintage Rails DVD, need to get one before my VHS tapes crap out.


« Last Edit: May 15th, 2009, 6:59pm by Geoff » Logged
mike_nepa
Historian
Posts: 1848
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #276 on: May 15th, 2009, 6:18am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 15th, 2009, 5:51am, Geoff wrote:       (Click here for original message)
OOPs sorry
 
The videos are "D & H Penn Division Vol 1 and Vol 2. They are available from Sam Botts who sells them on E Bay. He has them on DVD. My VHS tapes are from 1992 and were produced by Nelson Guild Productions. The tapes are starting to show their age, get the DVD's. .

 
Those are the ones I bought off Ebay. I figured they would be good ones since they show footage closest to before abandonment. In some frames you can see mile posts and even read a few of them! It also appears there may have been mile posts on both side of the tracks. I have only ever seen posts on one side. That may be where some have told me one side would have the numbers like "A155" the other "W102" (For Albany and Wilkes-Barre respectively)  All the posts I have seen have only the A designation on both sides of the post and most cases can make out the old Erie numbers under it. (they were carved out then filled in)  
 
I doubt I could post screenshots from the video but using my DVD program, took some screenshots of some areas of interest.  
 
One thing I did notice is the appearance of three tracks at Jefferson Junction, the third set appears to curve away from the other two. The author focuses on the locomotives naturally, but sometimes off center you can see things.
 
Mike


Logged
Ashley_John
Historian
Posts: 616
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #277 on: May 15th, 2009, 9:06am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on May 15th, 2009, 5:51am, Geoff wrote:       (Click here for original message)
OOPs sorry
 
The videos are "D & H Penn Division Vol 1 and Vol 2. They are available from Sam Botts who sells them on E Bay.

 
Thanks for the information. I just may have to pick these up  
 
Quote:
The Vintage Rails footage mostly came from a 16mm film made by a cinematographer named David Elston in 1947. Some of the additional footage was from other artists, including the great J J Young. The RPI MRRC converted Elston's film to a very bad VHS tape, the Vintage Rails crew cleaned up and Digitally enhanced the footage and added additional footage.

 
That would explain the wide difference in image quality between the '47 footage and the 70's footage. I presume the original '47 film footage is long gone? A real shame if it is.
 
Quote:
Together these films are a priceless look into the operation of the Jefferson and related trackage.

 
Couldn't agree more with you.  
 
Quote:
Thanks for the heads up on the Vintage Rails DVD, need to get one before my VHS tapes crap out.

 
You're quite welcome. Years ago, I've seen brief clips of this video and had to have a copy, so I did some searching and turned up the gandydancer source.
 
JP


Logged

Riding the rails of the past via media and exploration.
Frank_D
Historian
Posts: 455
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #278 on: May 15th, 2009, 11:16am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

A source for those videos is:
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/SJB-Productions__W0QQ_armrsZ1
 
There was a review of volume one in the Bridge Line HS Bulletin in the April issue.


Logged
Geoff
Railfan
Posts: 130
Re: Penn Division Photo Tour
 
« Reply #279 on: May 15th, 2009, 2:17pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Quote:

One thing I did notice is the appearance of three tracks at Jefferson Junction, the third set appears to curve away from the other two. The author focuses on the locomotives naturally, but sometimes off center you can see things.
 
Mike

 
The third track would be Hanrahan's siding. This is where high and wide cars were set off to await northbound trains over the Erie thru Susquehanna to get them around Belden tunnel before the Jefferson was embargoed. During the great Belden Tunnel shuffle in the 80's it was used as a pocket track for engines held there to assist the switchback of trains.
 
I'm still looking into the Building in Thompson, none of the locals in the food store had any idea!!! There was definitely a major cleanup in the area, the motorcar house is empty and the unloading stand on the left side of the building is gone   should have photographed it when I had the chance. There are several old fabric belts on the ground in front of the building (Street Side) with metal scoops, looks like some type of conveyor belt. I am wondering now if the building was something besides a coal dealer. I will keep digging.  
 
Addendum: If you look carefully at your photo in Reply 272 you can see the conveyor belts in the weeds.  
 
Need to find old Sanborn fire maps for the Erie RR! Anyone have any idea where they can be obtained?


« Last Edit: May 15th, 2009, 7:04pm by Geoff » Logged
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »