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D&H General Discussion
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   Author  Topic: D&H General Discussion  (Read 1268 times)
NKP759fan
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D&H General Discussion
 
« on: Apr 9th, 2005, 9:11pm »
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Post anything here. I'd like to see what pictures you guys have of the D&H.  . I keep thinking about how great the D&H once was and today is on life support by CP. It's still sad but change is inevitable.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
KingCoal
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Posts: 1362
Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #1 on: Apr 12th, 2005, 1:24am »
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Some of the guys were up at the cabin last weekend (geting ready for trout season)
and told me they are seeing a lot more action over the nicholson Viaduct.
I know that CP Rail has access to this thru the old D&H and that Norfolk Southern
has trackage rights, can any one confirm if the action is pickng up?
Jim


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NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #2 on: Apr 16th, 2005, 9:50am »
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I have heard that the line up in Nicholson is very busy. I have heard that Steamtown wants to run up there but the line is so busy up there that it would be very hard to get a train there. I believe the Nicholson Viaduct is single tracked now.  That is what I heard. Feel free to add anything here guys.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
zwsplac
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Posts: 938
Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #3 on: Apr 16th, 2005, 7:39pm »
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You know, one question I've always had about the D&H was how busy of a railroad it was. On the map, it's pretty much just a Motreal to Wilkes-Barre Bridge line, but in photos, it has a big time feel to it, like Double Track mains, big bridges, signals, etc. How busy was it and where did all it's traffic come from?

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NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #4 on: Apr 16th, 2005, 8:07pm »
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Well, most of the D&H's revenue in the steam era came from North Eastern, Pa in which the D&H's Penn Division was located.Anthracite coal is what the D&H was created for, to transport it. It first began in the canals and then over to the railroad when engineers solved railroading problems.  The D&H also strived on the early 1900's for passenger service but beginning in the mid 20's passengers began to disappear from the railroad and began appearing on the nation's highway system. But in 1976 when the eastern railroads were quickly dissolving and Conrail was created, the D&H in a way took over operations from other railroads and got an extended service order from Conrail. Hope this helped a bit. Guys, feel free to add anything else, just because I'm the moderator does not mean I know everything

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #5 on: Apr 18th, 2005, 4:07pm »
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What do you guys think was the D&H's finest engineering feat. The Lackawanna's was the Nicholson Viaduct and the NJ Cutoff but I really do not know of the D&H's major engineering feat. I'd probally say their steam engines were an engineering feat.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #6 on: Apr 19th, 2005, 7:22am »
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Do you guys have any questions about the D&H, I'd be happy to answer them. I'm sure there are many here who would like to learn about the D&H. Come on guys, join in on the discussions.  

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #7 on: Apr 19th, 2005, 6:25pm »
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Does anyone know where the D&H Challengers and steam locomotives in general were scrapped?

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
zwsplac
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Posts: 938
Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #8 on: Apr 19th, 2005, 10:34pm »
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on Apr 18th, 2005, 4:07pm, NKP759fan wrote:       (Click here for original message)
What do you guys think was the D&H's finest engineering feat. The Lackawanna's was the Nicholson Viaduct and the NJ Cutoff but I really do not know of the D&H's major engineering feat. I'd probally say their steam engines were an engineering feat.

 
Probably the Harpursville bridge, IMO, allthough their line along Lake Champlain is pretty sweet.


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NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #9 on: Apr 23rd, 2005, 9:23am »
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I was reading through my D&H book and came across these interesting statistics concerning productivity.  
 
                                 1964                         1924
Freight Train Miles..1,798,673              4,396,584
 
Revenue Tons per
    train...................  1,944                         796
 
Revenue ton miles per
employee hour.......   514                           108
 
Locomotives  
Operated...............   145                           480
 
Average #  
of employees.......   2,836                        13,516
 
 


« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2005, 9:23am by NKP759fan » Logged

Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
NKP759fan
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Posts: 1712
Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #10 on: Apr 24th, 2005, 4:37pm »
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    I came upon an interesting fact today. The D&H in the 1930's owned about 10% of the NYC. L.F Loree, the D&H's president at the time sold his Stock Holdings from the Lehigh Valley & Wabash to the Pennyslvania Railway for $63,000,000 back in 1932!! Loree made a $22,000,000 profit for the D&H and invested this money to buy 595,000 shares of NYC stock. This gave the 840 mile D&H as stated above, 10% control and the largest single ownership in the 11,000 mile giant. It's interesting, that one of the most powerful railroads collapsed before the D&H did.  , which shows what a great railroad the D&H was and in a way still is.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #11 on: Apr 27th, 2005, 4:40pm »
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Here's an interesting article I found.
http://www.thedailystar.com/opinion/columns/simonson/2005/04/simonson0409.html


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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #12 on: Apr 29th, 2005, 7:53pm »
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Can someone tell me what happened to the D&H after Guilford transportation industries, I heard that Guilford dumped the D&H in bankruptcy and I don't know what happened to the D&H after that. I know CP bought the D&H in 1993, but the history of the D&H in the late 70's and 80's is confusing. Also, can someone tell how the D&H got to the point of Bankruptcy. Thanks in advance.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
Matthew_L
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #13 on: May 4th, 2005, 8:24pm »
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According to Southern Tier Lines, Guilford got into financial troubles because of a strike at Springfield Terminal.  The employees there were protesting the lower pay and benefits they received in comparison to other Guilford workers (e.g. MEC, D&H, etc.)  Management refused to negotiate. That action proved to be a huge cost drain, as the strike effectively shut the yard down and crippled the entire system.  Guilford declared Chapter #11 in '88 and dumped D&H because they felt it was the least necessary piece of their system.  Suzie-Q took over on a temporary basis in '88 and ran it till '91 when CP took over operations.  
 
BTW, the book is mostly pictures, including operations on the ex-EL and the last days of the Penn Division.


« Last Edit: May 4th, 2005, 8:25pm by Matthew_L » Logged

Best wishes to all,
Matthew L

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P.S. All aboard for the last train to Hammondsport!
Conrail6707
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #14 on: May 23rd, 2005, 10:32pm »
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I guess this would be the best place to post this out of all the topics on this board.
 
I was in Oneonta (New York, for anyone who doesn't know), along the former D&H on Saturday and Sunday to visit some relatives (and to attend a Bridge-Line Historical Soc. luncheon (sp?)), and saw some action heading both to and from Oneonta. The first train I saw was CN runthrough CP 930 in Binghampton, which had a CN SD40U, CN SD40-2W, and NS SD40-2.  Between Binghampton and Oneonta, I saw CP 255 with five CP SD40-2's. On the way back, I saw (and chased) a westbound freight (possibly CP 164) with an SD40-2 leading an SD40-2F "Red Barn" and two more SD40-2's. I was set up for a shot, only to find that the train was operating on a different section of track!   I should be back next summer and/or fall, so hopefully I'll be able to do some actual railfanning (something I have yet to do on the 10+ visits to the area) on the "old D&H" soon.


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NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #15 on: May 24th, 2005, 4:52pm »
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Can't wait for the story dougal . It would have been pretty neat if you saw the D&H GP-38's there. The 7312 is my favorite.

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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #16 on: May 28th, 2005, 9:44am »
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Why do you guys think the D&H scrapped all their steam engines? I think they wanted to get every last penny for their engines but still they had the most unique steam engines around. Why didn't they save them?


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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
Matthew_L
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #17 on: Jun 3rd, 2005, 3:00pm »
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As with other nearby RRs, the anthracite traffic was dying in the post-WWII era and bridge traffic (e.g. piggybacks) hadn't really developed yet.  Although D&H was much healthier than DL&W, Erie or LV, it really couldn't afford to spend money on preserving steam engines.  I suppose if someone like Blount had offered D&H a fair price for an engine, they might've sold one to him. Otherwise, it's off to the scrap heap to partially fund a new diesel.
 
FYI, the only surviving DL&W steamers were two engines that were sold or given away well before dieselization took place.  I don't think very many D&H steamers made their way to other RRs.    


« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2005, 6:59pm by Matthew_L » Logged

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P.S. All aboard for the last train to Hammondsport!
NKP759fan
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Re: D&H General Discussion
  dh_302_01-1280.jpg - 137087 Bytes
« Reply #18 on: Jun 17th, 2005, 7:07pm »
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Here's a picture of the Reading T-1 dressed up as D&H Northern 302. Picture courtesy of http://www.castlegraphics.com


Image exceeds display size of 900 pixels wide. (137087 bytes, 1280x960 pixels)


Click Here to View Image dh_302_01-1280.jpg - 137087 Bytes


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Nickel Plate Road "Berkshire" #759
Built: August 1944
Builder: Lima Locomotives Works
Driver diameter: 69 inches
Boiler Pressure: 245
Coal: 22 tons
Water: 22,000 gallons
Retired: 1958
Used on the famous High Iron Excursions
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/steamtown/shs2o.htm
Matthew_L
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Re: D&H General Discussion
 
« Reply #19 on: Jun 23rd, 2005, 4:32pm »
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on Apr 16th, 2005, 8:07pm, NKP759fan wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Well, most of the D&H's revenue in the steam era came from North Eastern, Pa in which the D&H's Penn Division was located.Anthracite coal is what the D&H was created for, to transport it....  But in 1976 when the eastern railroads were quickly dissolving and Conrail was created, the D&H in a way took over operations from other railroads and got an extended service order from Conrail. Hope this helped a bit. Guys, feel free to add anything else, just because I'm the moderator does not mean I know everything
 D&H also had an interesting history in the years between the end of anthracite and the beginning of CR.  Due to it's connections with roads like CP and B&M, D&H was also a bridge route that fed traffic to/from DL&W, EL, Erie, LV and even Pennsy.  This probably helped to keep both EL and LV running near the end of their respective operations.  A few of my RR books actually show a "meet" between a D&H train headed in one direction on the EL, while another was headed the other way on LV!    


« Last Edit: Jun 23rd, 2005, 4:34pm by Matthew_L » Logged

Best wishes to all,
Matthew L

moderator- D&H, Erie Lackawanna/Erie and LA&L/B&H/WNYP

P.S. All aboard for the last train to Hammondsport!
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