Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Dec 12th, 2017, 12:42pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Fallen Flags
   Jersey Central Lines
(Moderators: Flemington Flyer, Henry)
   Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)  (Read 16941 times)
njvike
Historian
Posts: 2855
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
  tochatsworth-2.jpg - 97184 Bytes
« Reply #140 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 6:17pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Looking towards Chatsworth

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/CNJ/tochatsworth-2.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
njvike
Historian
Posts: 2855
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
  sand.jpg - 87214 Bytes
« Reply #141 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 6:18pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Looking towards Whiting and Lakehurst. I presume this was done to stop the ATVs?

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/CNJ/sand.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
njvike
Historian
Posts: 2855
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
  cnj-4.jpg - 48642 Bytes
« Reply #142 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 6:21pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

At a quick look, it almost appears that if the URL was for the CNJ. I thought there was a site to explain all of this clearing going on  

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/CNJ/cnj-4.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
njvike
Historian
Posts: 2855
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
  rt72bridge.jpg - 40939 Bytes
« Reply #143 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 6:23pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Looking at the bridge one more time I see it isn't related to the CNJ  
 
Please let us know what's going on down there and any progress on the work being performed.
 
Thanks


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/CNJ/rt72bridge.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
njvike
Historian
Posts: 2855
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
  treefarm.jpg - 80044 Bytes
« Reply #144 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 6:24pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Looking south by the Tree Farm

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/CNJ/treefarm.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
njvike
Historian
Posts: 2855
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
  framdirections.jpg - 65592 Bytes
« Reply #145 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 6:26pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

At the tree farm.

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/CNJ/framdirections.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
Hulka
Railfan
Posts: 176
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #146 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 11:09pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

OK, you are out on Pasadena Rd.  That must be another pit that hey use. When you said "Clayton" I thought you were refering to the one of Route 537 in between Route 527 & Route 527.  The Manchester/Jackson Border.  On My GPS map for my Garmin it shows that the tracks stop in the woods out in Pemberton Twp.  The road that runs up to iit is "Glassworks".  It looks to be and unpaved road.  They start up again in "Waterford Twp." by ELM.  It is on the Whitehorse Pike North of Route 206.
 
I have Google Earth and plugged this in and followed it up to the Route 72 Bridge.  Started from here:
 
Here is the GPS Position for Waterford Twp. :N39 41.219 W74 48.757
 
What looks like a bridge :Bridge" lat=39.7495941385, lon=-74.6935727576
 
Another Bridge : "Bridge 2" lat=39.7551450712, lon=-74.6791455855
 
Chatsworth Fire House: "Chatsworth Fire House" lat=39.8184391524, lon=-74.5358709361  
 
If you keep following the row you will see the route 72 bridge and more.  I zoomed in and tilted it on and angle so I can see what was coming ahead.  Pretty neat.  
 
You would need a good 4x4 or a quad, but I woder if those are still bridges intact from the route the trains used to take.  
 
Enjoy.
 
Kevin


Logged
Eddie M.
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 2027
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #147 on: Dec 6th, 2006, 6:46pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

  The Clayton Sand rail spur is going to be re-activated as per request by Mr. Clayton himself.
   The rehabilitation and reactivation was okay'd by the necessary surface agencies .
   Clayton expects the line to be done and readied for traffic in 2007.
    .........How do you like that?


Logged

Railroads are a weakness we all share..
Hulka
Railfan
Posts: 176
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #148 on: Dec 6th, 2006, 11:46pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

So I am going to gather that they are going to come through Lakehurst and into the "Whitings" and then out to Pasadena to Clayton Sand.  Before I moved out to Az. in '04 I used to hunt out there some but mostly ride my motorcycle out that way and into Burlington County through the back roads.  The tracks out there along Pasadena Rd Looked to be almost new condition.  I beleive that they redid that section then stopped all rail traffic down that way just after it was completed.  Are they shipping the sand somewhere or is Mr. Clayton shipping sand from one pit to another?

Logged
GP72ACe

View Profile  

Posts: 849
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #149 on: Dec 7th, 2006, 2:22am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I'm sure you've all read in the newspapers about the George Warrington-promised and (apparently) casino-sponsored resurrection of the old Amtrak service between New York and Atlantic City, via Frankfort Junction in Philly, to be operated by NJ Transit.  Now given the revenue that the casino barons have on hand, how hard would it be for them to sponsor a rebuild of this line for a faster journey, between AC and Hoboken…?

Logged
robertjohndavis
Railfan
View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 225
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #150 on: Dec 7th, 2006, 8:00am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 7th, 2006, 2:22am, Irish Chieftain wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I'm sure you've all read in the newspapers about the George Warrington-promised and (apparently) casino-sponsored resurrection of the old Amtrak service between New York and Atlantic City, via Frankfort Junction in Philly, to be operated by NJ Transit.  Now given the revenue that the casino barons have on hand, how hard would it be for them to sponsor a rebuild of this line for a faster journey, between AC and Hoboken??

 
 
 
I would love to see the Southern Div restored, but the idea of using the casino train may not be the way to do it.
 
First, there is the assumption that the CNJ route would be faster. What was the time difference between the Nelly Bly and the Blue Comet? Not much if I recall. I would not assume that shorter equals faster in this case.
 
Even if it did, would it be wise to trade New Brunswick and Trenton for Red Bank and Lakewood as the largest en route cities? Of course, that's assuming the train would make stops.
 
For my money, the part of the casino train route that needs to be fixed is the crawl from Hoboken to Newark. It dumbfounds me that this service is not running from NYP.
 
Rob


Logged


Ahead of the Torch
http://www.robertjohndavis.com/

Hulka
Railfan
Posts: 176
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #151 on: Dec 7th, 2006, 9:43am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

They should use the comet route to AC.  There are a few major senior towns that are right by, actually it runs through the middle of the "Whitings".  Also Holiday City and Leisure Village in Manchester are right there too.  The old Ciba plant would be a great spot for a Station.  It also would be a good spot to head north into the city, NYC Newark ect.  The track and signals are already there so it would be just a matter of refurbishing the line into the plant, and making a station and some more parking.  There are numerous senior developments in the general area besides the other people that head to the AC area on the weekends to gamble and have fun.

Logged
GP72ACe

View Profile  

Posts: 849
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #152 on: Dec 8th, 2006, 7:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Quote:
First, there is the assumption that the CNJ route would be faster. What was the time difference between the Nelly Bly and the Blue Comet? Not much if I recall
What with the PRR putting the squeeze on the Blue Comet once the P-RSL came into being, I could imagine that the PRR swung things in favor of their trains that operated via the Camden & Amboy and their segment of the Belvidere line between Bordentown and Trenton (name from that era escapes me; Conrail's name was "Bordentown Secondary").  The Comet itself lasted a mere twelve years (ending in 1941) whereas the PRR's service to Atlantic City lasted until the 60s.
 
What with no such competition nowadays, a route that is over twenty miles shorter would indeed be faster, especially since the reverse move at Frankford Junction  would extend the journey to over 3˝ hours, possibly four hours.  (The details of the new NJT service are not yet set in stone.)  No reason not to have a journey time of 2˝ hours via the Blue Comet route, even if you're held down to 80 mph on that segment.  
 
As for New Brunswick or such places, check out the M-O-M NJ Transit proposals, chief among them using the PRR branches via Jamesburg and Freehold to Farmingdale to access the Southern Division (purpose being to avoid duplication of Coast Line service and to serve places not currently served by rail).  Current projected terminus is Lakehurst; but if the casinos wanted a route that would be free of Amtrak interference, they could put their weight behind this route all the way to Winslow.  (But I don't see them being terribly serious about having a route that would work.)
 
Since NJ Transit put light rail on the Nellie Bly route between Trenton and Pennsauken, that route is no longer available.


« Last Edit: Dec 11th, 2006, 1:24am by GP72ACe » Logged
Andy_S
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 346
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #153 on: Dec 10th, 2006, 10:50pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

A couple of observations and opinions:  NJ light rail, aka the River Line, does not go to Pennington, though that's a good idea.  Refurbishing the Southern Division for speeds down to 80 mph has got to be a stretch, again, IMO.
  When the River Line was being built, they did not merely lay new rail and ballast.  They removed most of the ties, rails, ballast and stripped the existing roadbed down to level ground.  They put in welded rail and mostly concrete sleepers, and double tracked previous single track stretches.   In short, they built almost a whole new line.  I'm not saying that is exactly what has to be done here in South Jersey, I am not an engineer, but that is what I look to see happen.  And the River Line took way beyond its allotted time for completion.  There are a lot of grade crossings south of Lakewood, too.  Still, I would love to see any kind of train moving on through the Pines.


Logged
GP72ACe

View Profile  

Posts: 849
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #154 on: Dec 11th, 2006, 1:30am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Quote:
NJ light rail, aka the River Line, does not go to Pennington, though that's a good idea
Yup, typed Pennington when I meant Pennsauken.  Pennington is on the former Reading route.  (And funny enough, it was not a stop when NJ Transit was running service on that route to West Trenton.)  Pennington won't be able to get light rail service, but perhaps it would have the commuter rail service restored at a future date, that is unless NJ completely falls apart financially.
 
The so-called "River Line" has been rebuilt good enough to run commuter rail on it.  But there were some political reasons behind using light rail on it…


Logged
njvike
Historian
Posts: 2855
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #155 on: Dec 11th, 2006, 8:31am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 10th, 2006, 10:50pm, Andy_S wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Still, I would love to see any kind of train moving on through the Pines.  

 
Andy,
 
Any movement on the Southern Division would be great. Especially if it increases traffic on the line. I've been down at Lakehurst quite a few times and rarely see anything other than an engine.
 
I'm not holding my breathe on seeing NJT start some casino train but if it did happen, that would be icing on the cake.
 
Let's hope to see something we haven't seen in 20 years; give or take.


Logged
njvike
Historian
Posts: 2855
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #156 on: Dec 11th, 2006, 8:33am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 6th, 2006, 6:46pm, Eddie M. wrote:       (Click here for original message)
  The Clayton Sand rail spur is going to be re-activated as per request by Mr. Clayton himself.
   The rehabilitation and reactivation was okay'd by the necessary surface agencies .
   Clayton expects the line to be done and readied for traffic in 2007.
              .........How do you like that?

 
 
Eddie,
 
That's great news. I did check into the NJT rumor with someone who I consider a very reliable source and he says "nothing in the works".  
 
Hey, I'm happy to see anything on the line.


Logged
Hulka
Railfan
Posts: 176
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #157 on: Dec 11th, 2006, 9:56am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

If you hear anything or see some activity keep me posted.  I remember as a kid driving in the car with my dad down School House Rd and seeing and engine parked on the track between Rt.530 and Wranglebrook Rd. a couple of times,  this being the early 80's.  I took my quad 1 time from Rt.527 down the tracks through Lakehurst and into Manchester, Zarko, aka. Herritage Minerals, sand pit.  The tracks south of Lakehurst are going to need a lot of TLC in one area as they were mostly sumerged into the swamp that runs along the tracks there.  Otherwise the rest of the tracks that go into the sand pit were in pretty good shape from what I recall.  The ROW was maintain in a sense from all the ATV/Dirt bike traffic.  I know that once you hit in the Wrangle Brook Rd area there are trees growing  through the ROW.  I took that ride in '96 so it has been 10 years now and I am sure a lot has changed.  I took the dirt road that runs along side the tracks untill I came across a big pine tree that fell across the road which went back about about 3/4 of a mile and there is a lot of brush growing through the area of the ROW.

« Last Edit: Dec 11th, 2006, 9:59am by Hulka » Logged
Andy_S
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 346
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #158 on: Dec 13th, 2006, 8:31pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

OK, gang.  I went to Lakehust this PM and spotted CR 4431 on the sanding/fueling track.  There were piles of fresh wood chips along the CNJ ROW, and it appeared that the weeds had been mashed into the rails by something heavy.  Sure enough, I look south and there are emergency flashers astride the tracks about a quarter mile away.  And stumps of 4-5" diameter trees cut down below the tops of the rails at my feet.  Hi-rail with a wood chipper?  Maybe.  I drive to Whiting, and the trees are gone between the rails north and south of there, too.  But, no sign of any heavy flanged wheels are evident at any of the crossings down to Rte 539.  Had to leave sooner than expected, so I continued S on 539 to 72 and took a short run up Pasadena Rd, but not as far as Clayton Sand ops.  So, yeah, there you have a wordy version of "yes, there is something running"
Andy


Logged
Hulka
Railfan
Posts: 176
Re: Exploring the Southern Division (Blue Comet)
 
« Reply #159 on: Dec 13th, 2006, 9:29pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Andy, if you head south on Rt.539 to Mc Mahon Ave. and take that road , you can only go to the right coming from cherry street.  Mc Mahon Ave. is about 7 tenths of a mile south of Cherry Street, and it will run into Pasadena Ave. after the "S" curve.  Keep following Pasadena and it will run right along the tracks after about a mile or so.  You can follow it right to Rt.#72 along with Clayton Sand.  Little faster than going all the way to Rt.#72 and heading back to Pasadena Ave.  The tracks out in Pasadena should be still in pretty good condition.  They were all replaced just before they stopped service on that part of the line.

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »