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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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   Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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   Author  Topic: Re: What do you think of the BR&W?  (Read 1543 times)
Christian_S.
Former Member
Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
 
« Reply #40 on: Aug 17th, 2007, 11:43am »
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Hey Adam,
 
Please don't take this personally, but this rumor (and I don't know how it began) of the "big, bad Joe Kovalchick who hides all his money in a hole and refuses to help bail the EBT out of financial collapse" has got to stop. The Kovalchicks have done more than their part to keep the EBT on its feet over the past 45 years, and without them the railroad would probably have faded into history a long time ago. But it is unrealistic to expect the railroad to survive, let alone prosper, on their meager income forever. As much money as the Kovalchicks have, the EBT needs more - lots more - if it expects to survive in its present state into the forseeable future. The FEBT also plays an important role maintaining the equipment and buildings in the Rockhill yard... the EBT just doesn't have the manpower to do all the work on its own.
 
Here is a very thorough, well-written article from a few years ago that should explain the whole EBT situation in detail, much better than I can in a single post: http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20020630ebt4.asp
 
Just my thoughts,
Chris


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PennRailVideos
Former Member
Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
 
« Reply #41 on: Aug 17th, 2007, 5:04pm »
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Chris, why I would take a silly little post personally? You know me better than that.
 
Anyway, the article really does sum-up the situation. Though I didn't think what I said was true, that was all I heard. Thanks for clearing things up Chris, now I know who and what to believe.
 
- Adam


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NHIWW
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
 
« Reply #42 on: Aug 18th, 2007, 8:10am »
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You know, why would anyone blame them for not wanting to sell out for 2 million when the proptery ALONE is worth more....hell, the engines are worth more by themselves.
 
The misguided attemps by several state and local officials are nice, but seriously...look at what the W&W just embarked on....they have 10 miles of ROW....of which about 4 needed complete rebuild work...the remaining needed repairs...total cost, over 9 million.
 
Do they honestly think 1 million is going to make a dent in the EBT?
 
Track alone could suck up that cool million in a heartbeat....not to mention stabalization of the equipment.
 
Any serious offers would have to come from operators like the ones running D&S/GSMR. If they are not knocking on the door, there is your proof there is no real intrest in the RR.
 
I would honestly say, most of these offers are in fact geared at stealing the property from Kovalchick and selling it off for mega profit. I don't blame them one bit for refusing. At the same time I applaud him for keeping the place going, and the FEBT for doing their part in that daily process.  
 
You have to realize, when a "for profit", such as the EBT is, allows volunteers to work on it's property, there are HUGE liability issues....and not just from those doing the work. I can fully understand his apprehention to allowing them to do anything to the property. Same reason SRR or NH&I never allowed volunteers doing work to the physical plant (equipment or ROW)
 
Again, with the BR&W, I give the owners and the Trust all the credit for starting some sort of relationship...but at the same time, much like the EBT, this is a sure sign that things are about to hit bottom and the owners point of view is; "well, if something happens, we shut down, sell and break even hopefully...not a major loss"
 
And thats exactly true when the operations are making such meager profits or non at all.


« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2007, 8:14am by NHIWW » Logged


Cumbres and Toltec fan
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
 
« Reply #43 on: Aug 19th, 2007, 8:57am »
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on Aug 18th, 2007, 8:10am, NHIWW wrote:       (Click here for original message)
You have to realize, when a "for profit", such as the EBT is, allows volunteers to work on it's property, there are HUGE liability issues....and not just from those doing the work. I can fully understand his apprehention to allowing them to do anything to the property. Same reason SRR or NH&I never allowed volunteers doing work to the physical plant (equipment or ROW)
 

 
One of the downsides of a railroad using volunteers instead of paid crews to run their trains.  There are a lot of out-of-pocket expenses for someone who volunteers at the BR&W.  The only "compensation" being the satisfaction of helping run their trains.  Worth it to me, though, when 60 comes back.  But railroads like the NH&I and SRR pay their crews for their time, which IMO adds a little something to the experience for both sides.


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"Buy me a ticket on the last train home tonight."
Anthony_SRR
Former Member
Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
 
« Reply #44 on: Aug 19th, 2007, 5:29pm »
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But I would say most people probably like volunteering and doing something. For me I would just love to be able to say “Hey I helped get that thing to run under of steam or I helped get that coach on the road” But it is a whole different thing from SRR 0r NHI
 
Anthony


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farok
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
 
« Reply #45 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 1:26am »
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Allow me to play Devil's advocate.  I think it all comes down to money.  I believe the historical trust is doing what they can given their resources.  The BRW itself I assume just doesn't have the income to do more.  Running a shortline is definitely not cheap.
 
Regarding Lambertville (and for a financial perspective), assume you had to do nothing but replace ties to put the line in service.  Class 1 requires 1 in 5 ties to be good.  At $75/tie, 400 ties/mile, 7 miles, reopening the Lambertville line would cost $210,000.  This doesn't take into account bridge repair, roadbed repair (of which there is a significant amount needed in Lambertville, and filling I believe at least one minor washout.  For a line that would generate maybe 2-3 cars per month in freight to the lumber yard, and little passenger revenue (remember they sold tickets from a card table, and didn't fill the 4666 when it was running), it doesn't make economic sense.  I just don't expect to see it any time soon without a major influx of money.  Of course, if you could advertise through service between Lambertville and Flemington, I think you could have a good product there, but you would probably want class 2 or better track so it wouldn't take over an hour in transit.  But to do this, you are talking significantly more money, not just to the Lambertville line, but also the Flemington line, additional rolling stock (and rolling stock that would be more suited to the antique collector type that now frequent Lambertville), etc.
 
Please don't misunderstand me -- I would LOVE to see the Lambertville end re-opened!  I'm just trying to offer some ideas of the kinds of money it takes to really rehabilitate a line.  Someone mentioned $9MM for another line -- doesn't surprise me one bit.  Take into consideration the little traffic that we see currently and some of the other necessary projects -- such as bridge repair and crossing replacement -- that are required and being done on the northern end of the line, and it starts to make sense why other things are waiting.
 
There was a comment about the line not being up to FRA spec.  I highly doubt this as well.  There are weekly track inspections and bad sections are being repaired.  If there were issues with the track, we wouldn't be seeing passenger operations today.  Do you think the FRA would pass up an opportunity to cite violations and collect money?  I highly doubt it -- that's what they are paid for.  I realize the inspections are not FRA personnel, though believe me the FRA does keep tabs on what is going on.
 
My biggest fear for the BRW is that there is so little to work with, there may not be enough left to generate the revenue to really start a come-back.  I truly hope I'm wrong!  Some of the tentative plans I've heard from both the trust and BRW would definitely prove me wrong.  Time will tell, my fingers are crossed.
 
One last note about the Bel-Del.  The two operations are definitely through an agreement beneficial to both sides.  As noted before, why would improvements be made to extend the line (and therefore have a larger section of line for BRW to insure for passenger service) if there wasn't a benefit to both sides?  BRW has put up some of the money as well, as the track work done through the NYSWTHS.  Regarding the funding up on the Bel-Del as opposed to BRW, I believe funding was at least in-part location-based, and so BRW was not even a potential benefactor.


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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #46 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 1:54am »
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Here IS PROOF that stuff IS ACTUALLY BEING DONE.
 
a backhoe is on a flatbed track probably to spread ballast.


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/BRW/Picture_or_Video_252-2.jpg
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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #47 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 1:58am »
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New rails are waiting in Ringoes.

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #48 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 2:00am »
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NEW TIES Waiting to be installed.

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #49 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 2:04am »
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Railtruck used to put new track and ties in.

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #50 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 8:40am »
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This was part of an older switch probaby from Lambertville or Ringoes that was REPLACED

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #51 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 8:41am »
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the older ties gathered from TRACK REPAIRS.

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #52 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 8:43am »
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Part of an old Switch throw that is going to be USED ELSEWHERE

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #53 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 8:45am »
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The track by #60 was being REPAIRED.

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #54 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 8:47am »
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This shows the BRW actually DUG UP SOME DIRT to REPAIR The track 60 is going to driven out. (not pulled out by 752)

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #55 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 8:49am »
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this shows where they stopped and i was actually surprised they were doing WORK on that specific track.

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #56 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 8:53am »
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The BRW replaced a bolt on part of their switches.

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
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« Reply #57 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 8:54am »
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Two more of those plastic ties WERE ADDED TO THE MAIN.

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Black_River_Joe
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
 
« Reply #58 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 9:46am »
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Now i know that all this stuff isnt that great, but it does PROVE the BRW/BRRHT IS DOING STUFF.

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NHIWW
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Re: What do you think of the BR&W?
 
« Reply #59 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 12:49pm »
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YOU DON'T NEED TO SHOUT OUT YOUR POINTS.....
 
It's good when they're doing something, but it mearly is band-aiding the ROW.
 
As stated, they need a large influx of cash. It is a shame New Jersey doesn't have the grant programs for Short Lines like Pennsylvania does.
 
Yes, the Lambertville-Flemington operation would be good, but as stated, the track would have to be good for at least 25mph straigh through..
 
Even if they were able to rebuild the ROW into Lambertville, they never would get the ridership from the town...its not going to work when you can walk across the river and ride behind steam on the NH&I, and in...dare I say...better looking equipment.
 
The Lambertville section would be good for the dinner trains they ran in years past (behind steam) and for full line length Fall Foliage trips, like NH&I does.... Otherwise, if there is no freight, there would be little need for rail service.


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