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Black River Railroad Historical Trust
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maps53
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #20 on: Sep 20th, 2007, 6:53pm »
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I think we should get off the little crane subject. The man who took on the project is a serious speeder fan. I am very sure he and his dad have donated all the materials.

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de-rail
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #21 on: Sep 20th, 2007, 8:36pm »
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on Sep 20th, 2007, 6:53pm, maps53 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I think we should get off the little crane subject. The man who took on the project is a serious speeder fan. I am very sure he and his dad have donated all the materials.

That puts my mind at ease. I think it is safe to say there was no wasted time or money on this project.


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brw60

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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #22 on: Sep 20th, 2007, 10:08pm »
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on Sep 20th, 2007, 6:13pm, Anthony_SRR wrote:       (Click here for original message)
That thing, why would they waste time on that when  other things need to be done like paint the bishop.( I saw that one up close and it looks pretty bad) What on earth are they going to do with that once it is running? it is great to see they are doing something but of all things.
 
Anthony

 
Great!  Be in Ringoes at 7am on Sunday and we'll start sanding the Bishop for a coat of paint...
 
But seriously, we need people, with ambition, know-how (or eagerness to learn) to come out and help.  No reason the place can't get turned around.
 
The fairmount crane was picked as a project because someone stepped forward with ambition, know-how, and a plan.  We gave him a budget of $550.00 to complete the project. To Date, less than $200 has been spent.  
 
If someone steps forward with a legitamate plan to do something, serious can-do attitude, and the man power to do it, I will get the plan approved AND make sure the proper funding is in place to start the project.  It's that simple.


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Black_River_Joe
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #23 on: Sep 21st, 2007, 6:21am »
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on Sep 20th, 2007, 10:08pm, brw60 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Great!  Be in Ringoes at 7am on Sunday and we'll start sanding the Bishop for a coat of paint...
 
But seriously, we need people, with ambition, know-how (or eagerness to learn) to come out and help.  No reason the place can't get turned around.
 
The fairmount crane was picked as a project because someone stepped forward with ambition, know-how, and a plan.  We gave him a budget of $550.00 to complete the project. To Date, less than $200 has been spent.  
 
If someone steps forward with a legitamate plan to do something, serious can-do attitude, and the man power to do it, I will get the plan approved AND make sure the proper funding is in place to start the project.  It's that simple.

 
Ok I will be ready to sand  


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Anthony_SRR
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #24 on: Sep 21st, 2007, 11:01am »
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I would as well but I have things to do at my own museum on Long Island. But I did not relize a private person was doing this. I thought it was a project like No.60.
 
Anthony


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farok
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #25 on: Sep 23rd, 2007, 12:12am »
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on Sep 20th, 2007, 4:27pm, 3-chime wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
You're exactly right.  The train looks...no, is, a rolling junk yard on rails, and they're working on a speeder??  [b][/b]Why?  Does the BRRHT even have a clue?  Don't mean to sound harsh, but we all care about the RR, and want to see the time invested where it matters most; I know I do anyway...

 
No offense meant, and I'm sorry if this comes across harsh, but can we all consider stopping senseless posts like this?  This isn't directly to 3-chime, but to everyone.  There have been FOUR pages (that's nearly 80 individual posts) posted in the "what do you think" thread (not counting other threads), most about how everyone hates what the BRW has become, that they want to see it improved, and yet there is almost nobody volunteering time to help change the state of things.  If anyone missed it and wants to complain, just go look there and revive that thread.
 
Seriously, as brw60 notes, if you have a well-laid-out plan and are committed to following through, the trust has shown it will do all in its power to get the resources to complete that plan.  I personally would like to help, and am trying to get involved in another small project to at least see some progress and hopefully generate more momentum, but it's tough when you end up on train crew nearly every week just to keep the trains running (another problem altogether, affecting many of us).  We really need serious plans for improvement, not more whining.
 
And while the Fairmont crane isn't necessarily something that will benefit the railroad much, it at least shows that someone was willing to step up and get something done.  I give everyone working on that project a lot of credit, since when done, that's the first restoration job the trust will have completed.  Nothing major, but a definite first step and building block, which isn't bad for an organization still just getting its feet off the ground.  Wasted time?  I think not.  Start small, grow from there.  Also, I realize not everyone will have time to commit, but I find it hard to believe that those working on the crane are the only ones with any time to commit across both the trust and all the people on this board who wish for change.
 
In the end, remember that the railroad will not be changed overnight, especially when the equipment, motive power, buildings, and right-of-way are owned by a for-profit corporation (not the trust).  That's not to say the trust can't get involved -- and I think it's great that they are trying to be involved -- but the railroad is ultimately responsible for all these things as they pertain to passenger operations.  As a volunteer, it's tough to listen to people bash the railroad, then blame the trust (directly or indirectly), a VOLUNTEER organization, for what are ultimately the railroad's concerns (and many are high $$ concerns at that).  Believe me, I want to see them changed as much as anyone, whether it is by the railroad, the trust, or whatever.  But without BRW, the trust would still exist and could still carry out its mission, which is NOT to run BRW passenger trains, though believe me that is the LAST thing ANY of us want to see.
 
Interestingly, if it wasn't for the trust, there may not be any passenger trains left today, which again, I think is great for a volunteer organization that didn't even exist two years ago.  Sure the trains aren't great, and they definitely need a lot of work, but the fact that trains are still running is also a stepping stone.  Things may appear to not be happening, though there are definitely things going on behind the scenes!  What is needed now are some time and some people who can help make more of a difference, whether it is with project execution, fund raising to help with or possibly farm out projects, or even crewing trains to allow others the freedom to participate in projects.  A volunteer organization is only as good as its volunteers.
 
OK... end rant.


« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2007, 12:44am by farok » Logged
WM734
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #26 on: Sep 23rd, 2007, 3:24pm »
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on Sep 23rd, 2007, 12:12am, farok wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
No offense meant, and I'm sorry if this comes across harsh, but can we all consider stopping senseless posts like this?  This isn't directly to 3-chime, but to everyone.  There have been FOUR pages (that's nearly 80 individual posts) posted in the "what do you think" thread (not counting other threads), most about how everyone hates what the BRW has become, that they want to see it improved, and yet there is almost nobody volunteering time to help change the state of things.  If anyone missed it and wants to complain, just go look there and revive that thread.
 
Seriously, as brw60 notes, if you have a well-laid-out plan and are committed to following through, the trust has shown it will do all in its power to get the resources to complete that plan.  I personally would like to help, and am trying to get involved in another small project to at least see some progress and hopefully generate more momentum, but it's tough when you end up on train crew nearly every week just to keep the trains running (another problem altogether, affecting many of us).  We really need serious plans for improvement, not more whining.
 
And while the Fairmont crane isn't necessarily something that will benefit the railroad much, it at least shows that someone was willing to step up and get something done.  I give everyone working on that project a lot of credit, since when done, that's the first restoration job the trust will have completed.  Nothing major, but a definite first step and building block, which isn't bad for an organization still just getting its feet off the ground.  Wasted time?  I think not.  Start small, grow from there.  Also, I realize not everyone will have time to commit, but I find it hard to believe that those working on the crane are the only ones with any time to commit across both the trust and all the people on this board who wish for change.
 
In the end, remember that the railroad will not be changed overnight, especially when the equipment, motive power, buildings, and right-of-way are owned by a for-profit corporation (not the trust).  That's not to say the trust can't get involved -- and I think it's great that they are trying to be involved -- but the railroad is ultimately responsible for all these things as they pertain to passenger operations.  As a volunteer, it's tough to listen to people bash the railroad, then blame the trust (directly or indirectly), a VOLUNTEER organization, for what are ultimately the railroad's concerns (and many are high $$ concerns at that).  Believe me, I want to see them changed as much as anyone, whether it is by the railroad, the trust, or whatever.  But without BRW, the trust would still exist and could still carry out its mission, which is NOT to run BRW passenger trains, though believe me that is the LAST thing ANY of us want to see.
 
Interestingly, if it wasn't for the trust, there may not be any passenger trains left today, which again, I think is great for a volunteer organization that didn't even exist two years ago.  Sure the trains aren't great, and they definitely need a lot of work, but the fact that trains are still running is also a stepping stone.  Things may appear to not be happening, though there are definitely things going on behind the scenes!  What is needed now are some time and some people who can help make more of a difference, whether it is with project execution, fund raising to help with or possibly farm out projects, or even crewing trains to allow others the freedom to participate in projects.  A volunteer organization is only as good as its volunteers.
 
OK... end rant.

Not for nothing, but saying the people who complain "almost never volunteer time to help change the state of things" is a rather bold statement... folks like 3-chime and myself who are flat out stating the facts of the matter are people who have put many hours into the railroad.  I love the BR&W as much as the next guy (why do you think I spend countless hours trying to learn about restoring 60) and want to see it the way it used to be...but there's a point where one has to look around them and see all the other comparable places who have the same resources and amount of potential as BR&W, that do well.  I only hope managment will listen to the trust and actually make it worth while, not use the volunteers as a way to do the managment's jobs for them.


« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2007, 3:49pm by wm734_fan » Logged
farok
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #27 on: Sep 23rd, 2007, 10:28pm »
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on Sep 23rd, 2007, 3:24pm, WM734 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Not for nothing, but saying the people who complain "almost never volunteer time to help change the state of things" is a rather bold statement... folks like 3-chime and myself who are flat out stating the facts of the matter are people who have put many hours into the railroad.  I love the BR&W as much as the next guy (why do you think I spend countless hours trying to learn about restoring 60) and want to see it the way it used to be...

 
Understood.  The few who put time in are really appreciated, and I'm convinced those who do put in time are the reason the railroad is still operating passenger service.  Thank you.
 
Unfortunately, there are many more complaints that just don't stop, and it gets old real fast.  I guess in retrospect my real gripes are with human capital and management, and the complaints just remind me of this and get me depressed about the place.  It's frustrating to no end and make me want to stop doing anything for the railroad altogether, so I try not to dwell on these things, which is what probably fueled my last response.  To all those helping out, again I'm sorry.
 
Since there's not much we can do to change management, what as volunteers CAN we do?  I believe the volunteer crew roster is (or was recently) at least 60 or 70 members.  If everyone committed one day a month at the railroad, which isn't asking much from an organization that they supposedly want to be a part of, all trains would be fully crewed and then some, which is priority number one.  If we have people committing two, three, or even four days a month now, that shows how many volunteers won't (or can't) put time in.  On top of that, with everyone putting in one day a month, people wouldn't get burned out, and even better yet you'd have quite a few extra people to do other jobs, whether it is restorations, student positions, public awareness, clean-up, fund raisers, or whatever.  Back in the day, there was a monthly schedule, and there were no problems with people committing this little bit of time.  If once a month is too much, I wonder if committing one day every two months should be a requirement.  There will always be people willing to put more time in (I'm one of 'em), and so I still think we'd be better off than now.
 
I'm curious what others think.  I realize there are many other issues with forcing time, but if we don't do something, things look like things will never change (or take a lifetime to change).  I just don't know what else we can do...
 
on Sep 23rd, 2007, 3:24pm, WM734 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

but there's a point where one has to look around them and see all the other comparable places who have the same resources and amount of potential as BR&W, that do well.  I only hope managment will listen to the trust and actually make it worth while, not use the volunteers as a way to do the managment's jobs for them.

 
Point well taken, and I agree here 100%!  Again, I think change comes down to a combination of the volunteers and interest from management -- you really need both to do well.  Lack of interest by railroad management, which we can't change, destroys morale so much it's incredible.


« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2007, 10:33pm by farok » Logged
WM734
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #28 on: Sep 25th, 2007, 7:22am »
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No apology needed.  I have been guilty of a few complaints here and there...it truely does make me sad every time I visit the place...but I keep going back to learn so there's at least a slight chance it can turn around....sometime within a few years....

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maps53
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #29 on: Sep 25th, 2007, 8:43pm »
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I should hope no apology is needed. I assume those who wrote negative statements are volunteers who also staff the trains to keep them running and work the trust projects. About the comments made concerning the management --- It is amazing to me how BRW has survived the enormous changes in the economy. A small railroad like BRW obviously has to have very smart management to keep going. They do. Let's all enjoy it for as long as it can hang on and keep fighting the value of a hard earned dollar. Jim.

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WM734
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #30 on: Sep 26th, 2007, 7:25am »
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on Sep 25th, 2007, 8:43pm, maps53 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I should hope no apology is needed. I assume those who wrote negative statements are volunteers who also staff the trains to keep them running and work the trust projects.

...Yes.
 
Like I said before, if you look around at places besides Black River and the Bel Del, there are places with the same amount as potential as BRW that do well, and though it turns out to be a negative complaint, it is a fact.  Unless your definition of well is run down with a  posobility of cheap improvement that can truely make a large difference.....
 
Is it all their fault? Most definately not, but it can be argued that many things are.


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maps53
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #31 on: Sep 26th, 2007, 6:22pm »
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on Sep 26th, 2007, 7:25am, WM734 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

...Yes.
 
Like I said before, if you look around at places besides Black River and the Bel Del, there are places with the same amount as potential as BRW that do well, and though it turns out to be a negative complaint, it is a fact.  Unless your definition of well is run down with a  posobility of cheap improvement that can truely make a large difference.....
 
Is it all their fault? Most definately not, but it can be argued that many things are.
Why did you include Bel Del in this? Jim.


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brw60

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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #32 on: Sep 26th, 2007, 8:00pm »
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on Sep 26th, 2007, 7:25am, WM734 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

...Yes.
 
Like I said before, if you look around at places besides Black River and the Bel Del, there are places with the same amount as potential as BRW that do well, and though it turns out to be a negative complaint, it is a fact.  Unless your definition of well is run down with a  posobility of cheap improvement that can truely make a large difference.....
 
Is it all their fault? Most definately not, but it can be argued that many things are.

Black River definately has potential. (Leave Bel-Del out of this). Come up with 10 things that could be done to improve the place (current operation) and we'll go from there.  
 
I heard the engine house will (might) be painted this fall -- that will do wonders for the property.  Hopefully we could build upon there.
 
Work contuines on the Fairmount Crane -- FYI is one of the only peices of equipment purchased new by the Black River & Western Railroad
 
Progress on the Mack should step up this fall -- the first BRW locomtive to haul a train on the PRR Flemington Branch.
 
We plan on starting work on the 420 this fall -- it'll be nice to have a museum set up so folks will have something to do in Ringoes.
 
Once those projects are complete, we might have the 1009 in Ringoes and work could start on that.  OR we could start on a Lackawanna Car.
 
We need money to fund the 420, 1009, and Lackawanna Cars.  Any grantwriters or donors willing to help out?  Do you know any grantwriters or donors willing to help out? We are a 501(c)(3) organization.


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Black_River_Joe
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #33 on: Sep 27th, 2007, 6:06am »
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Brw60: I would be interested in doing the lackawanna coaches after the fairmont crane is completed.  Also what is the 1009?

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de-rail
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #34 on: Sep 27th, 2007, 3:25pm »
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on Sep 27th, 2007, 6:06am, brw_60_752 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Brw60: I would be interested in doing the lackawanna coaches after the fairmont crane is completed.  Also what is the 1009?

 
The 1009 was an ex-CNJ coach that has been stored on the Bel-Del for many years. How ever in a (October) 2005 issue of Railpace it has a photo of the 1009 on the rear of a freight train, simply put I don't think it there any more, I think it might have been scraped(?), can some shed some light on this?


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Black_River_Joe
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #35 on: Sep 27th, 2007, 6:22pm »
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on Sep 27th, 2007, 3:25pm, S.G.P. wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
The 1009 was an ex-CNJ coach that has been stored on the Bel-Del for many years. How ever in a (October) 2005 issue of Railpace it has a photo of the 1009 on the rear of a freight train, simply put I don't think it there any more, I think it might have been scraped(?), can some shed some light on this?

 
Thats why i dont know what it is. Its on the bel-del and I have never been there so that is why. thanks SGP


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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #36 on: Sep 27th, 2007, 9:19pm »
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on Sep 27th, 2007, 3:25pm, S.G.P. wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
The 1009 was an ex-CNJ coach that has been stored on the Bel-Del for many years. How ever in a (October) 2005 issue of Railpace it has a photo of the 1009 on the rear of a freight train, simply put I don't think it there any more, I think it might have been scraped(?), can some shed some light on this?

 
Yes, the car was moved to Bel-Del, and No, it has not been scrapped.  It is owned by the BRRHT, but due to logistical issues with NS, it was only moved as far as Phillipsburg (not Ringoes as orginally inteded).  We are working to get the car moved to Ringoes for proper storage and restoration.
 
As for the Lackawanna cars, they are definately on the list, probably will happen after the 420.


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de-rail
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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #37 on: Sep 27th, 2007, 9:33pm »
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on Sep 27th, 2007, 9:19pm, brw60 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Yes, the car was moved to Bel-Del, and No, it has not been scrapped.  It is owned by the BRRHT, but due to logistical issues with NS, it was only moved as far as Phillipsburg (not Ringoes as orginally inteded).  We are working to get the car moved to Ringoes for proper storage and restoration.
 
As for the Lackawanna cars, they are definately on the list, probably will happen after the 420.

 
Thank you for clearing that up. So the BRRHT owns it, how many CNJ cars is that know, think it is enough to make a full train .  If it were brought to ringoes the BRRHT would not have to pay rent or anything for? What is the agreement with BRRHT owned rolling stock in ringoes?


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brw60

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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #38 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 8:27pm »
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on Sep 27th, 2007, 9:33pm, S.G.P. wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Thank you for clearing that up. So the BRRHT owns it, how many CNJ cars is that know, think it is enough to make a full train .  If it were brought to ringoes the BRRHT would not have to pay rent or anything for? What is the agreement with BRRHT owned rolling stock in ringoes?

 
We don't have a formal agreement in place as of yet...but from what I understand it'll be "token" rent ($1 / year or something like that)


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Re: Black River Railroad Historical Trust
 
« Reply #39 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 10:22pm »
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on Sep 26th, 2007, 8:00pm, brw60 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

Black River definately has potential. (Leave Bel-Del out of this). Come up with 10 things that could be done to improve the place (current operation) and we'll go from there.  

 
One thing that I think would improve the current operation would be to bring in "new blood" to serve on the BRRHT Board of Directors.  Trust members have the opportunity to run for the BoD and/or vote for Board members.  We need people with fresh ideas - less of the same old same old - who'll take the ball and run with it.  That's it in a nutshell...


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