Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Aug 20th, 2017, 4:59pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


BRW Questions and Answers
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Tourist Railroads and Museums
   Black River & Western
(Moderators: brw60, J. M. Fusco, strasburg90)
   BRW Questions and Answers
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: BRW Questions and Answers  (Read 2043 times)
hummel1237
Historian
Posts: 4885
BRW Questions and Answers
  beldel142g.jpg - 44626 Bytes
« on: Jul 2nd, 2004, 2:45pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Ask about anything to do with the Black River and Western...
 
Here's one;
 
Do you guys think "The Bel-Del" thread should be moved into this board or stay in General Tourist? I wouldn't care if it was moved in here but does it belong here? I know they own and operate it so...  
 
Jim...  
 
Here's the tickets they sold me to ride #142...


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/BRW/beldel142g.jpg
Click Image to Resize

Logged
J. M. Fusco
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 4092
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #1 on: Jul 2nd, 2004, 3:12pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I really think it belongs here!

Logged
Southern Green
Historian
Posts: 3475
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #2 on: Jul 2nd, 2004, 7:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

 Yeah thad be fine if it was moved here!  Is the flemington - ringoes trip good?  Im planning on doing in Saturday the 17th.
           Cy


Logged

Go Braves!






brw60

Posts: 47
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #3 on: Jul 2nd, 2004, 8:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Do you want my biased opinion?      It's worth the trip to come down.  If you can, try to make Railroad Days on August 21 and 22, we are going to have ALOT of things going on in Ringoes.
 
-Dan


Logged
Southern Green
Historian
Posts: 3475
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #4 on: Jul 2nd, 2004, 10:33pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

  I wish I could.     Im from NC and im coming up to that area for a week of all railroad related stuff.
            Cy


Logged

Go Braves!






RDG484
Former Member
Question about 4666
 
« Reply #5 on: Aug 20th, 2004, 8:15am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Any word on when this Doodlebug will cruise the BR&W rails again?  I miss the days of driving to Lambertville and riding it to Ringoes on Sundays and riding it with the ex-CNJ cab car from Ringoes to Flemington on weekdays.  No. 4662 on the W&W isn't quite the same.
 
Thanks in advance.


Logged
Andy_S
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 345
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #6 on: Aug 7th, 2009, 5:23pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Well, it's about 5 years since this thread was spun, so here is a question:
 
Just north of Lambertville above US 202 there is a quarry that had rail service, but did the BR&W ever provide it or the Bel-Del?  Or both?  The tracks cross(ed) the Delaware and Raritan canal on a trestle and head south.
 
The reason I ask is that I passed there this afternoon southbound on Route 29.  There is still a round RR XING sign in place, and in good condition, too.  Not only that, but the RR XING on the asphalt seems to only have been recently ground out.  Yahoo maps still shows it nice and white.
 
I posted this on the BR&W site first, since they were the most recent operation in the area.


Logged
pennsy643

View Profile  

Posts: 89
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #7 on: Aug 10th, 2009, 9:00am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

The Bel-Del, while under PRR and later PC ownership, served this this quarry, which is/was part of NJ Trap Rock Industries..  With the southern part of the Bel-Del not being included in Conrail, the BR&W acquired the Lambertville area portion of the Bel-Del including the ROW as far north as the quarry with the intent to provide them service.  The quarry spur bridge over the canal was repaired.  As it turned out the BR&W only saw a limited amount of stone traffic from the quarry.  I remember at least a few cuts of stone hoppers making the Lambertville-Ringoes-Flemington-Three Bridges trip.  I THINK the stone was going to Amtrak for a NEC reballast project.  I believe this was taking place during the early 1980's.  Ex-CNJ Alco RS-3 1554 provided the power.  I believe this was last of the stone traffic hauled out by the BR&W.
 
As a side note NJ Trap Rock had a small 4-wheel Davenport diesel switcher at this quarry back in the PRR/PC days of the Bel-Del.  When the BR&W took over they got the Davenport out of quarry, painted it BR&W green, lettered it as BR&W 50, and tried using it in MOW service.  It had a CAT bulldozer engine and a manual tranmission and clutch.  I believe it never worked that well in MOW service and it spent most of time stored in Ringoes, later in Lambertville.
 
Regards,
Jim Robinson


Logged
Andy_S
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 345
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #8 on: Aug 11th, 2009, 10:29am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Thanks, Jim.  That was a well detailed answer.  I may grab a few photos next time I am up that way.

Logged
de-rail
Historian
Posts: 2104
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #9 on: Aug 11th, 2009, 3:35pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Jim, that was a very informative and intriguing post. I would like to add that not long before the track to Lambertville was taken out of service the track leading to the quarry received some rehabilitation for a return of service to the quarry, need less to say freight service did not return to the quarry and the track was taken out of service.

Logged

"We do not ride on the railroad; the railroad rides upon us." - Henry David Thoreau.

Hudson Revival Project's Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hudson-Revival-Project/151566048238757
PRR4811
Chaser
View Profile  

Posts: 53
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #10 on: Aug 26th, 2009, 10:22pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Aug 10th, 2009, 9:00am, pennsy643 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The Bel-Del, while under PRR and later PC ownership, served this this quarry, which is/was part of NJ Trap Rock Industries..  With the southern part of the Bel-Del not being included in Conrail, the BR&W acquired the Lambertville area portion of the Bel-Del including the ROW as far north as the quarry with the intent to provide them service.  The quarry spur bridge over the canal was repaired.  As it turned out the BR&W only saw a limited amount of stone traffic from the quarry.  I remember at least a few cuts of stone hoppers making the Lambertville-Ringoes-Flemington-Three Bridges trip.  I THINK the stone was going to Amtrak for a NEC reballast project.  I believe this was taking place during the early 1980's.  Ex-CNJ Alco RS-3 1554 provided the power.  I believe this was last of the stone traffic hauled out by the BR&W.
 
As a side note NJ Trap Rock had a small 4-wheel Davenport diesel switcher at this quarry back in the PRR/PC days of the Bel-Del.  When the BR&W took over they got the Davenport out of quarry, painted it BR&W green, lettered it as BR&W 50, and tried using it in MOW service.  It had a CAT bulldozer engine and a manual tranmission and clutch.  I believe it never worked that well in MOW service and it spent most of time stored in Ringoes, later in Lambertville.
 
Regards,
Jim Robinson

 
In 1979(?) a non-BRW contractor working to dismantle the non-BRW owned section of the Bel-Del south of Lambertville ran the Davenport south from Lambertville yard to pickup some gondolas of rail.  He was heading north when the PRR 4666 Doodlebug crew (moving southbound to the wing dam) noticed #50's exhaust smoke south of their position, around the bend by the wing dam. #50 was heading north and the numbskull contractor bailed out of the loco as he did not know how to use the brakes. Try as they might the 4666 crew was unable to prevent a very minor head-on. No damage occurred as it was just a "hard coupling" bump. The 4666 crew took charge of the situation and sidelined the errant 50 and gondolas. The 50 operator was tyring to do a favor for his boss and never thought the 4666 would be running on timetable authority that day.


« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2009, 10:24pm by PRR4811 » Logged
EastonRailGuy
Chaser
Posts: 67
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #11 on: Aug 28th, 2009, 6:08pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Wow, that's a story I never heard... why would anyone try to just blindly operate a locomotive, no matter how small!
 
Anyway, I knew the railraod had that little Davenport switcher, although I don't remember ever seeing it. I have a pic that I found on the internet of it at Ringoes as late as 1989. Where is the little loco today?
 
Speaking of BRWRR locomotives, does anybody have a locomotive roster for the railroad throughout its history? There has been an interesting assortment of motive power on the line over its time as a tourist railroad, which is interesting in its own right, and I think it be a great little shortline to model in HO scale.
 
So what locomotives did the railroad own when? I believe the tourist railroad operation started in 1961?


« Last Edit: Aug 28th, 2009, 6:09pm by EastonRailGuy » Logged
Black_River_Joe
Historian
Posts: 830
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #12 on: Aug 30th, 2009, 7:07am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I will list off a few....if something is wrong please correct me..or add something if I didnt....
 
This is a list of what I know from 1965 to present
 
 
1-Mack Switcher
14- 0-6-0 Switcher
41- Ex ATSF CF-7
42- Ex ATSF CF-7
50- Davenport Switcher
56- Alco T-6
57- Alco RS-1
58- Alco RS-1
59- Alco RS-1
60- Alco 2-8-0
148- 2-6-4 ?
211- RS-1 (possibly #58 )
565- EX DL&W 2-6-0
752- EX Northern Pacific/Burlington Northern/Claredon & Pittsford GP-9
780- EX Amtrak MOW GP-9
782- EX Amtrak MOW GP-9 (now used for parts)
1202- EX New Haven/Penn Central/Conrail/ Reading & Northern SW1200
8159- EX Canadian Pacific SW1200
8142- EX Canadian Pacific SW1200
9581- EX Norfolk Southern SD-9
566- EX Conrail GP-10
55- Brill Delaware Turtle
4666- Ex PRR Doodlebug
112- Ex Lehigh Valley SW-1 (still in tennessee)
1848- Ex Green Mountain GP-9
1849- Ex Green Mountain GP-9
1850- Ex Green Mountain GP-9
1853- Ex TexMex GP-9
1854- EX Pennsylvania Railroad GP-9
1523- Ex Central Railroad of New Jersey GP-9 (URHS)
416- EX New Jersey Transit F7 (URHS)
833- EX Erie E-8 (New York and Greenwood Lake)
412- EX Baltimore and Ohio VO-1000 (URHS)
18- Morristown and Erie C424 (Visiting)
1554- Ex Central Railroad of New Jersey RS-3 (URHS)
 
I believe that is all I can remember... But dont forget, anything conrail or NS is accepted because they interchange in Three Bridges NJ.
 
 


« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2009, 7:09am by Black_River_Joe » Logged

Help!!! Restore the BRW equipment by joining the Black River Historical Trust. www.brrht.org

Currently working on CNJ 1009 coach.
CR_North_Jersey
Chaser
Posts: 66
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #13 on: Aug 30th, 2009, 11:23am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Aug 30th, 2009, 7:07am, brw_60_752 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I will list off a few....if something is wrong please correct me..or add something if I didnt....
 
This is a list of what I know from 1965 to present
 
 
1-Mack Switcher
14- 0-6-0 Switcher
41- Ex ATSF CF-7
42- Ex ATSF CF-7
50- Davenport Switcher
56- Alco T-6
57- Alco RS-1
58- Alco RS-1
59- Alco RS-1
60- Alco 2-8-0
148- 2-6-4 ?
211- RS-1 (possibly #58 )
565- EX DL&W 2-6-0
752- EX Northern Pacific/Burlington Northern/Claredon & Pittsford GP-9
780- EX Amtrak MOW GP-9
782- EX Amtrak MOW GP-9 (now used for parts)
1202- EX New Haven/Penn Central/Conrail/ Reading & Northern SW1200
8159- EX Canadian Pacific SW1200
8142- EX Canadian Pacific SW1200
9581- EX Norfolk Southern SD-9
566- EX Conrail GP-10
55- Brill Delaware Turtle
4666- Ex PRR Doodlebug
112- Ex Lehigh Valley SW-1 (still in tennessee)
1848- Ex Green Mountain GP-9
1849- Ex Green Mountain GP-9
1850- Ex Green Mountain GP-9
1853- Ex TexMex GP-9
1854- EX Pennsylvania Railroad GP-9
1523- Ex Central Railroad of New Jersey GP-9 (URHS)
416- EX New Jersey Transit F7 (URHS)
833- EX Erie E-8 (New York and Greenwood Lake)
412- EX Baltimore and Ohio VO-1000 (URHS)
18- Morristown and Erie C424 (Visiting)
1554- Ex Central Railroad of New Jersey RS-3 (URHS)
 
I believe that is all I can remember... But dont forget, anything conrail or NS is accepted because they interchange in Three Bridges NJ.
 
 

 
#148 was a 4-6-2
#211 was renumbered 58  
There were 2 #400's the first was a 65Ton and the second was a SW1
There was a 40Ton #7079
#566 is #1856 on paper
112, 1523, 418, 412, 18, 7000 (PRR), were never owned by the BRWRR
#1554 was part of a package from the CNJ to purchase the Central Branch in 1971
 


Logged

BR&W volunteer since 1997
BRRHT Treasurer since 2010
Man with no Name
Railfan
View Profile  

Posts: 223
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #14 on: Aug 30th, 2009, 9:24pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

What are the chances that the railroad will restore the track to Lambertville and resume service along that line?
 
I don't really know much about the BRW and I'm curious about it's history and where it's heading.


Logged

pennsy643

View Profile  

Posts: 89
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #15 on: Aug 31st, 2009, 8:52am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Aug 30th, 2009, 11:23am, CR_North_Jersey wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
#148 was a 4-6-2
#211 was renumbered 58  
There were 2 #400's the first was a 65Ton and the second was a SW1
There was a 40Ton #7079
#566 is #1856 on paper
112, 1523, 418, 412, 18, 7000 (PRR), were never owned by the BRWRR
#1554 was part of a package from the CNJ to purchase the Central Branch in 1971
 

 
A few minor points.
 
The 2 GE centercabs are mixed up.  
 
BR&W's "first #400" was a 44-tonner, ex-Long Island RR.  It went to the Valley RR. when the BR&W started hauling freight and needed more power for the run up from Lambertville.  It was replaced by "second #400", an EMD SW-1 bought from the Port Everglades Terminal RR in FL by then BR&W General Manager Sam Freeman (who also owned 4-6-2 steam loco 148 ).  
 
BR&W #7079 was the 65-tonner.  Ex-US Army, from the Picatinny Arsenal in North Jersey.  Actually the 7079 was property of the North Hunterdon High School's Votech Dept. (run by then BR&W president John Bishop) and was used for onsite trainning for diesel mechanics classes.  Before 4666 showed up, 7079 often handled the Lambertville excursion run with a single coach.
 
Also, Alco RS-1 #59 was never relettered as such.  It was never put into service and remained numbered it's former Devco Railway number, which was 204.  Sister 211 did get repainted into BR&W green (with the "disco stripe" lettering) and was renumbered 58.  58 was used only a short while.
 
CNJ RS-3 1554 did come as part of deal to operate freight service over the CNJ South Branch line between Flemington and the Tennaco and Visqueen plants on River Road.  But I believe this was more like 1974 if my memory is correct.  The deal called for the BR&W to repaint the 1554 into the CNJ red/white scheme (it arrived in plain CNJ green) which they did.  Eventually (1976??) the BR&W acquired the South Branch track past River Road to Three Bridges and the 1554, which was repainted to BR&W green (and later got the "disco stripe" lettering).
 
Regards,
Jim Robinson


« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2009, 3:46pm by pennsy643 » Logged
EastonRailGuy
Chaser
Posts: 67
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #16 on: Aug 31st, 2009, 3:16pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Thanks for all the great info!!!
 
I've sorta organized and rearranged the list, and tried to incorporate your notes and updates, including a few that I knew. If anyone can fill in the years the locomotives were at the BRWRR, that be great too! If there are other errors or additions, fill'em in!
 
STEAM
14- Porter 0-6-0, blt 1920, oil burner, ex Brooklyn East District Terminal RR, retired Oct. 25, 1963 from BEDT, then to MaPA, till 1965, at BRWRR 1965-1993, currently at Ulster & Delaware Railroad Historical Society in Arkville, NY since 1993
 
60- Alco 2-8-0, blt 1937, coal burner, ex Great Western RR, retired 1963
 
148- Alco 4-6-2, blt 1920, oil burner, ex Florida East Coast RR, never owned by BRWRR, currently in CO
 
565- Alco 2-6-0, blt 1908, coal burner, ex DL&W, sat out of service at New Hope, at Steamtown in parts?
 
RAILCARS:
55- Brill Delaware Turtle  
4666- Ex PRR Doodlebug  
 
CRITTERS AND INDUSTRIAL LOCOMOTIVES:
1- Mack Switcher
50- Davenport Switcher
400- GE 44 Ton, ex-Long Island RR
7079 - GE 65 ton, ex-US Army, Picatinny Arsenal
 
STANDARD DIESEL SWITCHERS
112- EMD SW1, ex Lehigh Valley SW-1 (still in tennessee)
400 - EMD SW1, ex Port Everglades Terminal RR  
1202- EMD SW1200, ex New Haven/Penn Central/Conrail/ Reading & Northern
8159- EMD SW1200, ex Canadian Pacific  
8142- EMD SW1200, ex Canadian Pacific
412- Baldwin VO-1000, ex Baltimore and Ohio (URHS)
 
 
DIESEL ROADSWITCHERS AND GENERAL PURPOSE UNITS:
41- EMD CF-7, Ex ATSF #2419 (painted green, eventually used for parts and scrapped)
42- EMD CF-7, Ex ATSF #2421 (painted yellow/blue, used until 199?)
56- Alco T-6  
57- Alco RS-1  
58- Alco RS-1 (repainted and used for short while, former number 211)  
59- Alco RS-1 (never repainted, remained number 204)
1554- Alco RS-3, Ex Central Railroad of New Jersey (URHS)  
752- EMD GP-9, ex Northern Pacific/Burlington Northern/Claredon & Pittsford
780- EMD GP-9, ex Amtrak MOW  
782- EMD GP-9, ex Amtrak MOW (now used for parts)  
1848- EMD GP-9, ex Green Mountain  
1849- EMD GP-9, ex Green Mountain  
1850- EMD GP-9, ex Green Mountain
1853- EMD GP-9, ex TexMex
1854- EMD GP-9, ex Pennsylvania Railroad
1523- EMD GP-9, ex Central Railroad of New Jersey (URHS)
9581- EMD SD-9, ex Norfolk Southern  
566- EMD GP-10, ex Conrail GP-10 (1856 on paper)
 
ROAD DIESEL LOCOMOTVES:
416- EMD F7, ex New Jersey Transit (URHS)  
833- EMD E8, ex Erie (New York and Greenwood Lake)  
18- GE C424, ex Morristown and Erie C424


Logged
PRR4811
Chaser
View Profile  

Posts: 53
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #17 on: Aug 31st, 2009, 10:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Some more data for your listing:
 
BRW 55 is a 1930 Edwards Motorcar manfactured for Sperry Rail Service as a detector car. If you look closely, and at the proper angle, under the green paint one can see the Sperry lettering.
 
Mack #1 is now owned by the Black River RR Historical Trust.
 
LV 112 is privately owned by PRR, LLC.
 
PRR 4666 is privately owned as is RS-1 #57.
 
Erie 433 arrived 04/06/07 and departed the property 7/25/07 after being restored to her original livery by Star Trak.


« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2009, 10:29pm by PRR4811 » Logged
PRR4811
Chaser
View Profile  

Posts: 53
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #18 on: Sep 2nd, 2009, 9:13pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

BRW leased fleet diesel locos are painted in black and white. Those not leased are in other colors such as red or green.

« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2009, 9:14pm by PRR4811 » Logged
PRR4811
Chaser
View Profile  

Posts: 53
Re: BRW Questions and Answers
 
« Reply #19 on: Sep 2nd, 2009, 9:17pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

BDRV 1856 is ex-NE Southern #566, ex-CR #7566, ex-PC #7311, nee-NYC #7311
 
BDRV 9581 is ex-NS #58, ex-SOU #202, nee Central of Georgia #202
 
NJT 418 is on the property at Ringoes, not the 416.


« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2009, 9:23pm by PRR4811 » Logged
Pages: 1 2  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »