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Montana Western is out!
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   Montana Western is out!
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   Author  Topic: Montana Western is out!  (Read 4961 times)
Conway
TRAINing
Posts: 7
It's really over with MWRR is out, BNSF is in!
 
« Reply #40 on: Aug 9th, 2003, 10:09am »
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Yesterday was the their last run from Butte to Garrison.  We ran with them both ways and got some great shots.  They picked up a BNSF GP38 at Garrison and brought it back to Butte Yard.  There is also 3 other EMDs with strange paint in the yard today. A BN green GP40, a SF yellow GP60, and a BNSF GP50.  BNSF officially takes over Sunday morning 8-10-03 at 12:30am.  The MWRR and RARW engines will be taken to Anaconda for storage. I guess this it everybody, I hope it's all up from here with BNSF. Who knows what the future will be?  
 
Thankyou and Best of Luck in finding your Happiness!
 
Brandon


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Conway
TRAINing
Posts: 7
It's really over with MWRR is out, BNSF is in!
 
« Reply #41 on: Aug 9th, 2003, 10:10am »
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Yesterday was the their last run from Butte to Garrison.  We ran with them both ways and got some great shots.  They picked up a BNSF GP38 at Garrison and brought it back to Butte Yard.  There is also 3 other EMDs with strange paint in the yard today. A BN green GP40, a SF yellow GP60, and a BNSF GP50.  BNSF officially takes over Sunday morning 8-10-03 at 12:30am.  The MWRR and RARW engines will be taken to Anaconda for storage. I guess this it everybody, I hope it's all up from here with BNSF. Who knows what the future will be?  
 
Thankyou and Best of Luck in finding your Happiness!
 
Brandon


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Two23
Historian
Posts: 1586
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #42 on: Aug 12th, 2003, 2:03pm »
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I talked to a BNSF signal maintainer today that I found out walking the track.  He said the reason BNSF wanted the MW line was not to haul coal, but rather they wanted a second route to Seattle.  The track they have now has become very congested.  He said they should have never let it go in the first place, and that it's been his lifelong experience that railroads just seem to "plan" things day to day, LOL!
 
 
Kent in SD


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Kent in SD
Two23
Historian
Posts: 1586
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #43 on: Aug 12th, 2003, 2:08pm »
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on Jul 30th, 2003, 10:59am, Brandon wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The line in Northern South Dakota that BNSF operates is the Milwaukee Road mainline.  There is low traffic on that line as of now. It is jointed rail, so it doesn't see heavy coal traffic yet.  I don't know why they don't make use of it much for coal to the Twin Cities, it's pretty much a straight shot there from SE Montana coal fields.

 
 
According to the BNSF signal man I talked to, the main reason is it is jointed rail.  He said since South Dakota can get so hot in the summer, they typically only run trains on the jointed lines only at night.  There have been a number of problems with rails buckling and causing derails, so they hold speeds down to 40 mph and run mostly at night.
 
 
Kent in SD


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Kent in SD
BNSF_1088
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Historian
Posts: 6029
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #44 on: Aug 12th, 2003, 2:09pm »
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Sounds like Matt Rose talking LOL we can not move trains anymore and i don't know why.

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Butte Wisdom and Pacific Ry.
Railfan
Posts: 101
Milwaukee Road Through SD
 
« Reply #45 on: Aug 13th, 2003, 9:15am »
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If Union Pacific could have predicted the future, they would have most certainly bought the whole thing in tact from Miles City west to Tacoma, the abandoned section.  UP looked hard at the section from Silver Bow, MT to Spokane. The way railroads were depressed in 1980, it wasn't thinkable to buy more dead weight. But now things are different, and in my opinion UP would love to have a northern east-west route to zap BN's choke hold of the north.  The point of this is that if things were predictable in 1980, UP would be operating The Milwaukee Road in northern South Dakota.
Competition is a good thing!


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Butte Wisdom and Pacific Ry.
Railfan
Posts: 101
BNSF: One Month Later
 
« Reply #46 on: Sep 9th, 2003, 5:22pm »
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Well it's all orange and green in Butte Yard.  It's been business as usual so far, same old grind as if MWRR were here.  I guess you can say MWRR got a paint job.
They've been cleaning scrap out of the yard and sprucing things up a little.  They still haven't cleaned the weed out of the yard yet, all the need is a book of matches. I  haven't seen any track upgrades or maintence going on, but maybe something will need fixed soon.  Montana Resources will be resuming mining operations this fall, so that will give the local BNSF guys some more to do for sure.  So there's your local eye witness report of the Butte Short Line.


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Two23
Historian
Posts: 1586
Re: BNSF: One Month Later
 
« Reply #47 on: Sep 9th, 2003, 7:25pm »
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on Sep 9th, 2003, 5:22pm, Brandon wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Well it's all orange and green in Butte Yard.  

 
 
 
Hmm--you mean there's only one engine in the yard?  All the BNSF yards I ever see have orange/green, green/black, blue/yellow, silver/red, blue/white,  and green/tan in them.  LOL!!!!
 
Kent in SD


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Kent in SD
Butte Wisdom and Pacific Ry.
Railfan
Posts: 101
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #48 on: Jan 13th, 2004, 7:19pm »
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Well things are pretty quiet here in Butte, BNSF has cleaned a lot of things up around the yard and right of way. Homestake is still not open (sad), and there is a calico of GPs working daily and Saturday.  It's a change, but I'd like to see some big moves come in like a hub center and an opened mountain pass!

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M19AA
Chaser
Posts: 62
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #49 on: Feb 6th, 2004, 10:32am »
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Brandon,
Its nice to find a site like this. You have had good information all the way thru this discussion. Im retired from the BN Signal Dept and was in Deer Lodge from 1968 thru 1982 when my job was abolished. My territory ran from the W Sw. of Silver Bow to Garrison. It looked a lot better with signals and pole line than it does now.  
What is the reason for the BN taking back the line? Is it for hauling waste from Milltown Dam to Opportunity or just to block the MRL and UP??
You should walk thru the Silver Bow canyon if you haven't. A real piece of history there. I would loved to have seen it when the OSL had it and it was narrow guage. It was a scary place to work at nite when there was a BAP  or Milw. train coming thru the. You could see the headlights on the mountain sides and hoped it was on there track. Sometimes our motorcar lineups were questionable and there were no communications then.
Thanks again for the info. I can now settle some questions with friends about the situation there.  


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Butte Wisdom and Pacific Ry.
Railfan
Posts: 101
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #50 on: Feb 17th, 2004, 9:47am »
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The reason for BNSF buying MWRR out of their lease is because MWRR was looking to sue BNSF for car starvation.  MWRR wasn't moving very much traffic to the UP from MRL because BN had other ways to get their cars to destinations after the SF merger, which was causing financial heartache for MWRR.  I understand that MWRR had a viable case against BNSF.
Instead of fighting it out in court, BNSF swung a deal to buy out the lease.  So now, they are an island surrounded by MRL and UP.  It's too bad MRL couldn't have the Butte Line, and interchange with UP directly.
That would help ease the chokehold BNSF has on the our state (it's too bad UP didn't gobble up The Milwaukee Road in Montana!) I sure hope that somehow Homestake Pass is saved and put back in service. I know MRL wanted it for running eastbound empties without helpers, but that was in 1997, now with BNSF here, who knows what will ever happen to it? Pray for Sunshine!


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Two23
Historian
Posts: 1586
Re: Montana Western is out!
  MONTbnsfmeet-2.jpg - 36315 Bytes
« Reply #51 on: Feb 18th, 2004, 7:22pm »
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Here's a Montana Rail Link SD-40 I saw in action today....in Minnesota!  
 
Kent in SD


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/BNSF/MONTbnsfmeet-2.jpg
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Kent in SD
M19AA
Chaser
Posts: 62
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #52 on: Feb 18th, 2004, 11:29pm »
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I was wondering how the BN starved out the Mt.Western? Maybe after the BN quit using the Helena/Great Falls line, I could see it.  There used to be quite a few Rock Trains and Missiles on that line. I can see how the UP or MRL could do it tho.
I would think anything the BN would ship South would leave the old NP line way before they got to Garrison and had to pay the MRL for hauling it to there. Must be more to the picture than I see. Fill me in!!
Is the Raurus (sp) still running from Butte to Anaconda and back?
I have always wished that I had taken more pictures of the BA&P. Short and heavy little trains. I think they coasted most of the way from Butte and used dynamics.
I'm surprised that the Whitehall to Butte hill hasn't been turned into a tourist railroad. It has some neat scenery. Nothing more spectacular than coming WB thru Homestake at nite and seeing the lights of Butte America.
Keep this and me up to date!!
Retired Bill in Billings
 
 
 


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M19AA
Chaser
Posts: 62
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #53 on: Feb 19th, 2004, 12:03am »
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BNSF 1088
 
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to direct this or add it in. So let me know if I'm doing things all wrong.
That maintainer in SD must be pretty young if he thinks that jointed rail is going to keep trains from running in the daytime. Like you said, Matt Rose probably thinks the same thing!!
Bill in Billings


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Butte Wisdom and Pacific Ry.
Railfan
Posts: 101
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #54 on: Mar 1st, 2004, 9:15am »
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BN put in about 2 or more miles of welded rail east of Deer Lodge in the early 1980s. I have no idea why. They also have some in Jefferson Canyon near Lewis and Clark Caverns, but I think MRL may have put that in.

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Two23
Historian
Posts: 1586
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #55 on: Mar 1st, 2004, 9:49am »
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I know in Eastern South Dakota there is some jointed rail and local engineers tell me they have "stop" orders when the temperature goes over 80 degrees.  They do a lot more night running in the summer, I notice.  There has been some persistent problems with the older jointed rail here.  The DM&E is replacing all their old C&NW jointed rail with welded.  This is partly because they've been hit with a number of derails over the past year and partly they are upgrading to 136# rail in anticipation of hauling coal some day.
 
 
Kent in SD


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Kent in SD
M19AA
Chaser
Posts: 62
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #56 on: Mar 1st, 2004, 11:11am »
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I know this has no bearing on much of anything, but just for the record if anyone cares!!  
The NP put in some of the 1st, if not the 1st ribbon rail from Garrison to just about Dempsey/Sinclair ( Old Milwaukee Crossover ) S. of Deer Lodge in the 1960's.  
The technology was not what it is now. I think they just went with the temperature of the day and didn't use propane rail heaters like now. There was a buffer rail on each side of each insulated joint for expansion and contraction. We had to change the bolts in them twice a year. They were usually bent like horse shoes or about wore thru.  Lots of pull on them account of the poor anchoring and temperature control when it was laid.
The rest of the track East of there was mostly 100# RE jointed rail.  It was junk in 1983. Curves had bigger rail. That is what the North Coast Limited and Amtrak was running 79 MPH on. I saw one pull apart by Opportunity/Stuart that was open 2 feet.  
Keep us posted on the action up there.
 
Bill in Billings    


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Butte Wisdom and Pacific Ry.
Railfan
Posts: 101
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #57 on: Mar 1st, 2004, 5:14pm »
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The NC Hia didn't derail because of that opening did it?

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M19AA
Chaser
Posts: 62
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #58 on: Mar 2nd, 2004, 12:05am »
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The signal system that was in place then, protected the Northcoast Limited and other trains from a derailment account of  most open joints..
Now, they would go over it at 49 MPH or at whatever the maximum speed is set.
When the Hiawatha was pulled off, that was the demise of the signals on the Logan to Garrison line.
 
Bill in Billings


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Butte Wisdom and Pacific Ry.
Railfan
Posts: 101
Re: Montana Western is out!
 
« Reply #59 on: Mar 3rd, 2004, 9:16am »
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I don't know what their speed is.  I haven't seen BNSF doing any big maintainence yet, they might not be here for long anyway.  They're liable to spin it off again to anybody but MRL.

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