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Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
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   Author  Topic: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"  (Read 566 times)
Long branch Flyer-Limited
Former Member
Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #40 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 10:55pm »
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"Back To The Future", AMTRAK-style........
 
http://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/a-closer-look-space-age-transport
 
(courtesy: Amtrak.com)


« Last Edit: Jul 2nd, 2016, 11:01pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
Former Member
Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #41 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 11:17pm »
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Recalling the LRC's........
 
http://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/the-lrcs
 
(courtesy: Amtrak.com)


« Last Edit: Jul 2nd, 2016, 11:19pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #42 on: Jul 4th, 2016, 11:53pm »
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on Jul 1st, 2016, 5:51pm, Long branch Flyer-Limited wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Clyde:
 
If you were last on the East Coast when GG-1's were still hauling PRR trains, it is a safe bet that you've been far removed from NEC territory for nearly a half-century! (hard to believe the 50th anniversary of the PENN CENTRAL will be upon us in less than two years!)
 
As to the electrics, given the great success of long-distance electrification in Europe over the decades, it does not surprise me in the least that the electrics of the 80's and beyond all have "Euro" roots......
 
"L.F.L."

 
Pretty much so. 1966 when I was at APG for Ordnance Basic, then two summer sessions in the mid-70s, when Penn-Central hadn't quite happened yet (72 and 73). Was at Charlottesville in 74 and the main service there was Southern. Had no occasion to go further than DC. And then had a trip to Charlottesville via DC in  77. Washington National Airport, then Southern Crescent to Charlottesville.  
 
And while that is not the last time I was on the East Coast, it is the last rail adventure in the area. And certainly the last time I was even a little bit close to electrified trackage.


« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2016, 11:54pm by ClydeDET » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
Former Member
Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #43 on: Jul 5th, 2016, 12:03am »
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Clyde:
 
Living within minutes of the NEC and the former DL&W/E-L Morris & Essex lines for nearly sixty years, one can easily take the "juiced rails" for granted.
 
I often contemplate on what might have been, when the P-C merger took place in 1968, had AMTRAK arrived to assume operation of the nation's through train services.
 
ConRail, I know, never keen on passenger operations was very eager to get out of the commuter business in the early 80's, when NJT and Metro-North took over their suburban runs.
 
I often think about modern high-speed diesel trainsets (recalling the TEE's of Europe that were running at that time) operating beyond the NEC; once AMTRAK took the helm.
 
Then again, I am sure that a lot of non-NEC trackage was in less than stellar shape at that time, which would have made it more or less redundant to try to operate new high speed trainsets.
 
Of course, there WERE the Turbotrains and the Turboliners........
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2016, 12:05am by CLASSB » Logged
jmlaboda
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Posts: 389
Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #44 on: Jul 5th, 2016, 12:53am »
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Quote:
ConRail, I know, never keen on passenger operations was very eager to get out of the commuter business in the early 80's, when NJT and Metro-North took over their suburban runs.

 
This happened soon after the creation of Conrail in 1976.  At that time NJT wasn't NJT, it was N.J.D.O.T. and Metro-North was pretty much still Metropolitan Transit Authority.


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jerry
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Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #45 on: Jul 5th, 2016, 1:03am »
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on Jul 5th, 2016, 12:53am, jmlaboda wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
This happened soon after the creation of Conrail in 1976.  At that time NJT wasn't NJT, it was N.J.D.O.T. and Metro-North was pretty much still Metropolitan Transit Authority.

 
 
Jim:
 
Certainly I can remember the now-classic NJDOT insignias carried on the ex-EL and CNJ commuter cars back in the 70's, as well as on our buses.
 
I remember when the M-1's entered service on the Harlem/Hudson lines out of GCT ,the blue stripe adorning the cars, which clearly gave the impression of a strong corporate "family".
 
The same with the M-1's that were replacing the elderly, venerable LIRR MP-54 fleet.
 
Likewise, the R-44's which the MTA purchased for service on the SIRT, replacing the 1925 ME-1 electrics, which, until the 1971 MTA takeover, were owned by the B&O, which had operated the SIRT prior to that date......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2016, 8:54am by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
Former Member
Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #46 on: Jul 6th, 2016, 12:01am »
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Speaking of AMTRAK "juice" power......
 
I have long enjoyed contemplating PRR (and later, AMTRAK) wires extending west from Harrisburg.
 
According to Brian Cudahy's "RAILS UNDER THE MIGHTY HUDSON", the PRR once looked to the grades of the Allegheny Mountains, and the long haul up to Gallitzan, PA.
 
It was reasoned that, if electrification could conquer the Hudson River, why not the Alleghenies?
 
In most installations at that time, including city subway and elevated lines, electricity was generated and transmitted as alternating current,  and only converted to dc at substations along the route.
 
Though the PRR was indeed looking to extend its wires far west of Philadelphia, ac was then not the quantity that dc was.
 
The fly in the ointment here was that, direct current,  while tried and true as a reliable source of power for modest-sized electrification projects, did not have the good properties  for transmissions over long distances.
 
Interestingly, the PRR's ac electrification was compatible to that of the NH's;  after 1933, New Haven electric locomotives operating over the Hell Gate Bridge were able to continue under the new catenary and through the East River tubes to Penn Station.
 
When this was accomplished, the DD-1's were then relieved of their humble assignments of forwarding NH trains under the East River from Sunnyside Yards.
 
Now, had PRR's wires been extended further westward, it would be interesting to see how far the "new" electrification might have reached.
 
Also, it would be interesting to see if AMTRAK would have ordered new electrics earlier than they did, had the wires of the former PRR stretched further westwards.......
 
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jul 6th, 2016, 12:16am by CLASSB » Logged
jmlaboda
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Posts: 389
Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #47 on: Jul 6th, 2016, 12:25am »
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We are getting far a field with the conversation... I hope we can yet steer things back to being on topic.
 
Quote:
The fly in the ointment here was that, direct current, while tried and true as a modest source of power for modest-sized electrification projects, did not have the good properties for transmissions over long distances.

 
But this has little bearing with the PRR, which, like the NH, used AC as overhead power.  And the Milwaukee Road showed that they could use DC power successfully, being the largest operation to do so for decades.


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jerry
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Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #48 on: Jul 6th, 2016, 12:47am »
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AMTRAK electrics......Given the fact that AMTRAK has been operating Euro-designed electrics for the past several decades, it would seem that AMTRAK knows how seriously that European rail companies have long taken their electrifications, especially long-haul.
 
The NEC, then as now, is a true "stomping ground" for electrics; here, these engines can really strut their stuff, from the days of the inherited GG-1's to today's present locomotives.
 
It would have been interesting had the PRR contemplated designing a new passenger electric, prior to the P-C merger of 1968.
 
Aside from the MU "Metroliners", electric operations on the former PRR pretty much remained status quo, with G's still handling the the "conventional" consists....
 
"L.F.L."
 


« Last Edit: Jul 6th, 2016, 12:48am by CLASSB » Logged
George_Harris
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #49 on: Jul 6th, 2016, 11:14am »
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Wires west of Harrisburg:
The main fly in the ointment stopping this was probably clearances.  ALL the tunnels would have required enlargement to permit the wires to be sufficiently clear even of the standard freight cars of the time.  The expense required to do this and particularly to do it under traffic was probably the ultimate show-stopper.
 
AC vs DC:
Not sure about this one.  The main issue is voltage.  Think voltage as pressure in a pipe.  The more pressure, the more volume you can push through a pipe.  Thus, a lower voltage requires a bigger wire or more closely spaced substations or both.


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ClydeDET
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #50 on: Jul 23rd, 2016, 3:29pm »
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on Jul 6th, 2016, 12:47am, Long branch Flyer-Limited wrote:       (Click here for original message)
AMTRAK electrics......Given the fact that AMTRAK has been operating Euro-designed electrics for the past several decades, it would seem that AMTRAK knows how seriously that European rail companies have long taken their electrifications, especially long-haul.
 
The NEC, then as now, is a true "stomping ground" for electrics; here, these engines can really strut their stuff, from the days of the inherited GG-1's to today's present locomotives.
 
It would have been interesting had the PRR contemplated designing a new passenger electric, prior to the P-C merger of 1968.
 
Aside from the MU "Metroliners", electric operations on the former PRR pretty much remained status quo, with G's still handling the the "conventional" consists....
 
"L.F.L."
 

 
 
"Long haul" in Europe is short haul here when you actually look at numbers - All of Western Europe (France + Germany + BENELUX) is about the size of Texas.... What makes electric traction attractive in Europe is the service density. Wish it would work here, but there  you are.


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