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Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
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   Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
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   Author  Topic: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"  (Read 540 times)
NEFAN
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #20 on: Jun 28th, 2016, 6:12pm »
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on Jun 28th, 2016, 1:55pm, jmlaboda wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 But there was one taker.  Nacionales de Mexico bought a group of them but never completed the electrification plan that they wanted to do, with many being scrapped without seeing much use.

 
Ah yes, now I remember those! I guess since they never saw service I dismissed them in my recollection.


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Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #21 on: Jun 28th, 2016, 6:19pm »
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All:
 
One of the reasons AMTRAK needs an electric with a lot of "oomph" are the steep grades within the Hudson River tubes, opened by the PRR in 1910.
 
The grades in the tubes are 1.93%, steeper than the PRR's graders over the Allegheny Mountains; this was the reason that a powerful "motor" had to be found, in this case, the venerable side-rodded DD-1's.
 
Without a doubt, it takes a POWERFUL engine to haul consists through those ancient trans-Hudson tubes......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2016, 10:13pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #22 on: Jun 28th, 2016, 8:48pm »
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Mention must be made of the French "X996" experimental of the late 70's:
 
http://www.amtrakhistoricalsociety.org/x996.html
 
(courtesy: Amtrak Historical Society)
 
The "X996" in action......
 
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=174937
 
(courtesy: rrpicturearchives.net)


« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2016, 10:12pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #23 on: Jun 28th, 2016, 8:52pm »
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In this timeless scene, we see a NY&LB train, made up of second hand through coaches, being hauled by ex-AMTRAK GG-1 #4934.
 
Note that the "G" is still lettered for AMTRAK........
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk4934arc.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #24 on: Jun 28th, 2016, 9:03pm »
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1985, South Amboy.
 
Here we see an ex-AMTRAK E-60, still in AMTRAK paint, but also displaying NJT's then-current "disco stripes".......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/njdot/njt961arc.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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George_Harris
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #25 on: Jun 29th, 2016, 1:37am »
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on Jun 28th, 2016, 6:19pm, Long branch Flyer-Limited wrote:       (Click here for original message)
All:
 
One of the reasons AMTRAK needs an electric with a lot of "oomph" are the steep grades within the Hudson River tubes, opened by the PRR in 1910.
 
The grades in the tubes are 1.93%, steeper than the PRR's graders over the Allegheny Mountains; this was the reason that a powerful "motor" had to be found, in this case, the venerable side-rodded DD-1's.
 
Without a doubt, it takes a POWERFUL engine to haul consists through those ancient trans-Hudson tubes......
 
"L.F.L."

And it is not just the grades, it is that it is in a tunnel.  In a tunnel the train is acting as a piston pushing a huge plug of air.  This does not happen in open air, as the air is simply pushed aside.  In any calculation of train resistance, the third term, which is proportional to V^2, that is the velocity squared is primarily air resistance.  This term is larger for tunnels than open air.  For a tunnel as tight as the Hudson Tubes, that would be MUCH larger.  Unless they wanted to run through these tunnels at very slow speeds a goodly chunk of the power moving the train would be used to overcome air resistance.  


« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2016, 1:38am by George_Harris » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #26 on: Jun 29th, 2016, 9:04am »
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on Jun 29th, 2016, 1:37am, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

And it is not just the grades, it is that it is in a tunnel.  In a tunnel the train is acting as a piston pushing a huge plug of air.  This does not happen in open air, as the air is simply pushed aside.  In any calculation of train resistance, the third term, which is proportional to V^2, that is the velocity squared is primarily air resistance.  This term is larger for tunnels than open air.  For a tunnel as tight as the Hudson Tubes, that would be MUCH larger.  Unless they wanted to run through these tunnels at very slow speeds a goodly chunk of the power moving the train would be used to overcome air resistance.  

 
George:
 
A VERY valid point......I thank you for enlightening us here!
 
It is odd that you mention this; in Brian Cudahy's "RAILS UNDER THE MIGHTY HUDSON", when documenting the early days of the H&M Railroad (Hudson Tubes; today's PATH), the text details how the twin tubes of the uptown line to 33rd St. were completely separated from each other.
 
Engineers pointed out that this would provide much better ventilation of the tubes.
 
Approaching trains would act like a piston, circulating fresh air through the tubes themselves as well as the stations (as a former PATH commuter for nearly 25 years, I can certainly attest to this!)
 
As pulmonary disease was a deadly and feared killer at that time, tunnel ventilation was a strong concern.......
 
"L.F.L."
 
 


« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2016, 1:50pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #27 on: Jun 30th, 2016, 6:49pm »
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Like their predecessors, the new generation of AMTRAK electrics retains a distinct and classic "Euro" look...........
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_ACS-64
 
http://blog.amtrak.com/2013/05/four-sneak-peek-photos-of-our-new-locomotives/
 
(courtesy: Amtrak.com)


« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2016, 6:58pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #28 on: Jun 30th, 2016, 7:06pm »
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An interesting illustrated article on the construction of PRR's 1910 Hudson (North) River tubes.......
 
http://insights.globalspec.com/article/1711/engineering-a-rail-tunnel-to-manhattan
 
(courtesy: Engineering360)


« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2016, 7:08pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #29 on: Jun 30th, 2016, 10:44pm »
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Next stop.......Nice.....Munich.....Brussels.....Budapest....Philadelphia......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-e0639y16.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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ClydeDET
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #30 on: Jul 1st, 2016, 5:15pm »
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Last time I was on the East Coast, it was still PRR. GGIs on passenger, rectifiers on freight. No real opinion on AMTRAK's best electrics.
 
As to diesels, I think the current monstrous  GEs are probably truly the best AMTRAK has had. Liked the SDP-40Fs, never much cared for the F-40s (though they did good work).


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Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #31 on: Jul 1st, 2016, 5:51pm »
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on Jul 1st, 2016, 5:15pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Last time I was on the East Coast, it was still PRR. GGIs on passenger, rectifiers on freight. No real opinion on AMTRAK's best electrics.
 
As to diesels, I think the current monstrous  GEs are probably truly the best AMTRAK has had. Liked the SDP-40Fs, never much cared for the F-40s (though they did good work).

 
Clyde:
 
If you were last on the East Coast when GG-1's were still hauling PRR trains, it is a safe bet that you've been far removed from NEC territory for nearly a half-century! (hard to believe the 50th anniversary of the PENN CENTRAL will be upon us in less than two years!)
 
As to the electrics, given the great success of long-distance electrification in Europe over the decades, it does not surprise me in the least that the electrics of the 80's and beyond all have "Euro" roots......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2016, 5:56pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #32 on: Jul 1st, 2016, 6:12pm »
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Thoughts on the original METROLINER MU trainsets and the ACELA......
 
The old METROLINERS were high-speed electric trainsets that were built to achieve high speeds utilizing existing trackage.
 
The ACELA (IMHO) recalls the concept of JNR's "Shinkansen" Bullet Trains, i.e. high speed electrics with a power car (unit) at each end.
 
In some sense here, the ACELA could be considered a modern-day, high-technology METROLINER, utilizing high speed electric trainsets.
 
Imagine such equipment serving other cities beyond the limits of the present day NEC, if AMTRAK ever decided to extend its electrification.......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2016, 6:13pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #33 on: Jul 1st, 2016, 6:40pm »
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"ODD MAN OUT" ( S. Boston, 2008 ).......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-bosep-jca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2016, 6:41pm by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #34 on: Jul 1st, 2016, 6:47pm »
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S. Boston, 2010......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-bosep-jcb.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)
 


« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2016, 6:48pm by CLASSB » Logged
George_Harris
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #35 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 12:52am »
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on Jul 1st, 2016, 6:12pm, Long branch Flyer-Limited wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The ACELA (IMHO) recalls the concept of JNR's "Shinkansen" Bullet Trains, i.e. high speed electrics with a power car (unit) at each end.

The normal Shinkansen trainset is normally powered on all axles EXCEPT those under the end cars.  The rationale behind this that the rail is more slippery under the first few wheels to pass over it.  These first wheels will ride on and wipe off the water, ice, snow, or whatever sort of contaminant that is on the rails so they have a lower factor of adhesion than the wheels that follow.


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Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #36 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 1:42am »
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on Jul 2nd, 2016, 12:52am, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)

The normal Shinkansen trainset is normally powered on all axles EXCEPT those under the end cars.  The rationale behind this that the rail is more slippery under the first few wheels to pass over it.  These first wheels will ride on and wipe off the water, ice, snow, or whatever sort of contaminant that is on the rails so they have a lower factor of adhesion than the wheels that follow.  

 
George:
 
Once again, I thank you for educating me further; I will admit I had no idea of this arrangement axle/wheel arrangement......interesting, indeed!
 
I now also am getting a mental image of what the original 1960's METROLINER trainsets might have looked like, had the sets been articulated, and, had they had the aforementioned Shinkansen axle/wheel arrangement, if it would have benefited them in any way.
 
Again, it always seemed to me that both Japan and Europe have always had the lead on efficient, long-distance electrifications.l
 
The changeover from one voltage to another (such as used on the Chunnel/Eurostar network) is something else that has long interested me.
 
Again, it makes me think of PRR/AMTRAK electrification beyond the normal boundries of the NEC.........
 
"L.F.L."
 
 


« Last Edit: Jul 2nd, 2016, 1:44am by CLASSB » Logged
Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #37 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 1:55am »
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Gentlemen:  
 
Recalling the steep grades in the ex-PRR/AMTRAK Hudson River tubes, the "Geology" and "Engineering" sections of this article are especially interesting; they also serve to show us that there is also a fascinating "technical" side to railroading, one that is all too often ignored, a side that goes far beyond the motive power and rolling stock......
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel


« Last Edit: Jul 2nd, 2016, 4:06pm by CLASSB » Logged
CHESSIEMIKE
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
  BMLP_E60C_6005_S.jpg - 110017 Bytes
« Reply #38 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 9:07pm »
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on Jun 28th, 2016, 1:27pm, NEFAN wrote:       (Click here for original message)
GE did offer a freight version, but no takers.
Let's not forget the Black Mesa and Lake Powell Railroad. I caught some of their operation in October of 2006.
CHESSIEMIKE


http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Amtrak/BMLP_E60C_6005_S.jpg
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Long branch Flyer-Limited
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Re: Best Amtrak "Workhorse"
 
« Reply #39 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 9:44pm »
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See also......
 
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=127325
 
(courtesy: rrpicturearchives)


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