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Recalling the X2000
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   Author  Topic: Recalling the X2000  (Read 266 times)
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Recalling the X2000
 
« on: Oct 18th, 2015, 10:04pm »
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Fellows:
 
This was another "Euro" trainset that once rode AMTRAK's NEC rails; it was tested on the NEC between 1992 and 1993.
 
After its stint on the NEC, it then toured the country; obviously AMTRAK was not totally enamored with the train.
 
It would have been interesting, however, had this train proved successful for AMTRAK, and orders were placed.
 
Perhaps the ACELA might not have existed, had the X2000 had been a success with AMTRAK....of course, today in 2015, all we can do is speculate....
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2015, 10:19pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #1 on: Oct 18th, 2015, 10:06pm »
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The X2000, seen at New Haven........
 
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?68949
 
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2015, 10:06pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #2 on: Oct 18th, 2015, 10:07pm »
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See also:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_2000


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #3 on: Oct 18th, 2015, 10:09pm »
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X2000 photo gallery.....
 
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=39844
 
(courtesy: rrpicturearchives.net)


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #4 on: Oct 18th, 2015, 10:27pm »
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Here is another excellent X2000 gallery......
 
http://skipg.homeip.net/gallery/amtrak_x-2000_tilt_train_photos
 
(courtesy: Skip's Railroad Depot)


« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2015, 10:28pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #5 on: Oct 19th, 2015, 7:28pm »
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on Oct 18th, 2015, 10:04pm, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Fellows:
 
This was another "Euro" trainset that once rode AMTRAK's NEC rails; it was tested on the NEC between 1992 and 1993.
 
After its stint on the NEC, it then toured the country; obviously AMTRAK was not totally enamored with the train.
 
It would have been interesting, however, had this train proved successful for AMTRAK, and orders were placed.
 
Perhaps the ACELA might not have existed, had the X2000 had been a success with AMTRAK....of course, today in 2015, all we can do is speculate....
 
"L.F.L."

 
I do believe the X-2000 wasn't that fast (130 mph tops, it appears), and I don't think AMTRAK was in the market for  130mph train for NEC (but probably should have been...).


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #6 on: Oct 19th, 2015, 7:33pm »
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on Oct 19th, 2015, 7:28pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
I do believe the X-2000 wasn't that fast (130 mph tops, it appears), and I don't think AMTRAK was in the market for  130mph train for NEC (but probably should have been...).

 
 
Clyde:
 
One can only ponder what the NEC services might be like today, had AMTRAK had opted for the X2000.......would there have been an ACELA today?
 
Again, it is only something that we can speculate on, 20-odd years later......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2015, 7:34pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #7 on: Oct 21st, 2015, 6:44pm »
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on Oct 19th, 2015, 7:33pm, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
 
Clyde:
 
One can only ponder what the NEC services might be like today, had AMTRAK had opted for the X2000.......would there have been an ACELA today?
 
Again, it is only something that we can speculate on, 20-odd years later......
 
"L.F.L."

 
Indeed, one can only ponder. I suspect that if we had fielded a reliable 130 mph train service in NEC 20 years ago - we'd have developed faster ones and likely had a 150-175 mph service now. What it would look like I dunno.


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #8 on: Oct 21st, 2015, 7:53pm »
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Clyde:
 
Interesting, too, when one recalls that the original JNR "SHINKANSEN" bullet trains began operation over 50 years ago (1964), you start to wonder about what if the PRR had been in a better financial situation, and itself seriously contemplated true high speed service along the NEC, using trainsets similiar to the original Series 01.
 
Again, as you correctly stated, we can only ponder......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2015, 7:54pm by CLASSB » Logged
George_Harris
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #9 on: Oct 21st, 2015, 7:59pm »
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Quite a number of years ago the Railway Gazette International had an article on speeding up passenger services with quite a few worthwhile points.  One of the best to remember was:
 
The best way to go fast is to avoid going slow.
 
That should be one of these things described as what one of my Brit coworkers called a "Pronouncement from the Bureau of the Blooming Obvious"
 
The whole thrust at the start of the takeover of the Northeast Corridor from Penn Central was that they were going to rebuild the whole thing, but they really did not know how to go about it.  What should have been done was to start with the slowest areas and work up, but instead a lot was done to go for a higher maximum speed limit.  I can think of more to say, but don't have time now.


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L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #10 on: Oct 21st, 2015, 8:05pm »
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on Oct 21st, 2015, 7:59pm, George_Harris wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Quite a number of years ago the Railway Gazette International had an article on speeding up passenger services with quite a few worthwhile points.  One of the best to remember was:
 
The best way to go fast is to avoid going slow.
 
That should be one of these things described as what one of my Brit coworkers called a "Pronouncement from the Bureau of the Blooming Obvious"
 
The whole thrust at the start of the takeover of the Northeast Corridor from Penn Central was that they were going to rebuild the whole thing, but they really did not know how to go about it.  What should have been done was to start with the slowest areas and work up, but instead a lot was done to go for a higher maximum speed limit.  I can think of more to say, but don't have time now.

 
George:
 
I totally agree; common sense would have been start with the slowest areas and work upwards from there, but, then again, common sense can indeed be in short supply in many areas.
 
Too, with the P-C so financially shaky right from the get-go, one wonders that, IF such a grandoise plan had ever come to pass, how well built would the new infrastructure have been?
 
The halcyon days of PRR's virtually indestructable infrastructure along the electrified "Big Red Subway" were long since dead and gone by the time of the P-C merger, and only worsened over time.......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2015, 8:07pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #11 on: Oct 21st, 2015, 9:55pm »
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Stops and starts are killers of average speed as well. The fast stuff would probably need to be stops at Washington- Baltimore-Philly-Wilmington-NYC-New Haven-Boston. And maybe every other train would skip Baltimore or Philly as a stop. Maybe every other train would stop at Wilmington and same for new Haven. Guess passenger demand would need to be looked at.

« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2015, 9:57pm by ClydeDET » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #12 on: Oct 21st, 2015, 10:29pm »
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on Oct 21st, 2015, 9:55pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Stops and starts are killers of average speed as well. The fast stuff would probably need to be stops at Washington- Baltimore-Philly-Wilmington-NYC-New Haven-Boston. And maybe every other train would skip Baltimore or Philly as a stop. Maybe every other train would stop at Wilmington and same for new Haven. Guess passenger demand would need to be looked at.

 
Clyde:
 
Good points, all.
 
Too, frequent stops/starts have long been the bane of both rapid transit and suburban commuter operation; certainly, the wear and tear on brake shoes and brake lining, as an example, more than exemplify the "necessary evils" of operations that call for frequent station stops.
 
I have also long contemplated either the PRR or AMTRAK extending the "Corridor" south of the end of present electrification to Atlanta.
 
South of Atlanta, I see very little (if any) feasibility of extending wires past Atlanta, then or now  (no matter which railroad was in charge at the time); with Atlanta being a major city, I can realistically see the wires reaching there from DC.
 
Here again, we can only contemplate, ponder, and speculate.......weighing out all the pros and cons along the way.......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2015, 11:52am by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #13 on: Oct 22nd, 2015, 8:41pm »
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on Oct 21st, 2015, 10:29pm, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Clyde:
 
Good points, all.
 
Too, frequent stops/starts have long been the bane of both rapid transit and suburban commuter operation; certainly, the wear and tear on brake shoes and brake lining, as an example, more than exemplify the "necessary evils" of operations that call for frequent station stops.
 
I have also long contemplated either the PRR or AMTRAK extending the "Corridor" south of the end of present electrification to Atlanta.
 
South of Atlanta, I see very little (if any) feasibility of extending wires past Atlanta, then or now  (no matter which railroad was in charge at the time); with Atlanta being a major city, I can realistically see the wires reaching there from DC.
 
Here again, we can only contemplate, ponder, and speculate.......weighing out all the pros and cons along the way.......
 
"L.F.L."

 
I'd think to Richmond instead of Atlanta, but maybe Atlanta.
 
And - would going west from Harrisburg to Pittsburg and on to Chicago make any sense?
 
I believe we have previously considered Santa Fe, perhaps from La Junta over Raton and on to Los Angeles. Take care of the water problems and grades, wouldn't it? Imagine a Warbonnet GG1 hauling the Super Chief...


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L. F. LOREE 1403
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #14 on: Oct 22nd, 2015, 8:49pm »
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Clyde:
 
Yes, indeed....many moons ago, we DID indeed discuss SF electrification out of Chicago, with Warbonnet-clad GG-1's doing the honors...oh, man, what a sight that would be!
 
Your mentioning extending electrification at least as far as Pittsburgh does sound feasible (at least to me)
 
I never thought of electrification ever extending as far as Boston (as was done with the ACELA); then again, I have only thought of the NH in regards of service between Boston and New York.
 
With the FL-9's being dual-powered, it was far more economical for the cash-strapped NH to purchase dual-powered engines, in lieu of a massive electrification project between the two cities.
 
Still, I must admit I DO love the idea of a NH EP5 "Jet" hauling a New York- bound train out of South Station...........
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2015, 10:35pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #15 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 7:58pm »
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on Oct 22nd, 2015, 8:49pm, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
Yes, indeed....many moons ago, we DID indeed discuss SF electrification out of Chicago, with Warbonnet-clad GG-1's doing the honors...oh, man, what a sight that would be!
 
Your mentioning extending electrification at least as far as Pittsburgh does sound feasible (at least to me)
 
I never thought of electrification ever extending as far as Boston (as was done with the ACELA); then again, I have only thought of the NH in regards of service between Boston and New York.
 
With the FL-9's being dual-powered, it was far more economical for the cash-strapped NH to purchase dual-powered engines, in lieu of a massive electrification project between the two cities.
 
Still, I must admit I DO love the idea of a NH EP5 "Jet" hauling a New York- bound train out of South Station...........
 
"L.F.L."

 
More I think about Santa Fe under wires, more I think that going as far east as Chicago wouldn't be viable economics. But, just maybe, La Junta to Los Angeles and down to San Diego, that just might work. Or at least there was a window when it would have, and then make sense to keep it up.


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L. F. LOREE 1403
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #16 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 8:12pm »
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on Oct 23rd, 2015, 7:58pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
More I think about Santa Fe under wires, more I think that going as far east as Chicago wouldn't be viable economics. But, just maybe, La Junta to Los Angeles and down to San Diego, that just might work. Or at least there was a window when it would have, and then make sense to keep it up.

 
Clyde:
 
I agree with you there; certainly a more realistic move regarding ANY sort of SF electrification.
 
Far more realistic (and economical) would have been if SF offered through car service to New York (ERIE terminal at Jersey City until 1957, and the E-L terminal at Hoboken afterwards)
 
As the SF and the ERIE (and later, the E-L) both shared Dearborn Station, it would have been a no-brainer to switch SF through cars onto eastbound ERIE/E-L trains.
 
Recall, until the mid-60's, there was a similiar through car arrangement with the E-L and the NKP, with NKP cars being switched onto Hoboken-bound consists at Buffalo.
 
It is something to ponder; again......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2015, 12:55am by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #17 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 8:18pm »
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The long-forgotten LRC; perhaps this might have been a successful choice early on for a modern AMTRAK trainset......
 
http://www.trha.ca/LRC/


« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2015, 12:04am by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #18 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 8:22pm »
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Discussion on AMTRAK's testing of the LRC.....
 
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46&t=58496
 
(courtesy: Railroad.net)


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ClydeDET
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Re: Recalling the X2000
 
« Reply #19 on: Oct 24th, 2015, 7:18pm »
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on Oct 23rd, 2015, 8:12pm, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Clyde:
 
I agree with you there; certainly a more realistic move regarding ANY sort of SF electrification.
 
Far more realistic (and economical) would have been if SF offered through car service to New York (ERIE terminal at Jersey City until 1957, and the E-L terminal at Hoboken afterwards)
 
As the SF and the ERIE (and later, the E-L) both shared Dearborn Station, it would have been a no-brainer to switch SF through cars onto eastbound ERIE/E-L trains.
 
Recall, until the mid-60's, there was a similiar through car arrangement with the E-L and the NKP, with NKP cars being switched onto Hoboken-bound consists at Buffalo.
 
It is something to ponder; again......
 
"L.F.L."

 
Indeed. If my memory hasn't failed, Santa Fe carried through cars off NYC and PRR at one time. Seems like they may have been off Broadway and 20th Century for Super Chief.


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