Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. May 25th, 2017, 12:27pm
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


"Chicago Heritage"
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Varnish
   Amtrak Discussion
(Moderators: NYC_Subway_Fan, BNSF_1088, MidwestRailfan)
   "Chicago Heritage"
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  11 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: "Chicago Heritage"  (Read 1652 times)
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #40 on: Oct 12th, 2015, 9:36pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Clyde:
 
You are a LUCKY man, indeed, my friend, to have experienced that trip!
 
1960's-era photos at Dearborn show a still busy facility through the middle decade; however, when most mail traffic was lost after 1967, and REA was fast evaporating, these losses were becoming more and more evident in the photos at Dearborn taken during that period.
 
When the last trains pulled out of the station in 1971, on the eve of AMTRAK, the station and yards, devoid of head-end cars and US MAIL trailers, already had a desolate, ghostly quality.
 
The last E-L trains to and from Hoboken ("THE LAKE CITIES") had expired in January, 1970, a little more than a year before AMTRAK began operating our nation's remaining intercity trains.
 
A long and colorful era in rail travel was ending, and the New Order was just beginning to enter the stage as the curtains slowly rose.....
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2015, 9:37pm by CLASSB » Logged
George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3802
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #41 on: Oct 12th, 2015, 10:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Oct 12th, 2015, 11:56am, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The "SOUTH WIND", seen here in a blaze of hazy glory, 1972......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-trn90dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)

I think the train had been renamed the Floridian from the beginning day of Amtrak.  By the time of Amtrak the South Wind was no longer a premier train at all, in fact, not even a through train from Chicago to Florida.  At some point post 1969 the part from Louisville north had become a coaches only train on the PCRR.  The part with sleepers originated in Louisville in combination with the Pan American, which I think was also coaches only between Cincinatti and Louisville.  From there the combined train ran on the South Wind's schedule to Montgomery but with the Pan Am's stops, which given also the deteriorating condition of the L&N's track probably made schedule keeping impossible. The probable consist, and I never saw it, would have been on South Wind days two sleepers, one for New Orleans and one for Miami, or maybe just Jacksonville, and a couple of coaches for each destination, and a diner.  On non-SW days it was probably only a couple of coaches, one sleeper and the diner for this leg.  The diner likely came off at Montgomery.  At Montgomery on the South Wind operating days the train was split for the two destinations.
 
The thought of many at the time was that Amtrak had truly messed up this one, as the train to have kept should have been the City of Miami because it always had far greater patronage, but its route between Chicago and Birmingham had no cities of any size.  As the Illinois Central Gulf trackage began falling apart, it no longer looked so dumb, although the track on the Floridian route was hardly any better.


Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #42 on: Oct 12th, 2015, 10:31pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

George:
 
Greatly appreciate your input......thank you!
 
Sadly, by the late 60's, it was painfully clear that what remained of intercity rail travel was fast sinking into a deep quagmire; with most mail revenue gone, and REA traffic having evaporated, it is no wonder that so many railroads either abandoned passenger runs altogether, or, allowed what trains remained to morph into dirty, decrepit conveniences.
 
I was glad that, for at least some years, that the SOUTHERN was able to keep its passenger trains independent of AMTRAK.
 
Like the SF, the SOUTHERN was known for fine passenger services, and it indeed would have been sad to have seen these services decay.
 
Though, to the casual, non-railfan observer, AMTRAK's early "Rainbow Fleet" days may have indeed appeared as nothing more than a hodgepodge collection of mostly obsolete, outdated equipment, it did indeed give the rail enthusiasts of that time a colorful and fascinating array of "mix-and-match" consists to photograph and to film, the likes of which are never to be seen again......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2015, 10:32pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #43 on: Oct 12th, 2015, 10:38pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

George:
 
A bit off-topic, but I thought you might enjoy seeing this SOUTHERN consist passing through Trenton, NJ (obviously being hauled by a GG-1!) in May of 1975.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sou-s2015ags.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2015, 10:48pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #44 on: Oct 12th, 2015, 11:39pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

This 1980 photo of "Heritage Power" recalls a time when so much of the "Old Order" of railroading was still in use......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk430adb.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2015, 11:44pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #45 on: Oct 12th, 2015, 11:43pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

More "Heritage Power" on the move, 1974.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk295awp.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2015, 11:44pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #46 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 1:49pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

A few more images of "Heritage" E units at Chicago (mid/late 1970's)......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk405cbp.jpg
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk427ags.jpg
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk422abp.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2015, 1:51pm by CLASSB » Logged
George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3802
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #47 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 3:57pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Oct 12th, 2015, 10:31pm, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I was glad that, for at least some years, that the SOUTHERN was able to keep its passenger trains independent of AMTRAK.
 
Like the SF, the SOUTHERN was known for fine passenger services, and it indeed would have been sad to have seen these services decay.

To a great extent that was based on where you were on the Southern.  By 1964 the Tennessean, which had been a fairly high class train had become, out of Memphis two coaches and a sleeper sandwiched between 6 to 10 head end cars and 10 or more piggyback flats.  The sleeper came off at Knoxville.  Another year later the sleeper came off altogether.  The only exception was Sunday night where it would leave Memphis with only three head end cars, one an RPO, and the two coaches and one sleeper.
 
Southern began or was in an aggressive train off program, and would happily kill off any section to destroy the train's usefulness as a through train.  One good example in this time frame was to kill the Kansas City Florida Special between Jesup GA and Jacksonville.  The joint with Frisco through train remained for the rest of the route, but it no longer made to Florida.  An adjustment in the schedule of the Royal Palm at Atlanta could have made continuation of it as a through train possible, but that was not done.  The Royal Palm itself was killed back to the last stop in Georgia in another year or so, resulting in it no longer making it to Florida, either.  However, when looking back they were not as bad in what they did as Penn Central or some others.  They at least kept up the maintenance and general cleanliness of their cars even when the ridership hit near nothing.
 
Another thing not understood then, at least by me, was that the construction of the Interstate highway system had a much more serious effect on Southern's passenger service in the western part than in the eastern part because the alignment of these lines made achieving average speed of much above 35 to 40 mph impossible, and when it reached the point that Greyhound and Trailways could make much faster time, using for example, Memphis to Knoxville in 2 hours less time than the Tennessean, the train was done for.  
 
Think of such things as 12 hours for the 420 miles between Memphis and Knoxville, 4 hours for the 110 miles between Knoxville and Asheville, and on and on.  In the days of 2 lane highways that themselves had miles and miles of 30 to 40 mph curves and going through towns with low speed limits, these times were as good as or commonly better than road times, but by the time significant portions had become limited access 70 to 75 mph highways, those days were gone.
 
I do think that if we begin to see miles of railroad where the passenger train speed averages at or greater than road speed the picture will change.  In fact, if we can ever get ONE truly high speed railroad built and in operation, the concept will sell itself from that point forward.


« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2015, 4:02pm by George_Harris » Logged
George_Harris
Historian
Posts: 3802
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #48 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 4:14pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Oct 12th, 2015, 7:16pm, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
NEFAN: (a brief note while on the subject of RDC's)........
 
For a number of years, the NYC operated an RDC suburban service (Mon.-Fri.) between Detroit and Ann Arbor, which continued into the PC era.
 
This minor service operated with only one round trip each weekday.......
 
"L.F.L."

One more RDC thought:  The Rock Island converted several trains to RDC cars in the late 50's.  One of these that I rode, in 1961, was between Memphis and Little Rock.  It was a single car and ran through to Amarillo TX, taking about 22 hours.  Memphis to Little Rock was fairly fast, being near straight and having a 70 mph speed limit.  2 hours 30 minutes for 132 miles and with a good bit of swaying on the jointed rail.  At that time the Rock in that part of the country had a reputation of being to the minute on time with their trains.  (I came back on the MoPac.  The schedule was a little over 3 hours for 150 miles.  We left Little Rock near 30 minutes late, but got to Memphis on time.  Part of that was something like 15 minutes padding, but the rest was by ignoring speed limits.  Little Rock to Bald Knob, where the Memphis line diverged from the main to St Louis was probably run at near 100 or whatever they could get the engine to do with a fairly short train.  I know we were going past road traffic like it was sitting still.)


« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2015, 4:16pm by George_Harris » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #49 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 5:24pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

George:
 
Again, my thanks for sharing so much of great historical worth, as well as some interesting views and opinions.
 
Regarding the SOUTHERN's aggressive train-off blitz of the 60's; this was much the same purging going on on the E-L (recall, at one time in the 60's, the E-L had two Hoboken-Chicago trains, the "THE PHOEBE SNOW" and the "LAKE CITIES")
 
Both trains served Dearborn St. station, and were discontinued in 1966 and 1970 respectively; though the E-L provided remaining passengers with the expected niceties and frills, it was clear that the end was near.
 
As was the case on the SOUTHERN, some E-L through trains were diagrammed to carry TOFC piggyback cars; by the mid-60's a number of trains had been "chopped up" bit by bit, first losing sleepers, and then diners, before being abandoned outright, as head-end traffic and revenues disappeared.
 
By the late 60's, with the loss of virtually all mail and express traffic, the E-L was anxious to diverse itself of the very last of its through trains, which they did in January of 1970.
 
That head-end traffic was indeed the financial backbone keeping most intercity passenger trains alive through the 60's, is clearly evident in the vintage scenes at Dearborn Station.
 
Head-end cars were seen in great numbers through the mid-1960's; express cars, RPO's, mail storage cars, etc; when this head-end revenue disappeared, it spelled doom for many of the remaining through trains then plying the nation's rails.
 
It still surprises me, that, many years later, AMTRAK brought back express cars; of course, this did not last all that long, either.
 
By the late 60's, the handwriting was indeed on the wall.......and none of it made for pleasant reading, especially for diehard rail travelers and rail enthusiasts......
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2015, 7:22pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #50 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 5:35pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

George/All:
 
Here are two old views at Dearborn; truly sobering when you see the difference a decade or so can make, especially when head-end traffic became virtually non-existent......
 
http://monon.monon.org/chicago/DearbornStation01.jpg
 
http://monon.monon.org/chicago2/09-19CWI-Dearborn-Shot1961.jpg
 
(courtesy: Monon.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2015, 5:56pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #51 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 6:05pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Ex-SCL diners await servicing, Chicago, 1971........
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/scl-D5954dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2015, 6:06pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #52 on: Oct 13th, 2015, 6:22pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

The ex-GM&O "PRAIRIE STATE", as it appeared in 1972; a tattered-looking E7, and cars from the UP and the NP........
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-trn301dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2015, 6:24pm by CLASSB » Logged
jmlaboda
Historian
Posts: 388
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #53 on: Oct 14th, 2015, 12:06am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Going through Larry Irvin's Flickr album and found a couple of shots I thought folks might enjoy... clicking on the image will open an enlargement...
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irvinle1/20668392075/in/dateposted/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irvinle1/20047448733/in/dateposted/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irvinle1/20045837914/in/dateposted/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irvinle1/20659172742/in/dateposted/


Logged

jerry
Passenger Car Photo Index - UPDATED 2 August 2015 WITH OVER 10,672 NEW LINKS ADDED!!!
Appreciate Freedom? Thank a vet!!!
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #54 on: Oct 14th, 2015, 12:36am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

jmlaboda:
 
Appreciate you sharing those great photo links here....thanks!
 
Today's "homogenized, pastuerized, sterilized" AMTRAK fleet is indeed quite lackluster and humdrum, when compared to the early "Rainbow Fleet" days of the carrier!
 
Though a lot of AMTRAK's customers might have turned up their noses at such a hodgepodge of equipment in a crazy patchwork quilt of colors, it certainly made for a veritable feast for the eyes of the railfans of that era......man, if I only had the room....AND the MONEY....to model the "Rainbow Fleet" era in HO scale....(!!)  
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2015, 12:38am by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #55 on: Oct 14th, 2015, 12:44am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

Train #053, with a single dome, and head-end cars trailing, 1973.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-trn053dcc.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #56 on: Oct 14th, 2015, 12:49am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

The now long-vanished "TURBO" (here Train #302) is seen clattering through the network of switches, with a yard full of "Heritage" equipment on the left.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-trn302dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #57 on: Oct 14th, 2015, 12:56am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

A colorful string of now-classic sleepers patiently awaiting the next highball (ex-CB&Q, SP, and UP).
 
Date this one to 1972.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-slpCSF-dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


Logged
NEFAN
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 1489
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #58 on: Oct 14th, 2015, 10:28am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Oct 14th, 2015, 12:49am, L. F. LOREE 1403 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The now long-vanished "TURBO" (here Train #302) is seen clattering through the network of switches, with a yard full of "Heritage" equipment on the left.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-trn302dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)

I remember how modern these looked at the time compared to what other equipment was in service by Amtrak. The Metroliners and the other UA Turbotrains were the only ones close to these.


Logged
L. F. LOREE 1403
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #59 on: Oct 14th, 2015, 10:59am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify   Remove

on Oct 14th, 2015, 10:28am, NEFAN wrote:       (Click here for original message)

I remember how modern these looked at the time compared to what other equipment was in service by Amtrak. The Metroliners and the other UA Turbotrains were the only ones close to these.

 
NEFAN:
 
Those Turbos always reminded me of the classic TEE trainsets of the 60's; there was always a very distinctive 'Euro" look to them (at least, from my perspective)
 
I recall there was to be a big rebuilding project in store for these trainsets, but instead, they ended up being scrapped (from what I can recall)
 
Yes, without a doubt, the "Turbos" truly stood out amongst a vast sea of "Rainbow Heritage" equipment.
 
Like the colorful "Rainbow Fleet", these distinctive units are now only memories.....
 
"L.F.L."


Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  11 (last) ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »