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"Chicago Heritage"
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   Author  Topic: "Chicago Heritage"  (Read 1583 times)
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #140 on: Feb 5th, 2016, 2:00pm »
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RS-3 #122 enjoying a brief respite from chores, 1976.....
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk122ags.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #141 on: Feb 5th, 2016, 3:51pm »
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Even this 1984 view has a strong aura of nostalgia about it.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk227ads.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #142 on: Feb 6th, 2016, 1:56pm »
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If you are an AMTRAK enthusiast, or a fan of UP varnish, or even a CTA "L" buff, this cool photo from 1975 will surely please all.
 
Man, those old UP cars are really SHARP (and CLEAN!)........
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk406ags.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.or


« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2016, 3:35pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #143 on: Feb 6th, 2016, 3:10pm »
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Here's another classic for the UP guys (1975)......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk434ags.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #144 on: Feb 6th, 2016, 6:04pm »
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L.F.L., I believe these last two photos may be of Amtrak's Chicago-Milwaukee Hiawatha Service trains.  That Armour yellow consist is actually ex-MILW.  But you're right; they do clean up good.  As a kid, when I saw them spliced into the consist of UP's City of Los Angeles or Challenger, I thought these MILW cars looked just a bit odd, with those round-end windows and portholes in the doors (and in the end doors, as well).  But they were elegant inside --even including wood paneling-- and rode pretty well.  UP's equipment had the rectangular windows (with window blinds), and bright, aluminum-silver running gear.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2016, 6:09pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #145 on: Feb 6th, 2016, 6:51pm »
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Norm:
 
Being a lifelong resident of NJ, the only UP cars in my area were, of course, freight cars.
 
However, I have seen one early 60's E-L photo, showing a UP baggage car in the consist of one of the railroad's through trains.
 
That photo has always remained a mystery to me.
 
As I had noted earlier, on occasion, you would find a UP "AMERICAN"-series sleeper (Chicago-Meadville) on the "PACIFIC EXPRESS", during the early years of the E-L merger.....
 
"L.F.L."


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #146 on: Feb 6th, 2016, 10:15pm »
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Norm/All:
 
Here is the E-L photo (Binghamton, NY,1963) I mentioned in my previous post, showing a through train carrying a UP baggage/mail car.
 
As you can see, the E-L was still handling heavy head-end traffic at that time; in just a few more years, virtually all head-end traffic on the E-L would disappear.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/el824at.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2016, 10:16pm by CLASSB » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #147 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 1:20am »
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That's an interesting photo!  Do you know if this was perhaps a unique move?  These cars often handled bulk storage mail, and perhaps it was delivered to Chicago too late to transfer the load and still make the connection?  I'm talking through my hat here, of course. I am fascinated by the history and convolutions of the postwar Transcontinental Sleeper service, but I'm not sure that many head-end cars saw both sides of Chicago.
 
Speaking of Sleepers on the Erie, I did a bit of noodling around my October 1956 Official Guide, and found that the Chicago-Meadville Sleeper existed then as well.  Handled Chicago-Meadville (overnight), then likely deadheaded on to Salamanca, and returned that evening to Chicago on Train No. 1, the Erie Limited.  The "American" series UP Sleepers were the versatile 6 Section, 6 Roomette, 4 Double Bedroom type which, in addition to wide selection, offered a total passenger capacity of 26, as opposed to the 10-6s or 4-4-2s, which had a capacity of 22.  Apparently this Chicago-Meadville Sleeper did not originate west of Chicago-- perhaps it was a "pool" assignment?  Did you notice any other exotic roadnames assigned to this service?
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016, 1:44am by Norm_Anderson » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #148 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 10:03am »
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Norm:
 
Yes, it IS indeed an unusual photo; as I've said, it is (to date) the ONLY photo of a UP head end car on an E-L train that I've ever come across.
 
On the other hand, SF box express cars were certainly no stranger on E-L trains out of Chicago (Hoboken the eastern terminal); recall, the SF/E-L interchange was but an easy switching move at Deaborn Station.
 
AFAIK, the UP "AMERICAN" series cars were the only "foreign" sleepers assigned to E-L through trains; of course, until about 1964, through NKP sleepers out of Chicago were spliced into Hoboken-bound DL&W/E-L trains at Buffalo (I well recall NKP sleepers at Hoboken, when I was a lad, back in the early 60's)
 
This is exactly the sort of thing that made the "old days" so fascinating on the rails!
 
Lord, it's all so long ago now......
 
"L.F.L."
 
PS: I have also seen photos of E-L head-end cars offline both on SOUTHERN and N&W trains.......


« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016, 4:11pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #149 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 10:26am »
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Norm:
 
Dug this one out of my files for your viewing pleasure!
 
Here's an E-L train at Chicago (photo dates to 1965) showing two SF cars in the consist, just ahead of the ex-ERIE and DL&W equipment.
 
This train was more than likely the PHOEBE SNOW, as this train handled more head end traffic between Hoboken and Chicago than its ex-ERIE counterpart, the "LAKE CITIES".
 
In fact, the timetables called for the "PHOEBE SNOW" to make up to seven more stops between Hoboken and Chicago than the "LAKE CITIES".....
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/el832ajh.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016, 4:09pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #150 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 3:43pm »
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on Feb 7th, 2016, 1:20am, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
That's an interesting photo!  Do you know if this was perhaps a unique move?  These cars often handled bulk storage mail, and perhaps it was delivered to Chicago too late to transfer the load and still make the connection?  I'm talking through my hat here, of course. I am fascinated by the history and convolutions of the postwar Transcontinental Sleeper service, but I'm not sure that many head-end cars saw both sides of Chicago.
 
Speaking of Sleepers on the Erie, I did a bit of noodling around my October 1956 Official Guide, and found that the Chicago-Meadville Sleeper existed then as well.  Handled Chicago-Meadville (overnight), then likely deadheaded on to Salamanca, and returned that evening to Chicago on Train No. 1, the Erie Limited.  The "American" series UP Sleepers were the versatile 6 Section, 6 Roomette, 4 Double Bedroom type which, in addition to wide selection, offered a total passenger capacity of 26, as opposed to the 10-6s or 4-4-2s, which had a capacity of 22.  Apparently this Chicago-Meadville Sleeper did not originate west of Chicago-- perhaps it was a "pool" assignment?  Did you notice any other exotic roadnames assigned to this service?
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm

 
Norm:
 
The EL's sleeper fleet  was roughly equally inherited from the ERIE and the DL&W, despite the short length of the DL&W.
 
It did, however, participate in several longer sleeper routes, including the aformentioned NKP service to Chicago via Buffalo, and also offered sleeper service on several branch lines, notably to Syracuse.
 
Both roads brought heavyweight sleepers into the merger, but most soon disapeared from revenue service, either being scrapped, or converted into MOW bunk cars.  
 
Some of the modern lightweight sleepers were leased out for extended or short terms, and two of them were assigned to the business car fleet.
 
The very last sleeper service on the E-L was offered in 1970, when the "LAKE CITIES" made its final run between Hoboken and Chicago, pulling down the curtain forever on E-L through service....
 
"L.F.L."
 
Source:
 
"EL COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT", by Larry DeYoung


« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016, 4:13pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #151 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 4:06pm »
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Few (including myself) ever think of heavyweights when recalling AMTRAK's early days; this (Chicago) photo captures forever heavyweight operation on AMTRAK, such as it was, very early on.
 
In this 1971 view, we see a former GM&O train with two heavyweights in the consist (note, also, a UP car)
 
In the background, note ex-NYC Flexi-Vans keeping company with a yard of former P-C passenger equipment, some still in PRR paint......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/amtk/amtk-limted-dca.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016, 5:23pm by CLASSB » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #152 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 8:12pm »
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L.F.L., I have to confess that it never entered my mind, until today, that Amtrak ever fielded any heavyweight equipment.  I'm not sure what the date is on the photo, but I have to think that what heavyweights there were must have disappeared within a few months.  This is obviously a GM&O train (for the first couple of years, even the engine crews and on-board service crews were Railroad employees, not Amtrak employees.)  So, perhaps, the railroad was left to pretty much protect the schedule with whatever equipment they had at hand?
 
Even before Amtrak, when the railroads were streamlining their passenger trains, it was fairly common to find heavyweight diners, lounges, and head-end cars in an otherwise lightweight consist.  This might have been especially true for roads with "shallower pockets," for whom the purchase of each new car would have been carefully thought through.
 
Back to that UP Sleeper on the Erie-- I can't find any mention in my Official Guide of a Sleeper on any UP train with an endpoint in either Millville or Salamanca.  The fact that such a service would have entailed a movement from Union Station (UP) to Dearborn Station (ERIE) further argues against a through service to or from UP.  Perhaps these UP cars were leased by the ERIE (sort of like those NP Dome Sleepers that spent their winters on IC's and PRR's Chicago-Florida service . . .)
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016, 8:23pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #153 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 8:33pm »
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Norm:
 
A few years into the E-L merger, the only heavyweight coaches that were still in revenue service on through trains were rebuilt, modernized units.
 
E-L's diner fleet consisted of ten former ERIE lounge-diners, four former ERIE diner-parlor cars, and two lightweight BUDD-built PHOEBE SNOW kitchen diners from the DL&W.
 
The ex-ERIE equipment was rebuilt in the late 1940's at the Susquehanna, PA, shops.
 
Modifications included rebuilding into a lounge-diner configuration, with a "streamline compatible" roofline., double glazed picture windows, and roller bearing trucks.
 
There were also a number of modernized ex-ERIE through coaches, built for the "ERIE LIMITED" by STANDARD STEEL in 1926..........
 
"L.F.L."


« Last Edit: Feb 8th, 2016, 4:12pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #154 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 9:19pm »
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Chicago, 1974.
 
Three years after AMTRAK, rebuilt ex-GM&O heavyweight coach #3055 is still sporting its original paint......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gmo/gmo-co3055jfa.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #155 on: Feb 7th, 2016, 9:24pm »
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Unrebuilt ex-GM&0 heavyweight coach (#3099) at Chicago, 1973.
 
Clearly, this classic piece of equipment has not seen revenue service for some time......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gmo/gmo-co3099jfa.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016, 9:25pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #156 on: Feb 9th, 2016, 1:39pm »
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EX-NP #219 is seen here at Chicago in 1975, still attired in original NP paint, making for a sharp contrast with the cars flanking it, wearing AMTRAK colors.....
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/np/np-b219ags.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


« Last Edit: Feb 9th, 2016, 1:40pm by CLASSB » Logged
ClydeDET
Historian
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Posts: 4775
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #157 on: Feb 9th, 2016, 1:56pm »
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on Feb 9th, 2016, 1:39pm, L. F. Lincoln wrote:       (Click here for original message)
EX-NP #219 is seen here at Chicago in 1975, still attired in original NP paint, making for a sharp contrast with the cars flanking it, wearing AMTRAK colors.....
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/np/np-b219ags.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)

 
Yep, that would be an eye-catcher by then, fer sure.


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L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #158 on: Feb 9th, 2016, 2:08pm »
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Ex-PC sleeper "OCTORANO RAPIDS", Chicago, 1971.......
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc-s4350cza.jpg


« Last Edit: Feb 9th, 2016, 2:08pm by CLASSB » Logged
L. F. Lincoln
Former Member
Re: "Chicago Heritage"
 
« Reply #159 on: Feb 9th, 2016, 2:12pm »
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Devoid of lettering, ex-PC coach #3005 looks quite humdrum, especially when flanked by shiny, fluted-side cars.....
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc-c3005cza.jpg
 
(courtesy: fallenflags.org)


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