Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Mar 28th, 2017, 12:39am
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Varnish
   Amtrak Discussion
(Moderators: NYC_Subway_Fan, BNSF_1088, MidwestRailfan)
   Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder  (Read 202 times)
ac3
TRAINing
Posts: 12
Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« on: Jan 15th, 2012, 11:24am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

My wife and I are planning a Amtrak rail trip from Chicago to Seattle on the Empire Builder with a 3 day stop in Glacier National Park. I hope to leave in late July or August. I have never done a cross country rail trip.  Any information or pointers would be appreciated.  Thanks
Art M


Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #1 on: Jan 16th, 2012, 12:08am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Art, I have made this trip several times, and I envy you.  I believe that you will thoroughly enjoy your trip.  A long-distance train trip (voyage would be a better word) is a different experience than an inter-city trip of a few hours.  As the hours roll by, the experience becomes almost like a cruise, and you get to "unplug" from the world in ways that aren't possible with air travel or driving by car.
 
Here are a couple of thoughts, just off the top of my head, in order of importance:
 
     (1)  Make your reservations as soon as possible.  During the summer travel season, space is often sold out weeks in advance.  Reserving early might also qualify you for some sort of discount-- I don't know what discounts might be available, but your travel agent might be aware of something.
 
     (2)  If at all possible, spend the extra money to travel First-Class, rather than Coach.  The Superliner Coaches are comfortable enough (think of spending the night in a La-Z-Boy Recliner, and you'll get the idea).  But there are several advantages to First-Class travel that, in my view, make it worth every extra penny you'll spend . . .  
 
     *You'll each pay a bit more for your Rail Ticket, but the extra cost of the room is a flat fee, not a per-person fee.  It costs no more for your wife to share the room with you than for you to use the room alone (except, of course, for the price of her Rail Ticket).
 
     *The cost of your Dining Car meals is included in the price of your room.  For your westbound trip, that would be dinner out of Chicago, then all three meals the next day.  West of Glacier Park, it would be breakfast into Seattle.  The only thing not covered is gratuities, "adult beverages," and snacks from the Lounge Car.  If you were to travel Coach, and purchase your Dining Car meals, the total expense would be remarkably close to what you'd pay to go First-Class.
 
     *Superliner Sleeping Cars are equipped with shower bath, so you can climb into bed refreshed.
 
     *If you value peace and quiet, traveling by Sleeper greatly reduces the need to put up with the guy three rows ahead of you who insists on loud conversation or headphone music that can be heard by half the car anyway.
 
 
     (3)  Scenery-- the first day, you will roll along the west bank of the Mississippi River for over a hundred miles, from La Crosse, Wisconsin, nearly to St. Paul, Minnesota.  (There are now bald eagles in abundance between Winona and Red Wing).  In August, you may be making the latter part of this "river cruise" at dusk, but that's just a different level of picturesque.
 
West of Glacier Park, you have two options, and I honestly don't know which one to recommend.  The train is divided in the wee hours at Spokane, with half of the train going on to Seattle, and the other half going to Portland.  On the line to Seattle, the crossing of the Cascade Range is spectacular, including a ride through a seven-mile-long tunnel.  The railroad reaches tidewater north of Seattle, at Everett, then practically wets the wheels in Puget Sound rolling south into Seattle.  The Portland section runs along the north bank of the Columbia River all the way from Pasco to Vancouver, Washington (over 200 miles-- over three hours) with spectacular views of Mount Hood across the river in Oregon if the weather is sunny.  The Seattle section gets the Diner, so the Portland passengers get rather simple, McMuffin-style breakfasts, but the Portland section gets the Sightseer Lounge Car, with its wrap-above windows for maximum scenic viewing.  From Portland, there is fast and frequent (and scenic) service to Seattle on the Cascades Talgo-- since you're coming from Chicago, the cost of the Talgo ticket may be virtually included in the fare you pay.  But you will need to know which of these options you wish before you book your reservation, because your choice will determine which car you are assigned to-- that way, they don't even have to wake you up in the middle of the night in Spokane.
 
P.S.  If this will be a round-trip, seriously consider going one way direct to Seattle, and the other way via Portland.  Problem solved!
 
     (4)   Don't expect to arrive at your destination on-time.  Amtrak operates its long-distance trains through contracts with the freight-hauling railroads on whose tracks Amtrak runs, and the freight dispatchers are supposed to give Amtrak the right-of-way, but the reality doesn't always live up to the ideal.  Sometimes you'll get there right on the advertised, but running an hour or two behind isn't uncommon, and sometimes it can stretch to the four-to-six-hour range.  Do your blood pressure a favor, and don't count on being somewhere important an hour after your scheduled arrival time.
 
 
All these caveats aside, I think long-distance rail travel is, by far, the most pleasurable way to cross the country.  I predict you will be very glad you invested the time and money to do this.
 
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2012, 10:29am by Norm_Anderson » Logged
ClydeDET
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4775
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #2 on: Jan 16th, 2012, 2:24pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

That is a trip the wife and i want to take. We rode the Cal Zephyr (just one way, west-bound) Denver to Sacramento and that was a geat trip. Cannot imagine the Empire Builder wouldn't be as well.
 
We are in Tejas, and think it would be neat to take the Eagle to Chicago, Empire Builder to west coast with a Glacier Park stop-over, then Coast Starlight to LA and then Sunset/Eagle to starting point (probably either Austin or Fort Worth - have relatives we can leave the car with in those areas).
 
Our trip on the CZ certainly suggested the advice about being prepared for late running is good, and that the earlier you make your reservations, the better.  
 
A trip by car last September (to Grand Teton, Yellowstone and then over to Cody - Buffalo Bill Historical Center) suggests you better make lodging reservations in or near the park as soon as humanly possible


« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2012, 2:27pm by ClydeDET » Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #3 on: Jan 18th, 2012, 9:31am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I completely echo Clyde's sentiments about reservations near our National Parks in Summer.  This may be even more crucial than your Amtrak reservation.  I remember years ago, when I lived in California, hearing rumors that certain prime lodging in Yosemite National Park had a waiting list of up to two years if you wanted to stay there in the summertime.
 
Clyde, the ride on the Coast Starlight is delightful.  And, on the southbound trip, you don't have to get up at the crack of dawn to see the "good stuff," scenery-wise.  Although, to borrow a phrasing from Lucius Beebe, I have found that rising an hour before sunrise, and simply gazing out the train window while the world slowly comes awake, is a solace for human ills.
 
For a multi-leg trip like yours, Clyde, I also heartily recommend a night in a bed that doesn't move, in each place where you have to change trains.
 
 
May both your trips come true,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Jan 18th, 2012, 9:33am by Norm_Anderson » Logged
ClydeDET
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4775
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #4 on: Jan 18th, 2012, 2:40pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jan 18th, 2012, 9:31am, Norm_Anderson wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I completely echo Clyde's sentiments about reservations near our National Parks in Summer.  This may be even more crucial than your Amtrak reservation.  I remember years ago, when I lived in California, hearing rumors that certain prime lodging in Yosemite National Park had a waiting list of up to two years if you wanted to stay there in the summertime.
 
Clyde, the ride on the Coast Starlight is delightful.  And, on the southbound trip, you don't have to get up at the crack of dawn to see the "good stuff," scenery-wise.  Although, to borrow a phrasing from Lucius Beebe, I have found that rising an hour before sunrise, and simply gazing out the train window while the world slowly comes awake, is a solace for human ills.
 
For a multi-leg trip like yours, Clyde, I also heartily recommend a night in a bed that doesn't move, in each place where you have to change trains.
 
 
May both your trips come true,
 
Norm

 
I am quite in agreement with Beebe on that. Be really neat to be able to do it in a PV - either open platform or dome.
 
And yes - over-night stop-overs (and some local sight-seeing) at various change points would be good.  
 
Was talking to a friend abut cruises yesterday.  Decided that it would be sort of (only "sort of"?) nice to break the train trip at Seattle and go up the Inside Passage on a boat. With a stop-over for a ride on the White  Pass & Yukon over the mountians. Then take the Alaska Railroad to Denali while at the north end of the trip. Pick up the train again on return to Puget Sound an on home. m not sure how to fund this extravagance, but wouldn't it be nice?


Logged
Norm_Anderson
Historian
Posts: 1724
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #5 on: Jan 18th, 2012, 6:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jan 18th, 2012, 2:40pm, ClydeDET wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
Was talking to a friend abut cruises yesterday.  Decided that it would be sort of (only "sort of"?) nice to break the train trip at Seattle and go up the Inside Passage on a boat. With a stop-over for a ride on the White  Pass & Yukon over the mountians. Then take the Alaska Railroad to Denali while at the north end of the trip. Pick up the train again on return to Puget Sound an on home. m not sure how to fund this extravagance, but wouldn't it be nice?

 
 
Lemme try not to drool all over my keyboard at that itinerary . . .  I've often told friends that if I ever took a cruise, they can have the Caribbean all to themselves, I'm heading for Skagway.
 
If your bank account balks at the thought of that itinerary, there is one option you might enjoy-- there is a ferry from Seattle up to Victoria, BC.  When I made the trip, it was a good-sized steamer named the Princess Marguerite-- about four or five decks, with a formal dining room, and thoroughly enjoyable.  I understand this vessel is retired now, but they probably have something just as good taking her place.  We made it a day trip (northbound, 8:00am to noon, southbound 5:00pm to 9:00pm, or thereabouts).  Of course, back then all you needed was a Driver's License as proof of citizenship-- might be a bit more complex these days.  I just know it's been forty years since I went, and I'm still glad I did it.  You might also consider spending a night or two in Victoria, check out the E&N action on Vancouver Island.
 
One other thought-- if you do take this trip south on the Starlight to connect with the Sunset/Texas Eagle in Los Angeles, an overnight in LA is required (the Sunset leaves LA several hours before the Starlight is due to arrive, even if No. 14 is right on time).  So, you might consider detraining in Santa Barbara, and taking your overnight there.  Delightful, picturesque seaside town, maybe get a cabana within sound of the surf . . .  you'd need to be at the depot about 9:00am for a ride on a Surfliner down to LA, and a three-hour layover at LAUS before the Sunset pulls out in mid-afternoon.
 
Regards,
 
Norm


« Last Edit: Jan 18th, 2012, 6:37pm by Norm_Anderson » Logged
ClydeDET
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4775
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #6 on: Jan 18th, 2012, 11:04pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

If took the Starlight south, would likely spend a couple of days in LA. Visit the Huntington, LA Natural history Museum, go over to Long Beach and visit the Queen Amry (maybe even use it for accommodation on the lay-over?). Hey - we are fantasizing the trip anyhow.
 
Hmm - what about a loop to the Grand Canyon? Southwest Chief, Grand Canyon RR (they send a van to get passengers at Williams Junction since the Chief doesn't actually go through Williams anymore - obscene arroival and departure on Amtrak, though) deal with a night at El Tovar at the Canyon,  then back to LA and trhe Sunset...
 
I don't doubt a ferry to Vancouver from Seattle would be neat if you couldn;t spend the time and money for the big trip up the inside Passage.
 
Oh - the friend was discussing Inside Passage with is my eye doc. He and his wife are going later this year. The rascals. i envy them.
 
Checked- there is a passenger ferry Seattle to Victoria - passenger only and a sort of a hot-rod boat. 2 r 3 hours depending on weather.


« Last Edit: Jan 18th, 2012, 11:15pm by ClydeDET » Logged
photoman475
Historian
Posts: 870
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #7 on: Feb 6th, 2012, 8:24pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

A stopover in Essex, Montana, staying in the ex-GN F45...pricey, but I'd think it would be worth it.  It's what I'd do if I could afford it.
 
I'd also, stopovers or not, very strongly recommend taking camera gear with.


Logged
VaPennsyFan
Historian
Posts: 481
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #8 on: Feb 8th, 2012, 7:54pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I've taken the trip a couple of times on the Empire Builder.  I'd highly recommend staying at the Izaak Walton Inn, especially if you're a railfan.  The F45 is a neat idea, but their regular rooms are quite nice, or there's the caboose option.  One of the nice things about staying at the Izaak Walton is that it has its own Amtrak stop - so you don't have to worry about getting from the station to your lodgings or a car rental place, and whether the train is running on time or not is irrelevant.  The Inn rents cars, so if you want to explore Glacier on your own, you can do that.  Or, you can catch one of the restored Red Buses that run tours through the park - they stop at the Izaak Walton as well.  In addition, the Izaak Walton in is located right next to the helper yard (Essex, MT) and along the mainline, so you can sit out on the porch and watch the action if you want.  Plus, they have a good restaurant in the Inn (try the huckleberry ice cream or the huckleberry cobbler!).
 
Jon


Logged

Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it! - Mark Twain

View my photos at RailPictures.Net!
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=22578
Les_Shepherd
Historian
Posts: 424
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #9 on: Jan 25th, 2013, 5:05am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I am looking for some opinions before I go into reply mode.
On another travel related forum someone has posted that the Empire Builder is a boring and uninteresting trip and that people only use this train if they are going to Seattle.
From the above posts, especially Norm's, this is not so. Certainly it has never been my perception. Great Northern always made great play of the fact that they had a wonderfully enjoyable route and Amtrak have been no slouches in promoting the train.
The criticism seems to infer that the long stretchs of flat prairie through North Dakota, and parts of Montana & Minnesota are uninteresting. Looking at the current Amtrak timetable, travel through Glacier National Park can only be guaranteed in daylight on the eastbound train while travel through the Columbia River gorge seems to be mainly at night.
As with many travel forums, posters become overly familiar with their areas, take too much for granted, and do not appreciate that visitors find very interesting those things which they see too much of.
How should this critic be best answered?


Logged

HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3424
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #10 on: Jan 25th, 2013, 7:53am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Les - All -  
 
Looking thru this entire thread, noted Clyde and Norm have carried much of the baggage. I must say I am somewhat astonished with the  
criticism you passed along, which you noted made by another observer. So, you are just the messenger here...
 
The critique of Empire Builder route reads more like the product of a narrow and closed mind, with little - if any - appreciation of the grand  
and superb history behind it. If one is such a hurry to get to Seattle, then one should call Delta, United or Southwest?
 
This recalls an event when aboard a C B & Q Zephyr, now many years back. One of the riders piped up, "...how many miles of seeing corn  
and soybean fields can there possibly be!...". In my view, it was all part of the riding adventure. Back then, there was so much service, one  
also had choices of night schedules, where riders could sleep thru much of it.
 
The somewhat ignorant remarks you passed along (from the travel site)? Does it not suggest the critic wants every mile of it to look like  
the NEC? <G> No, no! (Spare us! Please!) The CB&Q/ GN/ NP Route has never looked like the view out the windows on a Trenton, NJ -  
New Haven, CT run! And, the same party might not be happy with Chief Route services, either?
 
.......................Vern........................
 


Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
NYC_Subway_Fan
Moderator
Historian
Posts: 1443
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #11 on: Jan 25th, 2013, 11:53am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Les,
 
For some anything that doesn't involve huge mountains is considered boring.  Some of the same type of criticisms get leveled at the Sunset Limited because there are no sky scrapping mountains to look at.  Yet IMHO traveling through the desert is as interesting as traveling through the mountains.  It all comes back to beauty being in the eye of the beholder.
 
Can the plains of Montana get boring?  For some I'm sure.  But for me and others there is still a majestic beauty watching those small rolling hills go by, looking at the crops (during the summer), and simply admiring the vastness of America.  And of course all that is still broken up by heading to the diner for meals.


Logged

Alan,

Take care and take trains!
ClydeDET
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4775
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #12 on: Jan 25th, 2013, 6:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Wonder if AC3 made the trip, and what he and his spouse thought of it? Hope they did and had a great time.

Logged
HwyHaulier
Historian
Posts: 3424
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #13 on: Jan 26th, 2013, 6:24am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Clyde - Les - All -
 
Yep! That crossed my mind, too. The initial message here dealt with considered travel plans during Summer 2012. Trust it all went well...
 
The more recent message in from Les prompted my response. It is something that I have in mind near reflexively. That is, the US is a very  
large land area. The Maps document fact it can't be done in a day trip in an automobile in one fairly brief day session. That's why we have  
road capable SUV examples, and much air service...
 
.......................Vern.................


Logged

Ticket Agent serving...Pacific Stage Lines...Washington State System...Mt. Hood Stages...Pickwick Stages...Transcontinental & Western Air Lines.... Admitted Gold Bug..... Observant Orthodox Mossback..... H.M.R.A.O. Curmudgeons......
ClydeDET
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4775
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #14 on: Jan 26th, 2013, 7:30pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jan 26th, 2013, 6:24am, HwyHaulier wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde - Les - All -
 
Yep! That crossed my mind, too. The initial message here dealt with considered travel plans during Summer 2012. Trust it all went well...
 
The more recent message in from Les prompted my response. It is something that I have in mind near reflexively. That is, the US is a very  
large land area. The Maps document fact it can't be done in a day trip in an automobile in one fairly brief day session. That's why we have  
road capable SUV examples, and much air service...
 
.......................Vern.................

 
Can't even do that much of it in a couple of weeks. in September 2011, we took a vacation. By automobile (mostly, there was a an excursion by rail from MAnitou Springs to the top of Pike's Peak..).
 
Day One - East Texas to north side of Topeka, KS.
Day Two - Across western Kansas to Colorado up to Cheyenne, Wyoming
Day Three - across southern wyoming and up to Alpine, Wyo
Day Four - Up to Grand Teton NP and back to Alpine
Day Five - to Yellowstone NP, lodging at West Yellowstone, where the UP once provided rail access to the Park
Day Six - drove around part of the Park
Day Seven - across the Park to the east entrance (with a delay for some buffalo to get off the road...) and on to Cody. Some time in the Buffalo Bill Historical Center (once served by rail, sigh), no place to stay, had to go down to Thermopolis
Day Eight - back to Cody, longer visit in the BBHC, then back to Thermopolis (neat town)
Day Nine - Thermopolis to Little big Horn Battlefield, where George Custer was most righteously killed; unfortuantely, so were nearly three hunder moderately innocengt troopers who were with him and down to Sheriden. Saw trains there (BN)
Day Ten - To Cheyenne, via the Historic Trails Interpretive Center at Caspar and a brief detour to Signature Cliff and still visible ruts from the great western trails
Day Eleven - Manitou Springs, visit to Trumble Greetings (Leanin' Tree Cards) gallery and Celestial Seasonings tea shop.
Day Twelve - Up Pike's Peak on the cog railway (great trip, except COLD on the summit) and on across Raton Pass and to Clayton, NM
Day Thirteen - On across Tejas to Carmine to drop sister-in-law who had come with us
Day Fourteen - home. Get a map and see just how little of the United states the over 4000 miles of travel allowed us to see. And how much we saw...
 
There ws a time much of that could have been done by rail, but no more...


Logged
photoman475
Historian
Posts: 870
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #15 on: Jan 26th, 2013, 8:36pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Clyde:
 
Day 9 of your trip-an interesting way of summing it up.  As has been said by some here in North Dakota, when referring to Lt. Col. Custer, 'He was healthy when he left Bismarck...."
 
You had the the kind of trip I'd like to take someday.  Starting in Fargo, where the current abode is, I'd be heading west to your Day 9 stop, because the historian in me wants to go there some day.  I'd also be hitting Cheyenne and Casper, then on to Denver.  From there, it would be on to Durango, Antonito, Georgetown and Manitou Springs.  Then it would be off to San Fransisco and points south or north, depending on the season.
 
Sadly, there's no direct way to go by train to Denver.  I can go a roundabout way, taking the Builder east to Chicago, thence west on the California Zephyr to Denver.  Rental car while in Colorado, then back on the train to Frisco.  Then the Coast Starlight from there north or south.
 
A guy can dream.....
 
Alan
 
 


Logged
ClydeDET
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4775
Re: Summer 2012 trip on Empire Builder
 
« Reply #16 on: Jan 26th, 2013, 9:30pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Jan 26th, 2013, 8:36pm, photoman475 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Clyde:
 
Day 9 of your trip-an interesting way of summing it up.  As has been said by some here in North Dakota, when referring to Lt. Col. Custer, 'He was healthy when he left Bismarck...."
 
You had the the kind of trip I'd like to take someday.  Starting in Fargo, where the current abode is, I'd be heading west to your Day 9 stop, because the historian in me wants to go there some day.  I'd also be hitting Cheyenne and Casper, then on to Denver.  From there, it would be on to Durango, Antonito, Georgetown and Manitou Springs.  Then it would be off to San Fransisco and points south or north, depending on the season.
 
Sadly, there's no direct way to go by train to Denver.  I can go a roundabout way, taking the Builder east to Chicago, thence west on the California Zephyr to Denver.  Rental car while in Colorado, then back on the train to Frisco.  Then the Coast Starlight from there north or south.
 
A guy can dream.....
 
Alan
 
 
  

 
Alan, I studied the Little Big Horn fight for years. A lot of years. MAps. Accounts, contemporary and later. Collections of Indian participant interviews. Archaeology. But that is my first visit (and for a number of reasons likely to be my last) and i'm really glad i made it. it helped a lot in reaching an undertanding about some things in the fight. Which (a visit to the place helping in understanding) is true about any number of battlefields.
 
We flew from Texas to Denver and took the CZ to Sacramento in 2006. Otherwise, it would have been take the Eagle to Chicago and the CZ from there.
 
Or go up to Dallas or down to Houston, take the Sunset to LA, then One of the trains now serving the LA-SF/Oakland route, and take the CZ east. Time and money just did not allow for that.  
 
If you get down to Colorado, be sure and take the Cog Wheel Route to the top of Pike;s Peak. It is a neat trip.


Logged
Pages: 1  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »