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Topic Summary
Posted by: Strasburg_fan Posted on: Oct 22nd, 2005, 1:20pm
This thread has been created specifically for "Eddie_M." and "Mr._Ed" (and anyone else who may want to join in) for discussion on the developing railroad museum in Pemberton Township, New Jersey. Take it away, guys!
 
-Christian S.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 22nd, 2005, 10:40pm
  I'm going to attempt to get this thread going on it's own now.    
Ed, maybe you can re-post the picture that was posted in the old thread.
   I will also post the last quote that you made regarding the fate of the expansion of the Pemberton Train Museum.
          ..........Eddie
 
 
   Quote from Mr_Ed..(Just before the zoning hearing that gave Wawa the OK to proceed, our engineer finished his drawings showing what the super Wawa plan looks like at our rail yard and then what it will look like at their current facilty. It fits there better and gives them two sides with turn lanes that they will not get at our site. And the demolition price at their site is to remove two old buildings and underground tanks versus the five or six building foundations and the turntable pit plus five or six buildings at our yard. But we do not think any one on the board at Wawa knows this. But the township sees it as more rateables since they will then have Wawa's old site for more commercial developement. With us in there they do not get that since we are a non profit organization. But what they will get with us in there is a fully restored and operational railroad facility with operating rolling stock and a huge museum for the tri county area. It will be a great place to visit and will bring in tourists from many areas who will spend money in the area. Wawa cannot bring people in! But we knew we were going to lose at the township level but the county and the state are on our side because they recognize the historic significance of the site so we are very confident that we will win out in the end. It is just sad to see so much of our limited resources going to fight Wawa.  
 
But on a positive note, the N6B 1904 caboose chassis is back and ready for me to paint this Saturday. Now we have three projects going for the restoration department of Carl and myself! He plans to have the diesel running in a week or two. Then we get to collect ties so we can lay down rail to connect the diesel rail to the back rail where our other caboose, hopper, gondola and flat car are. But we need either an off road forklift or a claw to pick up the ties from the donation site. I haven't this much physical labor in years!  
 
Later!  
Mr. Ed   )
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 23rd, 2005, 11:05am
Thank you Christian for giving us a thread and thanks Eddie for your interest.
 
I have some new pictures that I took on Tuesday when the chassis came back but since my company didn't activate the picture retrieval process on their camera phone, I'll have to post them later. But until then, here are the other photos I took with my digital camera.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: wok3002 Posted on: Oct 25th, 2005, 1:43pm
I hope the trust can convince the state to back the museum effort and block the Wawa.  This is truely the best grass roots preservation effort.  I had the privledge of assisting with the roofing on the reconstructed building down there and they truely are a class act.  I wish I wasn't so tied up with school and that the gas prices weren't so high.  I would certainly love to be able to get involved again with the work down there.
 
Kevin O
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 25th, 2005, 3:59pm
Thanks Kevin. Appreciate the kind words. I wish you could get down here too. Our restoration department consists of two of us. And Carl is working on getting the diesel running. I am still trying to get the N5C weatherproofed before the weather really gets nasty. This way I can work inside there this winter. Last winter I worked outside tearing the N6B apart. That chassis is back and needs to be painted black. And the pictures I took with that darned camera phone didn't take very well and when I tried to save them to disk, they didn't. I will take the digital up there this weekend and take some better shots.
 
But yes, we have it on good authority that the county and state are very interested in conserving history. If Wawa knew better they would give up and save us all a ton of money.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 26th, 2005, 8:40pm
Hey Ed,
   Up until recently, I thought you guys (you and Carl) had a bigger task force at the museum?    
   What happened to the other guys who were working with the museum?
    I also understand that someone ripped off most of your railroad spikes too?
     
           ................Eddie
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 29th, 2005, 5:44pm
Funny. I was just talking about the other volunteers this morning. There are many of them but they come out when asked. Carl and I just fall by to do our thing.
 
First I heard about someone stealing spikes. If they can carry them, more power to them. Now someone did steal our trailer last week. The police came out and investiagated the scene and followed the tracks the moron left on his quad. They had to stop when they ran into a downed tree. We have oour ears open and am confident we will find the guy. I suggested when we do, we go to his house and steal his stuff!
 
I am going to take my camera tomorrow and get some shots for the board.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 1st, 2005, 2:10pm
Took the camera and got some new shots. This one is the N5C with the new caboose red paint on the sides. I painted the roof in primer this past weekend. If the weather holds, I hope to get the roof in red in preperation of putting in windows. And yes, the line up is different from the other photo. When we got the N6B chassis back, it was determined that it would be easier to roll the NX23 forward and put the chassis in the back rather than trying to put it back in the middle which was very labor intensive.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 1st, 2005, 2:12pm
Here's a better shot of the NX23.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 1st, 2005, 2:15pm
And last but not least, our center cab, 100 ton GE diesel. The other half of the restoration department, Carl, hopes to get her running before winter sets in. But then we will need to get her down off of the rail and connected to the track behind it. But that means we have to go get ties. Oh well! Another bridge to cross.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Nov 9th, 2005, 6:29pm
Ed,
   After Carl gets that switcher going and air brake operations a go, what color scheme plan will there be for the locomotives and rolling stock?
   Will the Pennsylvania railroad logo be used once more?
    Where do you find track, ties, spikes, plates for the museum displays so they can operate?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 10th, 2005, 5:44pm
All of the rolling stock we are collecting represents cars used at the station in it's history so everything except the GE diesel will go back into PRR colors. The diesel was always used at Roebling and will go back into their color scheme.  
 
We have 1.5 miles of track and barrels of spikes but ties are hard to come by if for no other reason they are heavy and difficult to transport. We have two sources but to get them moved by guys grabbing them would wear out the guys in short order. So we would need an off road forklift or claw to grab them. There is 3.5 miles between us and route 206 that would make an excellent excersion. But we are funded by grants and donations unlike other museums in this state. So we have to work slowly.  
 
But what really hurts is when you hear of a piece of rolling stock that is available but have no funds to acquire or move it. Now if we had the old yard next door that would help immensly. I personally haven't bought anything at Wawa since getting involved with the museum. I just can't tolerate greed and the total lack of respect for history.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Nov 24th, 2005, 5:22pm
Ed,
   Thanks for the clear picture of what's going on and what will be.
I recently ventured over to the train show over at Pemberton High School last Saturday.    
   The show was nice and I got to speak to one of the ladies representing the Pemberton Historical Trust.
   She and I spoke for a good 20-25 minutes on the happenings in Pemberton and of course, the museum.  
   She sounds very passionate on the museum moving forward.  
   I didn't have enough time on Saturday to venture over to the museum, but passed by going on chores.
   The Rails to Trails deal.   From my understanding, it was originally conceived to keep these row's open in case of future needs of transportation (rail) if the area so needed it.
   Now I'm listening to other rederict that that's not what it is now.  What gives?
 
        ...............Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 27th, 2005, 11:53am
The train show was a huge success! We had as many people by 10:30 as we did in all of last years show. I didn't get as much done last week because of the massive amount of foot traffic that came down from the show. If you are around, we are having a hayride next weekend. This gets bigger every year!
 
About the availabilty to reline the trails, that is the first time I've heard of it but it seems logical. Too logical for our non-railroad government to have thought of. We have permission to lay down a single line with a fence separating the line from the trail. Someday.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Dec 13th, 2005, 5:20pm
        This is for people who want to learn more about the North Pemberton Train station and the proposed expansion that we have been talking about.
          The first link is from the archives found right here at Railfan.net.
 
http://www.railfan.net/lists/listphoto.cgi?rshsdepot-12-10-04/Railroad_Station.jpg
 
          Here is the second link, dedicated to the North Pemberton railroad station.
 
http://www.pemberton-twp.com/North_Pemberton_Station.html
 
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Dec 13th, 2005, 5:21pm
  Here is one more link to the national trust for saving and hightlighting historic structures and places that maybe threatened.
 
     http://www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/archives/arc_news_2005/032405.htm
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 19th, 2005, 2:36pm
Thanks Mike! The links are awesome! And the news story puts the whole mess into perspective. Funny thing is we haven't heard a peep out of Wawa since they won approval to rezone the ground. I have asked if they have a time limit on their submittal process and we are awaiting an answer.
 
In the meantime, I have begun installing the plexiglass in the N5C. I have two pieces in and brought the other pieces home to clean the paper off of. They have been sitting in the car getting wet for six years. I just finished that chore today during lunch so I am going back on Wednesday to put in as many as I can. We found a storm window manufacturer that will make the cupola side windows for us for gratis. They said they will have them for us in about three weeks. We are closing in on getting it weatherproof.
 
Last week we were allowed to go up to North Jersey to a CSX yard where they were cutting up another N5C and take any parts off we wanted. So we got both ladders from the ends, both doors, the stove and toilet and miscellaneous electrical stuff to help in our retoration. We did want to acquire the car along with the last known surviving cast steel flat car but we weren't made aware of their existance until the very end and we just couldn't scrape up the money for acqusition and transportation. That's sad but it is also life.
 
Later and Happy Holidays!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Dec 19th, 2005, 4:33pm
Ed,
     I appreciate the cudos but my name is Ed just like yours!
     It's good to know that you received some valuable items for the caboose, though your right about getting everything. (flat car)
     Tell me, what is the way to gain the information on how many WAWA's there are in Burlington County alone?
     WAWA's are as common as new developments here.
     Happy Christmas and New Year's to you too!
 
        ...........Ed
 
on Dec 19th, 2005, 2:36pm, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Thanks Mike! The links are awesome! And the news story puts the whole mess into perspective. Funny thing is we haven't heard a peep out of Wawa since they won approval to rezone the ground. I have asked if they have a time limit on their submittal process and we are awaiting an answer.
 
In the meantime, I have begun installing the plexiglass in the N5C. I have two pieces in and brought the other pieces home to clean the paper off of. They have been sitting in the car getting wet for six years. I just finished that chore today during lunch so I am going back on Wednesday to put in as many as I can. We found a storm window manufacturer that will make the cupola side windows for us for gratis. They said they will have them for us in about three weeks. We are closing in on getting it weatherproof.
 
Last week we were allowed to go up to North Jersey to a CSX yard where they were cutting up another N5C and take any parts off we wanted. So we got both ladders from the ends, both doors, the stove and toilet and miscellaneous electrical stuff to help in our retoration. We did want to acquire the car along with the last known surviving cast steel flat car but we weren't made aware of their existance until the very end and we just couldn't scrape up the money for acqusition and transportation. That's sad but it is also life.
 
Later and Happy Holidays!
Mr. Ed  

Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 20th, 2005, 11:48am
Don't know where I got Mike from. Sorry about that!
 
I don't know where you could get the number of stores Wawa has or if they have a website. You are right, they seem to be on every other corner. We had one two blocks from my house but they closed it even though it did over a million a year because it didn't meet their latest market model.
 
It was sad to watch the scrappers cut up all of those cars but that's life. They were very efficient and while talking to them, I got some great insights into their business. Gotta look at every experience as a learning experience.
 
Later and Happy Holidays to you and yours!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Dec 20th, 2005, 10:37pm
Ed,
   I can't fault you on your comment on learning experiences.  My belief is that if you do not learn from a negative experience and right it, you will be doomed to repeat it over and over again.  The other maybe angst from reliving it and not getting anything positive at all.
   I've been reading more of the "High Line" chronicalling thes branch line.  Though the issues are more than 15 years old, the magazine still accomplishes what it was set out to do, inform the reader.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 2:50pm
Since I had so much vacation time left at the end of the year, I spent many days at the museum working on the N5C cutting plexiglass and gaskets to install the round windows. I got ten of the twelve in when I ran out of glass and gaskets. So I made templates of the end cupola windows and took dimensions of the side cupola windows. We found a storm window manufacturer that will make the side windows for free but we need to find a company to make the end windows. I can't make them because we cannot find the metal anymore. They used to carry that stuff at the Lowes of the world but not anymore. That and the fact that there isn't a 90 degree angle in the windows and we have a problem. But we will find someone to build them for us.
 
So in the meantime I decide to clean out the inside of the car. It had become a storage area but since we are so close to working inside, I figured I would sieze the opportunity to commit a neatness in there. While I was at it on Wednesday, the other half of the restoration department, Carl, showed up and he pitched in and since I had to leave, he finished the clean out. So now we know that we have plywood floors but we do not know if the original oak is underneath or not. Or what condition the metal floor is in. One step at a time.
 
Later and Happy New Year!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jan 14th, 2006, 11:28am
Since the weather is so crappy today, I decided to go to the station tomorrow and I am glad I decided to do so. The boss called last night to tell  me that he picked up the cupola side windows and they are ready to be painted and installed. Since it too cold to paint the cupola window frames and the new window frames, I'll bring the windows home and paint them in my shop.
 
But the big news is that Carl is ready to fire up the diesel tomorrow. If all goes according to plan, this will be the first time she has been under her own power since the mid '80s! I can't wait! The next task will be to get ties and lay some rail so we can get her down off of the tracks that were put in to unload her back in '99 when she was delivered. She sits about 60' from our secondary line up of the flat car, gondola, hopper and fourth caboose. Plan is to lay down rail and tie the two sections together, roll the diesel down to the consist, remove the rail she currently sits on which is about 6" higher than the rest of the line, and then level out that section, and run the rail up to the other end of the trail, about 150'. So if anybody knows where we can get free ties, let me know. The problem is getting them to our site. Since they weigh about 200# each, manpower is not the way to go. Not that we have enough young volunteers to accomplish that task. I am thinking that one of those trailers that the Lowes and Home Depots use with the forklift attached to would be perfect since they can pick them up with it. But we have contacted them and they do not do outside work let alone for a non profit organization. So if anybody in south Jersey has one of those rigs that wants to donate some time to us, let me know. We can supply you with a 501 (C) 3 form for tax purposes.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Jan 14th, 2006, 5:18pm
       Ed good to read that things are looking upward at the museum.  
I read the article written here at railfan about the possibility of Uncle Sam wanting to do business with the railroad again.  
        If that becomes reality, then you'll have less ties to locate for yourselves.
   And yet, who knows what the future is anyway?
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Jan 14th, 2006, 5:51pm
Awesome! This Seems like a intersting railroad! I can't wait to hear more!  
Btw, Does anyone happend to have a track plan?
I hope it goes well!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jan 15th, 2006, 11:41am
Well the weather did not cooperate today so I didn't make it up there and I doubt Carl did either even though he lives a lot closer.
 
Eddie, where did you read about the government wanting to put down rails? Yea, if it ever comes to fruition, we will have a lot less rail to lay but that is a way off so we are still moving forward with our plans.
 
BC_A, we have plans at the museum of what the line looked like way back when. I'll see if I can get a set scanned in for posting. Until then what was there was a single mainline that ran through the station up to Fort Dix from Mt. Holly. In our area, there was a siding that was connected at both ends to the mainline from just inside the street to the other end of the property, about 1/8 mile. Then there was another siding attached to that one with switches just inside the other set. Now on the second siding, there was a switch that sent the line into the old yard that Wawa wants for another super store. Just what we need, another Wawa. In the yard is all of the original ties covered and graded back in the early '80s when the line was ripped out. The turntable pit is still in the ground also. If we can somehow convince Wawa to stay where they are, we will put the yard back the way it was with the large building to  be our main museum. We have located a turntable just like the one that came out of here but the current owner will not part with it. It is sitting in the weeds on his property rusting away.
 
Hopefully next week the weather will be better. I'll let you know.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jan 23rd, 2006, 2:11pm
Went to the station yesterday and Carl had already started the left engine two weeks ago Thursday when the temperature had climbed into the mid 60s. He had to crank it for about 45 seconds but it did fire and he let it run for a few seconds and shut it down. He checked it over and started it again and let it run a little longer and shut it down again and checked everything again. You have to take it slow since the engines hadn't been run in 26 years! He fired it up one more time but when he went to shut it down it wouldn't. He fiures the old fuel in the cylinders had heated up and was finally burning off. It did begin to slow down but it kept running when he hit the fuel shut off switch. It finally died but the engine began to creep along the rail. So yesterday, we worked on the brakes. He brought this hose reel and started our big compressor to charge the system. After running it about an hour, we found and identified many leaks. But on the positive side, the brake cyclinders did move out and engaged the brakes when we isolated the leaks. The biggest leak was in the auxiliary brake pedestal when the bleeder wouldn't close. He will take it apart this week and see if we can get all of the leaks fixed next weekend.
 
Stay tuned!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Jan 26th, 2006, 6:37pm
Ed,
  You are a very driven person who loves trains to death. And Karl is a very enthusiastic person who loves digging into things and finding out the answers.
  You've given all us reading a bit to digest.    
  Please continue to keep us updated.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jan 29th, 2006, 12:26pm
Yesterday I wanted to make sure the donated windows will actually fit the cupola side window opening before I painted them. I took a bare frame and test fited it. It was too small. They built them with the flange dimension to the opening dimension. So we can use them if we build up the frame 2" all around which would look like crap so I am going to see if I can find someplace to buy the triple track aluminum frame material to build our own windows. Good thing we didn't pay for them. So I removed the side steel panel that covered the center of the opening and ground out the rusted metal and primed everything since it was a beautiful day.  
 
Karl stopped by to drop off some stuff and he said he will put the last two windows in the diesel on Sunday, today, while he charges the air system to isolate some more leaks. He did find that all of the brake cyclinders were leaking around the shafts because they had been sitting for so long. He sprayed them all with penetrating while they were out and they have stopped leaking since the grease has dissolved and the seals have taken the right shape. The big leak in the brake stand was due to a ruptured seal. Karl contactd GE and the seal is still available so he ordered one. So since the diesel is a GE, it would be safe to say, "At GE, progress is our most important product!" Pardon the cliche'!
 
Covered the N6B chassis again. We really need to get a good pair of tarps whose rope edging and grommets doesn't pull out in a strong wind. Less than two months to spring so I figure we can paint this thing sometime in May. The plan now is to work on the N6B in the warm weather and then go inside the N5C in the winter since by then it should be sealed up and weatherproof.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Anthony_Ribera Posted on: Feb 1st, 2006, 10:53am
Have you guys asked any local excursion railroads if they would donate ties? Like Black River, New Hope or Pine Creek?  I know they should have some laying around. Its just a suggestion. Ohh man imagine if the museum could geta hold of a old pennsy 0-6-0 B6. They have one down at the Wilmington & Western Railroad. But i believe shes in really rough shape. But hey ya never know, you get a classic Pennsy Steamer over there, work can be done on it!!!! People would drive by and say "WHOA  A STEAM ENGINE" That would be very nice. Ive visited the museum a couple times and i love it!!  Its a wonderful place, and a great piece of railroading history in Jersey!! Keep up the good work!!  Thanks, Anthony
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 1st, 2006, 12:47pm
Thanks for the suggestion, Anthony. I'll pass it along to our acquisiton guru.
 
And yes, we would love to have a steamer. And we have one in mind. Number 5351 that ran out of the Pemberton yard back in the early 1900s and is sitting outside in the PA museum in Strasburg. But like anything else, it takes money and right now our donation pool is a bit dry.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Feb 1st, 2006, 5:20pm
Mr. Ed, 5351 was a K4 which currently is nonexistant. There are only 2 K4s left: the 3750 at the RR museum of PA, and the 1361, currently at Steamtown undergoing repairs.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 2nd, 2006, 10:51am
Maybe I got the numbers mixed. How about 5331? I was told by several people that it is at Strasburg sitting outside. The other engine that served out of Pemberton yard for about two years at the end of her service life is the Lindbergh engine, #460 which was cosmetically restored and put on display at Strasburg with a replica consist but has since been moved outside. Now I am going on reports because I haven't been to the museum in a while.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Feb 2nd, 2006, 6:39pm
Nope, no 5331 on the museum roster, either. As for the 460, they'd never give it up. Way too historically significant.
Posted by: sgp__Rail_Fan Posted on: Feb 2nd, 2006, 7:05pm
If its in strasburg pa it is at this link -www.steamlocomotive.info/ddsearchnew.cfm-
 
Wops! that did not work O well JUST search strasburg at this site
Posted by: Anthony_Ribera Posted on: Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:17pm
Hey im telling you guys. That 0-6-0 down in Hockessen Delaware. Its a B-6, but its the earlier verion without the Belpair Firebox. I hear that its owned privately now. although i also heard that it was up for sale during the 1980's for only 5 grand!!  Man i wonder if that owner of the thing would give it up? I'll tell him 4,500 take it or leave it Pal!! lololol   Thanks Ant
Posted by: Anthony_Ribera Posted on: Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:27pm
http://forums.railfan.net/image.cgi?WWRR/wwrr_5-15-05_xtra.jpg
Posted by: Anthony_Ribera Posted on: Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:34pm
Thats her guys...  She needs a lot of TLC but come on.....  Its a PRR B-6!!  The same class of engine that last operated on that line!!!  And it certainatly isnt doing anything in Delaware that it cant do in Pemberton. I mean im sure with some hard work and determination we can move her and set her up by the Pemberton Depot. Imagine raising funds to get her back under steam!!!  Yea many people say it cant be done, but i say nothing is impossible. Its old what do they want? Of course its a lot of work. But is it worth it?  YES!  That tender is not the original i dont think. They usually came with Slopebacks.  But then again i have seen pics of these locos with larger size tenders. So yea there she is in all her glory... or not...PRR B-6 class 0-6-0 #60.   Thanks, Ant.
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Feb 2nd, 2006, 9:59pm
That'd be an ideal steamer for the type of line being worked on in Pemberton. Just the right size, reflects the local history, and is small, so restoration will cost somewhat less than it would on a larger one.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 4th, 2006, 12:00pm
I like it! I will pass the information along to our fearless leader.
 
I also will go back and research the original  number I posted. There is a picture in our museum of both engines sitting on the sidings here in the late '50s. Our president has told me that both were at the Strasburg museum. We also have a picture of the loco in question with the chalked message on the side "last steam to Pemberton." And yes I agree that they will never give up 460 because of it's historic significance. But you have to remember that she only worked out of here for the last year or two of her service life.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 4th, 2006, 12:09pm
OK. If you go over to Keystone Crossing and click on Hobo section then got to the Camden & Burlington section, you will find a picture of #5351 and the story of the last steam on November 12, 1957 to run to Pemberton. This is the engine that I have been told is at the PA Strasburg museum outside. So since we have one vote for it being there and one vote for it not being there I will contact the museum and make sure that the day I wish to visit that I can get access to the outside which is not always available. If it is I'll get some photos and post them. If it indeed isn't, we will at least put that rumor to bed.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Feb 4th, 2006, 8:28pm
Awesome!!!
Also, what's the street name or adress of your project? I'm trying to find it on http://www.google.com/lochp?hl=en&tab=wl&ned=us&q= under the satelite maps....
Posted by: Anthony_Ribera Posted on: Feb 4th, 2006, 11:27pm
The engine with the Tender Chalked "Last Steam Train To Pemberton" Was a K4s. That engine has since met its match, and might be recycled a couple times, and hey ya never know it could be in your car that ya drive or in your refrigerator! The K4 thats outside at Strasburg is #3750. Im sure she passed through Pemberton numerous times in the 50's but she wasnt the last im sorry. The last is LOOOOONNNNGGGGG  GOOOOONNNNEEEEEE !!!!!!!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 6th, 2006, 10:04am
BC
We don't have a web site at this time but if you go back to page one of this thread, Eddie M has two links and the second on is the Pemberton Township web site with a blurb about us.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 6th, 2006, 10:09am
Thanks Anthony. Sad to hear that, but life is full of disappointments. Although we would like to gather as much of the original rolling stock as possible, our collection doesn't contain any yet! Though the picture of the N6b on the Keystone Crossings site could be the N6b we have. The original  number is written down and we are having trouble locating it. We do have the stencils the previous owner had cut but they too are missing but we do know they are in the section house. But the section house looks like your average garage. Cluttered!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Feb 6th, 2006, 7:52pm
on Feb 4th, 2006, 8:28pm, BC_and_A_railway wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Awesome!!!
Also, what's the street name or adress of your project? I'm trying to find it on http://www.google.com/lochp?hl=en&tab=wl&ned=us&q= under the satelite maps....

 
You can actualy find it if you know where the Pemberton Industrial track ( CSAO) is.  you simply follow the abandoned tracks east from Mount Holly.   you'll notice a big line in the trees, and long thins sand patches that used to be the right of way.   the tracks diverge near the the Pemberton Historic trust site,  one going east to the shore (you'd be surprised how far you can follow the old tracks)  and the other goes north to the Pemberton. origninaly it would have continued on to an old yard just west of MacGuire AFB.  You can still see the tracks there to from the satelite images, but I haven't seen them in person.    
 
I've been watching and listening about the Pemberton Historic Trust, and since i'm failry close ( probably 10-15 minutes away)  I almost wonder if I could get involved, like in the summer or stomething when I don't have alot of school work to bog me down.   And maybe one day on my way to Eagle scout (I still have a long way to go)  it might be possible to help for an Eagle Project or something.  Would I be able to volunteer in the summer?  
 
Here is a satellite picture of the equipment and station.   Were there once many more tracks there? i can see lots of lines in the feild next to the tracks.    
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Feb 6th, 2006, 7:56pm
Thanks! I thought that was it, but I wasn't to sure....  
Also, hows the 100T going? and the search for rail supply's?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 7th, 2006, 3:55pm
Thanks green! And of course you can volunteer to help! I can speak with our president about your Eagle Scout project idea. But keep in mind that most of the work is hard and dirty. But ver-ry rewarding. You are a lot closer than I am (45 miles, 1 hour). Yes there were tracks next to the station. That is where the old PRR yard was until the '50s. We are trying to buy it but as I stated before, Wawa wants it for a Super Wawa. It doesn't look good. Another historic sit might bite the dust. There was turntable, single engine house, general store, etc.  
 
BC
Karl was at it again on Friday and agin Sunday. He has the brake pedestal apart for seal replacement. He is oiling down a huge bolt on the truck so we can remove one of the springs that is broken and sagging because of it. He finished putting the glass in the cab so it is now dry.  
 
Funny, while I am working on the N5C, the wind will be blowing the roof sheeting on the old storgae shed in the old yard and I keep thinking that it would be so nice if we had the yard because that building is going to be our restoration shop. It is huge! I figure we would be able to put three tracks wide and hold two dozen or so cars. Sorry, I drift off into dream land sometimes. But it would be nice to be able to work regardless of the weather outside.  
 
We have a couple of leads on ties but the problem is their sheer size and weight. After several discussions we have decided that our first priority is to get the electric service in the section house. It is tough working from extension cords from the station. Know anybody that has a 1,000' roll of double 00 aluminum direct burial cable laying around that they aren't using? Or a 200 amp meter socket or service panel?
 
We plug along a little bit every day.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 22nd, 2006, 4:07pm
Hey Green! I haven't been to the station in two weeks so I e-mailed your project request to Mike for his perusal. I'll let you know what he thinks.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 5:57pm
Hello people!
 
    There are questions out there dealing with the locomotive-s that were on the Pemberton Branch before steam's demise.  There was also a question concerniing the track work arrangement.
    I now can link you all to the answers to those questions.  BTW, 5244 was the last steamer in New Jersey (1959) working out of Ft. Dix, an 0-6-0.
     
     
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/guide/images/pembertonmap.jpg
 
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/guide/images/pemberton5.jpg
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 11:03am
Eddie, that is so cool! The map I had seen before but that is the first time I had seen that photo.
 
The foundations for the buildings in the yard are all still there and if we get the ground we will rebuild everyone of them. We have unearthed the bunk house foundation as well. We are looking for a set of plans for it so it can be rebuilt just like the section house was. The only thing we will not be able to do is put back all three lines at the station since it is a Rails to Trails site. We can put back the main line and the second siding but the first siding is the hiking trail.  
 
Thanks
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Mar 12th, 2006, 10:39am
  I'm very happy you find the link-s useful!    
   I passed by Roebling Steel and noticed that there appears to be 2 lcomotives left here and a crane car.  Is the Museum interested in them too?
   Also does anyone know if #5244 escaped the scrapper's torch?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 11:52am
Sorry for the delay in responding. Verizon shut my DSL down while they switched my service from dynamic to static which I didn't need. They told me on the 9 th it would be back up on the 15 th! Wrong! I switched to AT&T and got up late last night.
 
What is #5244? Yes we are interested in the diesels and crane but we need the money to move them.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 4:43pm
What kind(s) of locomotives are they?  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:55pm
    (Mr. Ed quoted  What is #5244?)
    #5244 was the last steam locomotive operated by the Pennsylvania Railroad on the Pemberton line into Ft. Dix.
 
      (Posted by: BC_and_A_railway  What kind(s) of locomotives are they? )
      They are 100 ton General Electric center cab diesels, just like the one Karl is working on in Pemberton.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 18th, 2006, 11:34am
I was told the last steam to operate on the line was #5331 or #5351 depending on who you speak to. 90Fan posted earlier that neither engine exists at Strasburg. It is on our dream sheet to have a steam excursion but like many other things, they are just dreams.
 
BC. One is reported to be a 65 ton center cab and the other one is either a 44 or 45 ton. I get them confused. It is the one with external drive arms, because one is missing.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Mar 18th, 2006, 6:31pm
Cool, I Hope you all can work something out!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 21st, 2006, 5:00pm
Me too!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 9th, 2006, 1:08pm
Wednesday night someone punched out all but two of the windows in the N5C. The only two they didn't knock out were the two on the west end of the caboose farthest from the street. Now I have another project-putting them back in. Something I wanted to do! Mike called and gave the police heck for not patrolling the area more. Funny thing is two Sundays ago I was there cleaning the site and I noticed two cop cars sitting in front of the rail yard for an hour and twenty minutes. Yesterday there was one out there for over an hour. Talk about frustrating!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Apr 10th, 2006, 7:35pm
That sucks, maybe its time for a fence...  
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Apr 10th, 2006, 11:43pm
knowing the how kids are they will find a  way through.   Whats wrong with people like that?  to bad you can install an alarm system or something.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 11th, 2006, 4:30pm
One of the problems with being on a hiking trail is that there has to be access to all who want to walk the trail. I feel that we will eventually get some police patrols that might just deter some of this mischief.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Apr 14th, 2006, 9:59pm
How about security cameras and flood lighting?
 
on Apr 11th, 2006, 4:30pm, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
One of the problems with being on a hiking trail is that there has to be access to all who want to walk the trail. I feel that we will eventually get some police patrols that might just deter some of this mischief.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  

Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 17th, 2006, 11:24am
Right up there at the top of the list of things to do, as soon as the money becomes available.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 20th, 2006, 11:38am
NEWS FLASH!
 
We just added a Tidewater tank car to our fleet yesterday! Thank you Pine Creek for the car. Built in the '20s it fills another hole in our consist. So on track two we have the unidentifiable caboose, hopper car, gondola, tank car and flat car. A box car  would be nice. Anybody got one they want to donate to our organization? It is in really good shape and should be real easy to restore. Now if we could find a volunteer to take on this project.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Apr 20th, 2006, 7:41pm
Cool!
 
Btw: Nothing new on the trail here.  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: May 14th, 2006, 11:35am
Ed,
  What is the good word coming down the pipe from the Museum?
It has been quite awhile since we've been privy to an update.
on Apr 20th, 2006, 11:38am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
NEWS FLASH!
 
We just added a Tidewater tank car to our fleet yesterday! Thank you Pine Creek for the car. Built in the '20s it fills another hole in our consist. So on track two we have the unidentifiable caboose, hopper car, gondola, tank car and flat car. A box car  would be nice. Anybody got one they want to donate to our organization? It is in really good shape and should be real easy to restore. Now if we could find a volunteer to take on this project.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  

Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 15th, 2006, 4:01pm
We laid another 40' of track at the end between the cars and the diesel and we put the three sets of trucks on it so they are no longer sitting on the ground. That is 80' of track we put down in four weeks. Next we intend to put down another 40' of track and attach it to the set the diesel is on and curve it slightly to aim it at the other rails. Now if we measured right, there is a 23' foot gap that we will fill and then we can drive the diesel off of it's perch. That is after Karl finishes the brake stand. When we get the funding to put down the permanent track on the station side, we could tie the two lines together with a switch and then move our rolling stock around. If I remember to take my camera this weekend I'll get some shots and post them.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: May 15th, 2006, 5:01pm
Mr Ed.-
 
     Hi there.  My names Chris, i`m 18 and have been working at Pine Creek for the last 5 years.  I saw the Tidewater tank was gone, but didnt realize it went to you guys. I`m glad to see it went to a good home.  If you ever need a hand when you get around to fixing it up, let me know I`d be glad to help out.  We were pricing around for painters for ours, and they all want waaaaaay too much money to do the job. Got the impression that they think we`re state funded, and that the state would be paying for most of it, so they could ask an arm and a leg for the job. So we`ll wind up doing most of it ourselves probably. Take care    -Chris L.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 16th, 2006, 4:17pm
Chris you can come down anytime you want and work on the tank car. I am currently trying to finish the painting on our N5C which I jumped into while waiting for the chassis on the N6b to be painted. This while laying track, moving cars and trucks around and whatever else needs to be done. And we really do appreciate getting this car.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: 2ft_fan Posted on: May 17th, 2006, 3:11pm
Hey Chris you know you wont be going out there without me! lol. I was at Pemberton once. I let you guys photo copy pages from a Saddlers Time Book I have. Its dated 1957. The station was beautiful and I would really like to go out again and you can be sure if Chris comes out to work on the car I wont be fare behind. O by the way I am 17 and have been volunteering at NJMT for 5 years as well.
 
-Eric B.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 18th, 2006, 1:03pm
You are both welcome to come out and get dirty! I will be there on Saturday probably taking more Conrail blue paint off of the N5c unless of course Mike (The Gang Boss) has something else on his mind. Since I have a distance to travel, I usually arrive around 9:45.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: May 18th, 2006, 8:20pm
Mr Ed-
 
    Right I work most Saturdays at this point ( I work for the water company, and unfortunatley main breaks happen on Saturdays too ) So I`ll probably wind up stopping by some Sundays, when I can, as long as its ok. I commonly get called in on Sundays too Me and Eric (the kid above^^) are gluttons for punishment when it comes to track work as well, so It would be great to help you guys out with that too.  We`ve been replacing ties like madmen over the last few weeks at the Creek.  The abandoned ROW that you have is that the Union Transportation comapny line, or PRSL?  Take care   -Chris
Posted by: 2ft_fan Posted on: May 19th, 2006, 2:58pm
I thought it was the Pennsy. I have around 200 or more tickets from the Pemberton & Hightstown RR (UT). I have every station on that line but I don't think I see THIS station. I have Pemberton but isn't this North Pemberton? I have tickets to Hightstown, Sharon, Shrewsbury Road, Imlaystown, Cookstown, Davis, Cream Ridge, Hornerstown and Pemberton. All the tickets are from the New Egypt station and are still in the New Egypt station ticket box along with many more tickets to places like New York City and Philly. They are all from around 1933 which is around (from what I'm told) when the P&H stopped running passenger service. However these tickets and the box are not for sale, donation or loan. They were all a gift and I intend to keep them. Me and Chris will have to organize a day for me and him to come out and help.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 22nd, 2006, 5:07pm
Chris it was the old UT.
 
2 ft it was just Pemberton back then.  
 
We have spiked all of the rail that we have usable ties for. Mike was just talking about putting down the permanent rail but again we came up against the fact that we do not have good ties. We really have to find a way to get good ties even three sided used would be OK.
 
I also found out that Wawa completetd the sale of the old rail yard so it is now definite. There will not be a restoration of the yard unless Wawa gets a conscious or the county or state decide to preserve history and condemn the property and I do not see any of those happening.
 
But on a positive note, we were talking about the old yard and Mike took us into the underbrush and showed us the end of the rail that is still in the ground that ran to the back of the yard to supply the old oil tank farm that was back there. It seems that when PRR tore out the track in the '80s, they only took out their rails. The rail supplying the tank farm were on private property and are still in the ground. Mike was telling us that many years ago when they were allowed to search the land for foundations and stuff, they found the rail purely by accident. If you look at the satellite photo up at the top you will see the remnents of the storage sheds and to the left some tanks. The rail ran in front of these tanks out to the left and way down the trail before tying in at a switch. It would be so cool to clear out the underbrush to see it out in the open like it used to be. Maybe next weekend?
 
Later!
Mr Ed  
Posted by: 2ft_fan Posted on: May 22nd, 2006, 8:53pm
Dam Wawa.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 23rd, 2006, 3:36pm
Amen!  
Posted by: 2ft_fan Posted on: May 24th, 2006, 2:40pm
To these people history is something you learn about in a book in school. They don't give a dam about preserving history for people to see. Books don't teach anyone the same amount the real thing does. People get a better understanding of something when they can see and touch it. Books are just pictures and words and will never be the REAL THING! I am a Civil War re-enactor along with a railroad museum volunteer. To me you get a much better prospective of say the American Civil War when you can go out and see soldiers and the guns they used, the way they camped and lived. And I'll tell you what you don't realize just how scary a 12 pound cannon going off is until your right there by it when it goes off. Or seeing a steam locomotive under steam when the safety goes off and the engineer blows the whistle or (for the few that have) being in the cab and seeing and feeling the fire every time the fireman opens the door to feed that steam breathing giant. To me that's how you learn about the past. What the hell can you learn from a Wawa? How to get fat and how expensive gas has gotten? To me this is a great defeat in the battle for historical preservation. New Jersey seems to keep losing this battle. We don't have much left. Just my $.05
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: May 24th, 2006, 9:53pm
Its a shame the Wawa won, considering how many other Wawas there are out there. does there really need to be one every other traffic light?  
 
the whole thing kinda bugs me.  My grand parents lived on Staten Island, New york and got kicked out of their home so that it could be turned into a visitor's center for an old building called the Conference house in tottenville ( if anyone knows the area).  they also forced out their neighbors and entirely demolished that house.  
 
I can garuntee you that no one even knew this place existed. and trust me, it doesn't need a visitor's center.  the whole place and the surrounding land is so small, it just doesn't even make sense.
 
so when it comes to this Rail yard, it shocks me that nothing is being done. then again, this is New Jersey.    
 
So wait, how much of the yard is being taken over? could there be a small portion saved?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 25th, 2006, 2:45pm
Yea, a small portion of the wetlands in the back has been offered to us in an effort to keep us from hounding their every move. There is nothing back there but wetlands. All of the building foundations are up front and the turntable pit is about halfway back. I even suggested we talk to them about sharing the property with us using the existing building as a museum as planned and wawa putting the store in the old general store building and shoving the gas pumps way in the back where there is nothing of any historic significance but that was turned down.
 
We just have to accept the fact that they won and history comes up the loser again!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: May 25th, 2006, 5:32pm
     It also appears democracy does work here either.   No matter how many voters were on the petitions, no matter how many council members voted against WAWA, it's the Mayor and his league that get they're way.   I have no doubt what so ever that there were gifts thrown their way to sweeten the deal.
      The kid said the right words,"this is New Jersey".   New Jersey politicians care nothing and I mean nothing about history.  This is especially true when it comes to railroad history.
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: May 25th, 2006, 11:26pm
Hey guys-
 
        I`ve never seen a state that spits on its own heritage as much as this one, and its a true shame. Like Green Elite said, how many more WaWa`s can we have? Are they at least going to throw in some free diesel fuel for you guys? (sad attempt at joke to lighten the mood, lol) Its sad how these multibillion dollar corporations control this world now.   Take care guys   -Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 26th, 2006, 10:01am
So sad but very true!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: May 26th, 2006, 11:04am
on May 25th, 2006, 11:26pm, MachinistBoy46 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Its sad how these multibillion dollar corporations control this world now.

 
Actually, there was some town out in California that fought off Walmart. Anything is possible...
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 28th, 2006, 11:15am
A visitor from Lower (or was it Upper) Merion to the museum yesterday told us that they fought off a Wawa and even though wawa threatened to sue, got their way and there is no super wawa in their town. But it all depends on the politicians and sadly those in Pemberton wanted the wawa and that is why all of the petitions and e-mails were not admitted at the first zoning hearing.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie_M. Posted on: Jun 27th, 2006, 11:16am
 I was at the train show in Glassboro on Saturday.  I picked up an issue of West Jersey Rails III.    In this issue is many great photos of this line and of the working Pemberton rail yard in the 1950's.
 I also read in the Burlington County Times on Roebling Steel restoration.  One of the switchers in the yard is scheduled to be restored and on display there.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 27th, 2006, 1:02pm
I saw the article but didn't read it. That would be cool if they restore one of the remaining switchers. There are still two there, a 44 ton and a 45 ton.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Jul 23rd, 2006, 5:51pm
Hows it going?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 26th, 2006, 5:02pm
Just got back from vacation last night.
 
We got the remains of a Fairmount speeder two weekends ago. Frame and cab only. Wheels and motor long gone. Guy used it as a shed. John volunteered to paint it so it looks better. It is at the end of the track of cabooses. A new volunteer, Wayne, and I started putting the floor in the passenger shed we have beside the caboose track. This after three weekends of painting the chassis of the N6B caboose. Took 5 gallons of black to accomplish. We can move on to rebuilding the thing but need to collect some funds to buy the wood to do so. I will go up on the 5th to finish the flooring and see what Mike has up his sleeve for me.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: caboose9 Posted on: Jul 26th, 2006, 6:00pm
Mr. Ed sed, "After three weekends of painting the chassis of the N6B caboose, we can move on to rebuilding the thing."
 
 
Hi Ed,
 
Several months ago I sent a copy of an article about PRR NX23 cabooses to the Pemberton Depot Museum.  
 
Do you know if the article arrived OK?
 
Curious, Roger
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 29th, 2006, 4:43pm
Sorry for the delay in replying to your posting but my Netgear wireless router died, again, but this time they wanted money to troubleshoot it. So I went and bought a new Linksys router.
 
I do not know if they received the article, but I will ask. I do not do anything inside. I am strictly restoration on rolling stock.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 2nd, 2006, 2:27pm
Way back on page 2 we discussed the availabilty of one of the steam engines that ran out to the Pemberton station. I was told and it was confirmed that #5351 is not around any more. But #3750 is! There is an article in West Jersey Rails III and there is a photo of #3750 with the note that it and #460 are in the PA RR museum in Strasburg. I went to their site and there is a nice story about the engine and its heritage. So even though there are two of the three engines that ran from Pemberton still in existance, the chances of us ever getting one are slim to none because of the historic aspects of both engines.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Aug 2nd, 2006, 6:50pm
Dude, I'd really love to see one of those locos run again, but they are just too valuable. 3750 is the only K4 visible to the public at this time (1361 is being slowly restored at Steamtown), and 460 is THE Lindburgh engine. I'm sure there are less historically significant steamers available, maybe even Pennsy ones, but I don't think you'll be able to get lucky enough for locos that actually went to Pemberton . But if you guys somehow got steam running, it would bring in LOADS of New Jersians who aren't satisfied with only one operable steamer in the state (NYS&W 142). Even Pennsylvanians like me, who have a bunch of great steam railroads within a 2-hr drive, would gladly go. But I'm looking forward to when you finally get operations going, and steam or no steam, I'll try to be there !
 
Brian
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 3rd, 2006, 3:42pm
You are so-o correct. Several years ago our organization approached the museum and were flat turned down. Witht he historic significance of both engines, I understand completely. But again, since we run on donations and grants, getting a steamer and fixing it up are about as real as getting the old yard next door away from WAWA.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Aug 9th, 2006, 9:44am
on Aug 2nd, 2006, 6:50pm, 90Fan wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Dude, I'd really love to see one of those locos run again, but they are just too valuable.

 
 
Is there a danger to running the train again? I mean, i can understand if its like, if there ONE left of famous airplane from like world war 1, and they don't want to risk it falling out of the sky and being destroyed, but I figure that railroad locomotives are a little more sturdy than that.  Is there a big danger to running that locomotive again?
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Aug 9th, 2006, 3:45pm
Well I guess not...I'm sure everyone at Pemberton wouldn't be careless enough to let something happen (i.e. Gettysburg all over again), but what if a fire started where they were being stored? Or a flood? Besides, when it's not running, the loco would be stored in a shed, and the public wouldn't be able to see it. In a museum, you can look at it whenever. In addition, I'm sure both locos require a MAJOR rebuild before they could run again, including many replacement parts.
 
Brian
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Aug 9th, 2006, 7:59pm
True, But theres nothing a dedicated Crew and work force couldnt tackle!  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 10th, 2006, 1:44pm
At this time we have no plans that I am aware of for steam.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 5th, 2006, 2:22pm
Well I went back to the museum last Saturday after taking 6 weeks off to take care of work around the house.
 
Jumped right back in to painting the N5C but the work was cut short because of rain. Here is what it looks like right now!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Oct 5th, 2006, 4:25pm
Looking good!  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 6th, 2006, 2:32pm
Thanks! If it doesn't rain tomorrow, I will attempt to install the side cupola windows we had made. I cut down a couple of 2 x 6 pressure treated planks for the wooden frame since the windows were made just a bit small. Hey, what do you want for nothing? In the meantime, here is a picture of the Tidewater tank car. Anybody want to come out and paint this thing?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 6th, 2006, 2:35pm
And our CNJ caboose that resided in Kirby's Mill for many years.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 6th, 2006, 2:37pm
The (supposedly) rare tapered top hopper from Roebling steel. Lots of surface rust. This puppy will take a ton of elbow grease to get back into shape.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 6th, 2006, 2:39pm
An equally rusty gondola also from Roebling.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 6th, 2006, 2:41pm
An NX23 awaiting it's turn in the restoration rotation. This is the good side!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 6th, 2006, 2:43pm
Last but not least, our N6B chassis all blasted, primed and painted, ready for restoration.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Oct 6th, 2006, 5:37pm
Looks like you guys have made some progress! Great to see !
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 6th, 2006, 7:05pm
good to see this moving along!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 7th, 2006, 10:05am
Thanks all. If the side windows go in the N5C without too much trouble, I am going to see how much trouble it will be to fabricate the front cupole windows. We did finally find copies of the original drawings. Wouldn't it  be nice to have the car weather tight? Imagine having someplace to work inside during the winter!  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 7th, 2006, 1:27pm
   All that good news Ed is exciting to read and see.  Who did you have to talk to on the Roebling rolling stock?  (buying and transportation) The same question for the CNj caboose in Kirby's Mill.
    I had no idea for the life of me that there was a caboose over there.
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: Oct 7th, 2006, 11:48pm
Mr. Ed-
 
       Great to see the progress. The caboose looks beautiful. As far as the Tidewater tank, if only there were 9 days in a week at this point and I`d be scraping and sanding like mad. Right now I`ve been working 6-7 days a week. Oh the fun   I actually stopped out at Pemberton with a few friends several weeks ago on a Sunday around 5pm, but no one was there.  Do you happen to know the # of the CNJ hack? It looks just like the 91155 at Pine Creek.  Take care.    -Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 4:45pm
Eddie M.
I think all of the discussions with Roebling were done with the EPA since they are in charge of the site. I have no idea who they spoke with at the mill.
 
Machinist Boy 46.
I wish there were 9 days in the week too. Heck, I'd settle for a three day weekend every so often. There are no numbers on the caboose that we can see. But maybe when we start to restore it something might be found.
 
I got to talking with a new railfan Sunday (rained out Saturday) that has just moved to the area and he said he wants to help out restoring the cars. After that I just had time to build the wooden frame for the side cupola window. I mis-measured so the side pieces were 3/16" too wide so I had to plane them down to fit. Got the frame done and had to leave so I could get home in time for kickoff. Should get that frame and window in this weekend and maybe even get the other frame built. If the new guy shows up, we should also be able to get the end painted.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 11th, 2006, 5:50pm
Ed,
     I spoke with Karl today on all the work.   Karl seems to be very excited on everything.  He even has a picture of his "baby" the GE switcher on his cell phone.
     I asked Karl what he thought on getting that crane car out of Roebling.
He wants that thing really bad.    I hope you guys can get that too.
     Keep the updates man.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 12th, 2006, 1:21pm
I too would like to get the crane but the freight to move it is what is holding us back. Anybody got a bucket full of money they aren't doing anything with?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 14th, 2006, 9:30pm
Got really ambitious today and put both side cupola windows in. I actually built the first frame last week but since I had my own tools this week, the work went a lot faster. But I forgot to take my camera so you will have to wait until next week when I go up to paint them. The pictures will look better when they are done anyway.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Oct 15th, 2006, 11:31am
OK, Mr Ed and Eddie M.  
 
I really do not do much during the day and would like to lend a hand in restoration. so let me know what I can do.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 16th, 2006, 11:31am
Excellent Andy! I have passed your information along to the president Mike to contact you since he lives a lot closer than me. I am an hour away and only get up there one day on the weekend. Thanks.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 16th, 2006, 4:31pm
Yeah speaking about assisting in restoration, a while back i mentioned a possible eagle scout project to help you guys out.  This wednesday i'll be going to a board of review, and it all works out right i'll be a Star Scout, and 6 months from then in march ( which also looks promising)  I should move up the Life Scout, which is the last one between eagle, and thats the time when I need to do my Eagle Project.  I assume when the summer roles around and there is no school, i could try and get the troop to come out and help clean some stuff up.
 
My only concern would be that  i'm not quite sure what kind of work it is invvolved, and if younger boys, or even us older guys would be able to help, or would it be something you'd need alittle more expertise or skill in doing.  I'm just asking now, even though March is a good while away from now.  March is when i'll be seriously looking for projects to do.  
 
I'd volunteer now on my own if i didn't have school and such.  I already work rebuilding parts on Marine diesel engines on weekends, and during the week i often have to alot of school work.  I might stick around in the summer for alittle if its not a big problem.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 17th, 2006, 7:30pm
I remember your post and I mentioned it to the boss. Right before he got married and moved, and moved again. He moved a lot! But he has settled down now with just the usual home remodeling projects keeping him occupied.
 
As far as what can be done, well there is this 1926 Tidewater tank car that is just itching to have a new coat of paint put on her. This and most of the restorations are just a matter of sanding off old paint and rust, putting a coat or two of primer and then the final coat or two of paint.
 
Then there is the diesel that too needs to be painted. The N5C got the side cupola windows last weekend and if we can secure the front and back windows, maybe we can get that weathertight so during the winter we can clean the inside and paint that. A lot of painting to be done.
 
Let me speak with Mike this weekend and get his thoughts.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 17th, 2006, 7:49pm
Keep in mind thoiugh i can only do this starting March at the earliest. I also need to get it approved by a commitee. I don't see why it wouldn't happen, but just making sure you know.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 14th, 2006, 2:27pm
Wawa has another zoning hearing tomorrow night at the Pemberton Township municipal building at 7:00 PM. It will be interesting to see how this turns out since the people that really wanted them in the township lost their bids for election last week.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Nov 16th, 2006, 11:14pm
Ed,
     Did the hearing go off with the respect to the poor weather we've been experiencing?
 
on Nov 14th, 2006, 2:27pm, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Wawa has another zoning hearing tomorrow night at the Pemberton Township municipal building at 7:00 PM. It will be interesting to see how this turns out since the people that really wanted them in the township lost their bids for election last week.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  

Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 17th, 2006, 10:17am
I don't know if it did or not. I'll be up there tomorrow for our train show at the high school so I'll get an update.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Nov 18th, 2006, 8:09pm
Ed,
     I drove on over to the train show with my wife.  Nice show.  We looked for you and the Pemberton Historic Trust.  We found the head of the trust there.  Nice man.  I talked with him for awhile and bought a couple of books.  He said that you were over at the Museum.  We ventured over saw all the work you guys are doing.  No Mr. Ed though, just a Chevy pick-up.
    Mr. Tamn said that there will be another meeting on Tuesday in regards with the WAWA bull crap.  
South Jersey Railfans,
    Not for nothing, but those of you who live close the Pemberton should strike out and attend this meeting.  
 
on Nov 17th, 2006, 10:17am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I don't know if it did or not. I'll be up there tomorrow for our train show at the high school so I'll get an update.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  

Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 19th, 2006, 12:48pm
I hung around until 1 O'clock sorting through the cases of paint and stains that someone gave us a year or so ago. Have to keep the standing to a minimum for a while.
 
Yea, it would be very helpful for residents to come out and support the station in the zoning hearings. But Wawa's plan is to keep postponing the meetings to kill any resistance from residents. What would be nice is if the zoning board would find against them if they do not bring evrything to the meeting to put this issue to bed.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 26th, 2006, 10:34am
The Pemberton Township zoning board gave approval to Wawa to build their super store on the site of the old PRR rail yard. Another piece of history will be destroyed. Rateables over history all the time!  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Nov 26th, 2006, 6:40pm
Well you can't win them all. It happens sometime . Just hope the museum turns out alright, even if you can't get the authenticity we were all hoping for.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 27th, 2006, 11:16am
The loss of the historic significance hurts but the loss of working space is a big slap in the face as well. Our station is bulging at the seams with only about 20% of our artifacts on display. And we get more weekly from residents. The former pre-fab housing manufacturing building was going to be the museum.  
 
And as I stated here earlier, this is the last yard from the C&BC railroad, the predecessor of the PRR. The other three are long gone.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Nov 28th, 2006, 9:55pm
So there will be two gas stations along side of each other on that narrow two lane road.
How many Super wawa's do we need?  Obviously the Pemberton Zoning Board is filled with short  sighted ignaramouses.
"Hey let's go to Pemberton so we can see the Super wawa Johnny said to his dad."
"That will be fine son."  "Then we can sit on line smell all of that wonderful gasoline from our non English speaking illegal immigrant gas station attendant!"
They are a bunch of stupid, stupid b-stards!
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Nov 29th, 2006, 11:57am
As I understand it, the Gasco filling station will be removed.  What they will do with THAT property has not yet been revealed, but we all know that underground petrol tanks require lots of permits to be dug up.  Maybe I am the stupid one.  Having a super WAWA on the present site of both "mini" WAWA and the Gasco presents much easier access/egress from both Ft Dix and Arneys Mount Rds.  That intersection can get pretty crowded when the day shift from the bases let out and when school starts/ends.  So drivers will have to wait in the station first for a break onto Arneys Mount Rd, and again to get on Ft Dix Rd.  More wasted fuel and added pollution.  If we add a traffic light, more taxpayer money and more time spent at idle.  I must be missing something.
BTW, the present gas station and its predecessor were owned and operated by locals, though I dont know if Gasco is a franchise.
 
Yes, and I missed the board meeting with its constant rescheduling.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 1st, 2006, 1:50pm
Now while I do not have this information first hand, it comes from reliable sources.
 
Way back when Wawa first decided they wanted to buy the old rail yard to put in a super wawa, the local zoning ordinance wouldn't allow two gas stations within 1500 feet of each other. They went for a variance so the current Gasco and the super wawa can coexist. That final variance was given last week.  
 
It is rumored that the owner of the Gasco contacted wawa twice about selling his station to them but they never responded.
 
Our volunteer engineer finally got a copy of what the wawa plan would look like at the yard property. He laid that in on their existing property including the Gasco property. It fit there with more surrounding space and had the added advantage, as you stated, to have center turn lanes from both roads which would improve traffic flow.
 
The zoning board still gave approval with the excuse that their decision will result in an addition property available to improve and produce rateables.
 
One of our arguments was traffic congestion which according to any traffic engineer is dead last on the list of reaons why not to build something. There are those who forecast that people will die in traffic accidents at this intersection due to the additional congestion. Add to that the fact that many many school buses use these two roads morning and afternoon, and it will  only be a matter of time until a student is killed in a traffic accident. The county traffic engineer is not happy with the plan but there really isn't much the county or state can or will do.
 
There are still environmental issues that need to be addressed such as the wetlands at the rear of the property and the creek back there as well. These are in danger of pollution if their undergroung tanks should begin to leak. Then there is the mile and a half of ies that are still in the ground that would need to be disposed of. Several shows on RFDTVs Trains and Locomotives have made the comment that railroa ties cannot be burned or buried due to the chemicals that were used to treat them. They must be left on the ground at the site where they are located. Some have told me that wawa will have them sent to the incinerator.
 
Attempted discussions with wawa have proved fruitless. They are who they are and they feel they are above all others and they can do what ever they want to and if you do not like it, they will just sue you until you have no more funds and drop the case or agree with them.
 
Sad, really sad!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Dec 1st, 2006, 2:13pm
Learn more about WAWA from this link: http://www.wawa.com/wawaprofile/pro-whatsname.asp
They are a very strong company as Ed mentions with a great deal of asstes at their hands.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 2nd, 2006, 7:19pm
I was at the station today for our annual hayride, today and tomorrow 10-3, and learned that wawa plans to have the super traffic stopper open by the end of next year.  
 
At the zoning hearing, a resident got up to protest the approval and he was told by a board member to sit down because nothing he was going to say was going to change their minds. Sounds like they have a good reason not to listen to any protesters. Wonder what that could be?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: Dec 2nd, 2006, 9:00pm

 
       Hmmmmmm........what could that reason be??  hmmm......  Could it be possible that perhaps WaWa slipped a few items of American currency into the pockets of our "good and honest" board members?   Nahhhhhhhh not in New Jersey.  -Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 3rd, 2006, 10:26am
Now Chris. Maybe the zoning board is really looking out for the well being of the tax payers. And maybe reindeer really do fly, and the Easter Bunny is real.
 
On a separate subject. What do you think the possibilty would be of lightening up your organization of one of those little locos in the woods? I seem to recall that one is from a gravel pit and the other is from a sand pit that used to be in NJ. I would guess from their size that they are gas engines rather than diesels although Bhudda (?) used to make a real fine little diesel a long time ago.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: Dec 3rd, 2006, 8:36pm
Mr. Ed
 
 
    I`ll do some more research on those engines for ya, I know they are all 2 footers. Like you said though, I`m pretty sure they are gasoline engines and came from sand pits in the area. They may have come from Nixon gravel and sand, which is where our 3 foot Plymouth #5 came from, but dont hold me to that. I shall find out though.  As far as parting with them, unfortunatley thats really not my call. I just replace ties and drive spikes and machine parts if you catch my drift. But I`ll throw the idea out on your behalf. Take care-     Chris p.s.- i WILL scrape that tank car down sometime before im 30yrs old i promise  haha.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 4th, 2006, 4:01pm
Thanks Chris, I appreciate it.  
 
My spiking days are over after shoulder surgery last month due to, you got it, spiking rail in May! Ah. To be thirty again.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: Dec 4th, 2006, 8:44pm

   Actually I`m 20, which gives me 10 yrs on the tank car thing. hahaha.  Im sure I wont be spiking anymore in a few years if I keep going at this rate. The day you do it it isnt bad. but the next morning.......
      BTW, do you own the ROW going towards Mount Holly, or is that the township? Would be cool to someday see an excursion train go down the old RoW. Take care    -Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 6th, 2006, 1:55pm
That is all under the federal Rails to Trails program but we have permission to put down a single rail to run excursions which we want to do someday. We have 1.5 miles of rail and everything to lay them except for ties. And we have some of those that are being donated to us but we have no way, or anyone young enough, to get them or musle them onto truck.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Dec 6th, 2006, 6:57pm
What's wrong with Karl  
On a separate note, I had a dream or 12 of the Pemberton line being re-activiated from the boro to Mt. Holly.  Too bad those were dreams.
Hey Ed, why in the blazes did the 206 overpass get removed in '87?
Was it Conrail or the state that removed it?
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Dec 6th, 2006, 8:06pm
The casino buses to/from Atlantic City couldn't clear it, and for some it was cheaper for them to take 206 vs the Parkway.  So my guess is the State.
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: Dec 6th, 2006, 9:39pm
   
           Just think about that, an excursion train running from the station at Pemberton to the station in Mount Holly. How cool would that be. One can dream.....
 
       Mr. Ed, if you have the source and money for ties, and the truck to do it, me and my friend Eric from Pine Creek can certainly supply the muscle. Like I said, unfortunatley my work schedule is crazy now (and will be getting even more crazy as winter approaches. Water mains and subzero temperatures dont co-exist too well ) Maybe in Spring when things die down a little its a possibility. Are these used ties? I know from a friend that theres a landscaper somewhere down in South Jersey that sells used ties for like $10 a piece. I never even knew you could buy used ties like that. Take care   -Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 7th, 2006, 1:11pm
We'd love to run to Mt. Holly station but aside from the lack of ties there is one other thing missing that precludes us from running that far. And that item is the bridge that used to go over Route 206. It was taken out years ago because it needed repair and it was very narrow and very low. But I belive that the run from the station to Rt 206 is 4 or 5 miles. About the distance Strasburg runs on. That would make a great excursion line.
 
I am planning on taking you up on the offer to move ties! Can't wait until spring!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: ETSRRCo Posted on: Dec 8th, 2006, 11:11pm
HEY HEY HEY!!!! Dont you be leaving me out of this kind of stuff Chris!!! I want to build track to!!! So do you guys have a truck for the ties? Also why are you finding such a problem in getting ties? Could it be the fact that standard gauge ties are $28. So if there are 2,800 ties in a mile and you have 1.5 miles of rail which gives you 4,200 ties. So that is about $117,600. Could that number be the problem?
 
-Eric
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 9th, 2006, 12:51pm
Could be! I haven't calculated how many we would need but from what I've been told, these are used, good three sided ties. But since we have no healthy old guys to move these, it is a problem. And this problem will have to wait until spring time. I just came back from the station and it is too cold to be working outdoors any more this year.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: ETSRRCo Posted on: Dec 9th, 2006, 9:18pm
NAH!!! We are going out tomorrow to replace a broken rail and ties in our yard, but I think we would be of more help to you in the Spring. See ya around.
Posted by: Housedavid1 Posted on: Dec 11th, 2006, 9:12am
4 or 5 miles is quite the run.  Might want to start small and work your way up to that.  A half mile each way would be outstanding and would allow you to keep the ticket price low enough to develop the business.  This is where embracing the WaWa might come in handy.  Traffic will be increase and so will your visibility.  Take advantage of that.  Even if only using the cabooses and the diesel, it might be a place for a dad to take his kid on occasion.  And then take more than one ride while there.  Repeat business is key.  And of course a Santa event.  
 
I checked the WaWa site for data on their grant program.  Might be a stretch, but its possible you might be able to use one of those categories they show.  Again, look at how to take advantage of WaWa.  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 11th, 2006, 2:08pm
I'm a step ahead of you. I sent Wawa an e-mail asking for a grant. A grant of land. Hey, you never know until you ask. So I asked for the yard as a donation. Tax deductible of course since we are a licensed non-profit organization.
 
If we did run an excursion it probably would be with our GE diesel and the N5C caboose since it is the closest to being utilized. And both have roller bearings, not that it matters on our own rails but you  never know when the government may decide to run freight back into Dix through our little slice of heaven. And then there is the flat car that could be converted to a bench car without too much trouble.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Dec 11th, 2006, 9:18pm
is there any likelihood the military would do go back to McGuire AFB/ Fort Dix?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 12th, 2006, 4:26pm
It is something they have been talking about doing for years. The single largest hurdle is the bridge over 206. The old one was too low and narrow so the new one would have to be adequate to keep traffic flowing as it is today. I have heard nothing from anyone that this is even being considered any longer. The alternative is bringing the line to Dix through Lakehurst using an old line outside the base. It is a longer route but may be cheaper because there is no bridge to build.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Dec 12th, 2006, 4:45pm
would a grade crossing be unacceptable?
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Dec 12th, 2006, 5:12pm
206 is too busy of a road to have a grade crossing. I think having a longer route would actually be better for the operation, IMO.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Dec 13th, 2006, 12:11am
Hey guys this is New Jersey.   Our politicians don't think about logic, they think about who they can payback for their campaign loyalties.
Holding or diverting traffic on Route 206 would be a no brainer in their world.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 13th, 2006, 4:10pm
A grade crossing would mean they have to cut the existing roadbed down about 12' to get to grade. Since there is so much commercial and residential development around the trail, they would have to buy a lot of ground to grade it out or build a lot of retaining walls. Either way it would probably be cheaper to build the bridge. Representative Saxton was supporting this route but I haven't heard anything in a long time so he may have thrown in the towel.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: robertjohndavis Posted on: Dec 13th, 2006, 11:47pm
Wow, this is a nice piece to have. Any idea who owned it before it got to Roebling?
 
Rob
 
 
on Oct 6th, 2006, 2:37pm, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The (supposedly) rare tapered top hopper from Roebling steel. Lots of surface rust. This puppy will take a ton of elbow grease to get back into shape.

Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 14th, 2006, 1:49pm
As far as I know, all of the Roebling stock was bought by them but it is not a topic I have had any large discussions about with anyone at the museum. Why do you ask? Is it rare?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: robertjohndavis Posted on: Dec 14th, 2006, 2:21pm
Yes, very few two-bay hoppers are left, especially given how many there once were. The acidic nature of coal did these in.
 
I would bet the Roebling did not buy this new.
 
Rob
 
 
on Dec 14th, 2006, 1:49pm, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
As far as I know, all of the Roebling stock was bought by them but it is not a topic I have had any large discussions about with anyone at the museum. Why do you ask? Is it rare?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Dec 28th, 2006, 11:24am
I had a discussion this morning with a fellow Pem Twp resident who is not a railfan.  He brought up the turntable in town and how it should be saved.  I explained about the WaWa deal,  and he opined that they should not be able to build a gas station there because of DEP regs.  It seems that it is too near an unnamed  stream, and the Rancocas creek.   Spillage would despoil the ground water and the streams.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 29th, 2006, 11:11am
You are correct regarding the stream's relative closeness to the proposed underground tanks. But remember we are talking about Wawa. A company that has more money than god. I am not going to depend on the EPA or DEP to stop them from building thier station. They have already said they will be open by the end of 2007.
 
Time will tell.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Dec 31st, 2006, 4:01pm
 Perhaps it's time for one or more of our local television stations to venture over to the Pemberton railroad historic trust and tell them all of this that has happened?
  Not for nothing, but maybe  someone can drop a line to the govenor's office?
  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.   I would make these people never forget the Pemberton Historic Trust.
  Don't forget history, the British Empire was defeated by a small, somewhat organized bunch of renegades who later became of founding fathers.
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Dec 31st, 2006, 4:39pm
Hmmm, nothing ventured, nothing gained?  Interesting, since some people have accepted that fighting WaWa and their money is a losing proposition from what I see in the previous posts.
 
Well, I HAVE taken it upon myself to contact the DEP.  I have also bothered to contact the History Channel "Save our History" portion of their website.  That was Friday, so I dont expect a reply right away, although DEP did acknowledge that they received my e-mail.
As one of the stalwart supporters, Mr Ed, sez, we'll see.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jan 1st, 2007, 1:00pm
Way to go guys! We have contacted the state historic commsion but historic preservation is way down at the bottom of the budget. We did have a grant from them several years ago to buy the ground, but by the time the request got processed, Wawa had an option on the ground. It looks like the only way we are getting the ground is if Wawa gave it to us or the state used eminent domain in which case the ground would be turned over to the township. The previous republican administration did every thing they could to destroy us because of our president's previous '70s political history. When one of the council members ran for mayor, he had a cartoon showing trains and Mike wearing a bandits mask again mistating the amount of money spent on the museum, none of which came from the township taxpayers! And Mike wasn't even running for office. Shows you where this guys head was! No wonder he lost!  
 
Later!
 
Happy New Year!
 
Mr. Ed
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: Feb 25th, 2007, 8:32pm
Mr. Ed-
 
       Its almost March.....one month closer to spring track laying!!!  haha  Whats been going on out there lately?   -Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 26th, 2007, 10:16am
Funny you should mention track laying. Back in April when we laid down the sections on the siding, it turns out I tore up my shoulder which resulted in surgery in November. Guess who won't be swinging a spike hammer anymore? The weather hasn't been cooperative either. And since I lost my job and my company car in January, I have only been up there for the meetings. But since spring is right around the corner I figure we will begin another season of work. We are still in need of usable ties before we can lay any rail. And the plan is still to lay the permanent rail in front of the station and proceed down the trail as far as we can including the switch for the siding. Once we get that down, we will have to shuffle the equipment around to get the diesel at the back end of the siding instead of at the head of the siding. That should be fun!
 
I'll keep you posted here as it happens.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: Feb 28th, 2007, 9:15pm
Mr. Ed-
 
        Sounds good. Two things I also want to look into on your behalf...... one being a donation of ballast-- Over the last few years Stavola Sand and Gravel has been very generous to Pine Creek with donations of stone, usually 50 tons at a clip. Granted its smaller stone, like 1 inch or 3/4 inch stone (probably stuff they have in mass abundance) but if its free.......still makes good ballast though, easy to work with.
       The other is a backhoe for doing grading work for the tracks-to-be.  I work for NJ American Water Company, on the road crew.  Although all of Pemberton isnt American Water territory, we do have a small area in Pemberton that we cover. Our backhoe operator (who is also our Union vice-president) wants to look into the possibilty of using our machine on occasion for your benefit if you would like.  Not sure how much grading work needs to be done, but if there is grading to be done hopefully we can help out.  Nothing set in stone of course, but definitley stuff I`ll try to gather more info about. Let me know what you think.   Take care      -Chris
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Feb 28th, 2007, 10:25pm
on Feb 26th, 2007, 10:16am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Funny you should mention track laying. Back in April when we laid down the sections on the siding, it turns out I tore up my shoulder which resulted in surgery in November. Guess who won't be swinging a spike hammer anymore? The weather hasn't been cooperative either. And since I lost my job and my company car in January, I have only been up there for the meetings. But since spring is right around the corner I figure we will begin another season of work. We are still in need of usable ties before we can lay any rail. And the plan is still to lay the permanent rail in front of the station and proceed down the trail as far as we can including the switch for the siding. Once we get that down, we will have to shuffle the equipment around to get the diesel at the back end of the siding instead of at the head of the siding. That should be fun!
 
I'll keep you posted here as it happens.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Sorry to hear about that problem you encoured.  That has got to be painful.
I guess that Green Cab Elite maybe swinging the old hammer with Karl.
I have not read anything more on the WAWA situation since your last report.  However, I wouldn't been all that surprised if they are clear on schedule for their umpteenth WAWA.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 1st, 2007, 10:49am
Chris:
Heck yes we would appreciate any material and/or labor that could come our way.
 
And as far as Wawa goes. We are not out of options yet. I have sent them an e-mail asking that if they really do mean to be a good neighbor as they say on their web site, they should donate the ground to the Trust and stay where they are and put thier super Wawa there. If you go to their site and click on customer service, you will find a contact us page where you can send them a message. If enough people do this maybe they will get the message. I also reminded them that a donation of such magnatude would be a really nice tax write-off for them.
 
My participation at the museum has dropped off severly since I was let go from my job at the beginning of January. I am using my in-laws extra car but I do not want to put a lot of miles on it so I stay home and surf the web looking for a decent job.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 2nd, 2007, 9:40am
   I see no reason why people shouldn't send mother WAWA some creative e-mails.  
    Some might say it's a waste of time but if nobody tries how will you know for sure.  
     I say nothing ventured/ nothing gained.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 2nd, 2007, 10:21am
I agree. The more the merrier!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 17th, 2007, 5:09pm
Yo Ed,
    When does the new township council get sworn in in Pemberton?
Remember that comment I made about eminent domain?   Not for nothing, but if these new members are railroad friendly, maybe some eminent domain proceedings against WAWA property may begin?
    Also, have you any updates on the other WAWA write in campaign?
          ...........Eddie
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 18th, 2007, 1:58pm
The new council has been sworn in but they are in no way leaning toward making Wawa mad. They still see this as a chance to increase ratables in the township. The chances of anything changing is very slim to none!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 20th, 2007, 5:03pm
Typical Jersey politicians.  Greedy, stupid and corrupt.
How's things faring on your end Ed?
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Mar 20th, 2007, 8:53pm
Ah, me.  The Gloom & Doom is back on track.  Aren't we being a little judgmental about newly elected officials in a township where you don't live?  
I don't want to sound critical of you all, we're on the same side, but let's give these folks a chance.
Peace.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Mar 20th, 2007, 9:21pm
its kinda tough, considering every morning you turn the radio on and hear about all the corruption in the state.  the state is a mess.  I live in the next town over from pemberton.  
 
while you are right, we shouldn't judge, we really don't expect better at this point either.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 21st, 2007, 9:16am
Eddie;
I am still looking for work in my chosen field but it is getting frustrating since it is such a small field. My former employer has paid for counseling at one of those companies that wants you to change professions, but at my age I cannot make do with an entry level position. And since I am using the in-laws extra car, I do not want nor can I afford to drive it a lot so my trips to the museum are for meetings only. And I have visited every one of those internet sites like monster, and careers, career builder, and a few specifically for the refrigeration industry. I filled out all the information about my field and what I want to do yet they still send me openings in retail and telemarketing positions. They just don't get it!  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 21st, 2007, 11:30pm
      Andy  S.    That's just too bad you do not like my comments above.  Skip over them if they offend you.
      
       Ed..have you talked with Karl on openings at his day time job?
      
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 9:19am
No, but I have spoken with others in that neck of the woods. Something will come up. There is always McDonalds!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: 90Fan Posted on: Mar 24th, 2007, 2:01pm
on Mar 20th, 2007, 9:21pm, green_elite_cab wrote:       (Click here for original message)
its kinda tough, considering every morning you turn the radio on and hear about all the corruption in the state.  the state is a mess.  I live in the next town over from pemberton.

 
Tell me about it. McGreevey was gay and Corzine is a complete moron who is not capable of running a state government. But it's not just NJ. No, Philly's even worse. And in DC? Congress and Bush are at a stalemate. Nothing's going to happen at all. Can't we get some decent politicians around here who can actually do something good?
 
Okay, back on topic now .
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Apr 29th, 2007, 11:09am
Hey guys!
 
My board of review for Life Scout  is on May 16, and because of the age limits in scouts, and me being pretty much on the line for all requirements (i turn 18 this december)  They have also given me the oppertunity to start planning and to start writing up my Eagle scout project for approval.
 
I know in the past i've mentioned possibly helping, and now is the time i can begin all the processes and such to come down and help.  
 
If anyone could give me a number to call so i can start setting things up, I'd much appreciate this!
 
I need to find things out like a specific job that the kids in my scout troop can perform, such as helping restore something, laying tracks, raise money, as well as safety issues involved, and any extra materials i'll need to bring to accomplish the task, all that good stuff.
 
my email is GreenElite_499@hotmail.com, so don't hesitate to email me with any questions
 
I hope to be in contact with you guys soon!
 
Thanks,  
Chris
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 29th, 2007, 11:27am
Chris give the station a call at 609-894-0546 on Wednesdays, Fridays or on the weekend and leave your information for Mike Tamn, the president. We are experiencing some difficulties getting station volunteers on the weekend so call before noon if you can. Since I lost my job I can no longer afford to go up as much as I used to so I cannot coordinate anything with you.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: May 3rd, 2007, 5:47pm
yeah i called them yesterday when i got home from school, but i only got the machine.  hopefully i'll get called back.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 4th, 2007, 9:29am
You will. May take a few days. The boss is pretty busy with the fight with Wawa. It is really amazing how much trouble they go to even when there is nothing to fight for. It is like so many other companies out there. The CEO sure has no idea of what is going on in his company or I am sure there would be massive firings. Their real estate and legal departments are filled with people making work for themselves, not looking to the benefit of the company.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: May 4th, 2007, 3:53pm
alright thats good.
 
How is all that Wawa stuff going?
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: May 4th, 2007, 11:54pm
    I spoke with Karl the other day.  I mentioned to him that Ed Was out of work.
Karl said he didn't know that.
     Karl did say that WAWA can not build on all of the adjacent property  because of historic status of the yard.  Karl mentions that the rails go right up to the old window building.  WAWA can only build beyond where the tracks lie.
     Interesting turn of events.  And yes, the fight with WAWa is certainly not over yet.
     Karl said to give him a call Ed.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 5th, 2007, 10:50am
I'll see him at the meeting next week.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: ETSRRCo Posted on: May 8th, 2007, 3:26pm
So does this mean that there is still a chance that you will be able to use the old yard site?
 
-Eric
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: May 8th, 2007, 10:36pm
Yes it does Eric.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 9th, 2007, 11:04am
Not quite true. Wawa owns the ground so after all efforts are exhausted and approvals given, they can do whatever they want with any part of it. What they are discussing is a possbility of the sale of what they will not be using. If this in fact comes to fruition, it would include the turntable pit and possibly the freight house foundation. And depending on the driveway placement, the sheds in the back of the property might remain. Gone will be all of the foundations at the front of the property, the general store, the hay press building and of course the big building where they built pre-fabricated homes which we wanted to use as the main museum. We would have a substantial piece of ground and yes there is still quite a bit of track in there. We were told that the PRR ripped up all of the track and covered the ties with soil. That may not be true. But we are still awaiting Wawa's decision on what they want to do.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: May 9th, 2007, 5:33pm
Looks like i'll be heading down there this friday to talk with Mr. Tamn.   looks like things are working out so far.
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: May 9th, 2007, 9:59pm
Hi all-
 
       Hey, at this point having some of the yard is better Wawa getting all of it. Hope Wawa finds some generous spot in their loving heart for it.   -Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 10th, 2007, 9:56am
My thoughts exactly. I am already envisioning how to tie in the siding with the rail in the yard so we can get the trucks out of sight and maybe even get some of the other cars in the yard.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: May 11th, 2007, 6:08pm
Well i was just down at the station, and it looks like I'm going to be patching holes and painting up that old wood caboose at the very end (uh oh, this is gonna be a big project, lol), if i can get my project approved.   I got a good look at it after he suggested the project, and so i assume he means for us to put boards over the holes, and repaint areas to make it look nicer eternally.    
 
now to wade through all the scout commitees.  I get my life rank on wednesday, and they have agreed to let me submit my plan for approval on the same day.  Once its approved, i'll have to call back and see when i can come out and get to work with my troop.  
 
I'll keep you guys updated.  
 
Chris
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: May 13th, 2007, 1:57am
         I can read that your putting your money where your mouth is.  
Good for you Chris.   I think if you stay with this project, you'll gain invaluable work experience on the railroad line here.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 13th, 2007, 10:27am
That is an old CNJ caboose. There are two other examples around. One is at the defunct museum in Phillipsburg and I seem to recall seeing a picture of it on the internet. There is another one in Blackwood NJ that has been restored and sitting on a short stick of rail. When I first saw it I thought the plywood sides were something done later in it's life rather than put the shiplap planking back on. I since see that it is how it was built.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 13th, 2007, 10:32am
I remembered I had the photo of the one at Phillipsburg. Here it is.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: May 13th, 2007, 8:31pm
yeah, where the steps intentionally removed so that people couldn't climb on the equipment? i noticed the steps were missing on alot of the cars.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 14th, 2007, 9:56am
No. I think that is exactly how we got it. If the steps were removed from other cars, they are stored somewhere that I am not aware of.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
PS. Here is a photo of the car in discussion.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: May 16th, 2007, 9:56pm
Alright! I've got my Life rank, and i  just need to submit my plan for final approval by the Burlington County Council and my local committee.  
 
I only really needed to make 2 major changes to the plan.  While Mr. Tamn suggested that some of the other scouts could help fix benches if they couldn't work on the caboose, but its recommended i drop this so that the project can stay on task with its main goal.  
 
I also need to adjust some of my avenues of supplies and cash flow, but thats not a problem.  the problem there was, while i have enough money to go out and buy the nails and plywood to patch most of the holes,  they say it doesn't necessarily demonstrate leadership to go and buy it yourself, so i'll probably start having to collect donations, and some suggested a bake sale, or somthing of that nature. I'll have to check my options.  
 
I also need to find out extra ridiculously small but important things, that maybe you guys can help me with. I'll probably give Mr. Tamn another call as well.
 
Basically, i need to know
 
1.)  the Bathroom situation.  Very important.  I think there is only one in the station, but if there are any others that would be available, its good to know
 
2.) Who might have First aid kits, if the station has one, what does it include? where would it be so that i can go grab it on a moments notice
 
3.) where the phones are, or who is carrying a phone in case an emergency call needs to be made.
 
Any of these kinds of details I'd need to know. Its very important that the scout motto "be prepared" is followed to the letter in the write up.  
 
so once i tie up these details, i should be able to get out there!
 
Chris
 
 
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 17th, 2007, 10:18am
There is indeed a bathroom in the station but as you mentioned, if there is no volunteer in there, like last Saturday, you will need to either find a big tree or go to the Dunkin Donuts or Burger King.
 
There is a first aid kit in the section house but finding it might be a bit of a challenge.
 
There is a phone in the station but again if there is no volunteer on duty..............
 
As an aside, the first project I tackled when I arrived several years ago was to strip the N6B (circa 1900) down to the bare chassis that you see in the fenced in area in black paint. When I began it did indeed look like a caboose without a roof or cupola but all of the wood had rotted away to the point of being a danger to anyone who entered it. So on several Saturdays and Sundays, Tom and I tore off and disposed of all of the old lumber. Mike and I had discussed doing the one that you will be working on and I had suggested that instead of patching and painting it would be easier to remove the entire side and replace the old plywood and batten. It might be a bit more expensive but it would be done the right way the first time. But you must keep in mind that since there isn't a steady flow of funds and volunteers, no project will get done quickly. Therefore a patch job may be all that will be done to that one for the time being.
 
Let me know if you have any other questions.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: May 17th, 2007, 5:18pm
Maybe i can arrange for a volunteer to be available, or atleast, a copy of the keys to the station (a scout is trustworthy, lol, and i know that anything that could happen would be my responsibility).
 
Yeah, the wood on that thing looked pretty bad. It looks like it is still holding together, even though it has some holes.  Its starting to worry me now that you mention it.  Part of the caboose he wanted painted was the roof, but if the caboose is stucturally weak, it makes me wonder how safe it would be to have some of the scouts up there scraping and painting
 
If it is still sound though, i suppose patching it up and paintint it could atleast stabilize it, right?  I guess thats the most imporant part for now.  
 
 
Out of curiosity, what kind of work would go intoactually taking the old wood out and putting new stuff in?  
 
I'm going to have to stop by again and get my own pictures, as well as to make sure i catch all iotas of possibilites something dangerous is present, since i wasn't there for all to long the other friday.
Posted by: caboose9 Posted on: May 18th, 2007, 10:21am
green_elite_cab wrote, "I'm going to stop by and get my own pictures."
 
 
Hi,
 
If you get the photos I'd like to see one or two of them.  I have asked for a jpeg or print of the caboose in the past, but to no avail.
 
Thanks, Roger, born & raised in Oak Tree
 
P.S. I have a listing of some NJ cabooses.  A note to me at "@beyondbb.com" will get you a copy.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 18th, 2007, 10:49am
I have never been on the roof. But as it was told to me, Karl was up there during transit from the last site moving overhead wires as needed.
 
As far as the sides go, when I looked at them last time, it would not be difficult to remove the old plywood and replace it with new outdoor plywood that had been primed and painted on both sides and batten. But there is the framing underneath that would have to be looked at once the old plywood is removed. There are places where the bottom timber can be seen and it is in need of repair. But this too can be patched as needed if it is structurally sound. I had planned on coming up Saturday but the weatherman says it is going to rain all day so that ends that plan.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 5th, 2007, 10:18am
Chris it has been three weeks since your last post. How is the caboose project coming?
 
I was there last Saturday putting more red paint on the N6B. I have other commitments for the next few Saturdays so I will not be there in the near future.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jun 5th, 2007, 3:25pm
things are difficult.  I got the plan approove preliminarily, and i just had to make a few changes. I keep trying to get in contact with the station and Mr. Tamn about the changes, but i have no luck.  I can't find his number that he gave me, and so i have been leaving messages at the station.  When i last talked to him, he suggested we have younger scouts work on the benches because of the size of the caboose, but it was felt that this would be to much extra work. I also need an estimate on how much paint it might take to cover that thing, so that I know what to ask for if i go around looking for donations.   Once i have that part covered, i just need to send the final plan in to the burlington county council, which does not take long.  
 
so yeah, that, and i'll probably start heading over to get better measurements on those holes and panels, so i know how much wood exactly to buy.    
 
Once i get all of this taken care of, it pretty much comes down to planning an exact date so that i can get as many people out there as possible.  once this little road block is cleared, we'll be out there not long after school is out.  
 
Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 6th, 2007, 10:41am
We are having problems getting volunteers to work the station. It was closed again last Saturday. Just keep leaving messages and he will get back to you.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jun 16th, 2007, 9:51pm
 My wife and I traveled over to the station today.  We were hoping to see Chris, Karl or Ed there.  That was not to happen.   There was a few old timers there and John.
  John opened up the station for us and showed us some of the newer memorablia there on display.
  John shared with us that WAWA and the township council have backed off for now, stating that they messed up in the arguments in a few places.
  John also expects them to be back and more prepared.   However, just listening to him gave us the impression he really knows his stuff.  I guess working for a major Burlington County engineering firm doesn't hurt either.
  So where were you guys?  Huh?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 17th, 2007, 7:13pm
I was up there three weeks ago painting the N6B. But since I am out of work and gas ain't cheap, I have to stay away for the time being. I figure it costs me close to $25.00 for the round trip.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Aug 8th, 2007, 8:47pm
Hey guys!
 
just wanted to let everyone know the eagle project on the caboose is just taking a long time to get approved.  the advancement comittee wants it to be perfect for the burlignton county council, and so they are making it rather painfully slow to be completed.  Luckily, I now can say i have a better estimate of when i can get out here.  the early weeks of september, or maybe the end of august, work can begin. as far as i know, only the 7-9 of september would be bad working days, as i have an Order of the Arrow Ordeal i need to attend.  
 
I have the final packet typed up, and i just need to make a few minor changes so that it is perfect.    
 
I know i probably should have been calling and keeping you guys updated more often, but other then alot of rewrites and other deals, nothing new has really occurred.  
 
sorry about the long silence
 
Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 9th, 2007, 9:53am
That's OK. I haven't been up there in months myself. First I was unemployed and couldn't afford the gas, then I was employed but the hours were too long to allow any extracurricular activities, and now I am unemployed again but without unemployment benefits this time. Just keep in touch with Mike so he can schedule access for your project.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Aug 30th, 2007, 5:19pm
I have an imporatnat question.   Right now i'm doing the final writeup thingy before it gets to council.  There is much concern over the roof of the caboose.  They really want it from someone who has worked on these things to say that its safe.  They saw the pictures of the outside of it, and they are less then confident in it's structural integrity.  
 
As long as one of the volunteers at the station say its safe, i can put that in my final writeup.  I'm fairly certain this is the last time i need to go to the drawing board, and other work and things i have fore trhe summer have delayed me far longer than I had anticipated.  
 
I'm just hoping i can get it all finished up soon.  All summer i've been doing only paper work.  
 
thank you for your help
Chris.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 31st, 2007, 11:02am
I am the only one from the PTHT that reads these boards and I like others am just a volunteer with no authority on anything. You would have to contact Mike regarding any safety issues. I can tell you that Karl rode on the top of it to clear overhead wires when it was delivered.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed  
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Sep 16th, 2007, 11:02pm
as usual the people who make me keep submitting it are bein a pain in my side.  I might not even do the roof at all now, even though i've been told this is an important part of it.
 
the commitee who is looking at it just keep adding things.  some of the stuff is just getting downright frustrating, since parts that fromt he beginning that have been fine by them, now have to be rewritten and they want me to get climbing harnesses for this thing.    
 
Now i think they are just asking to much from me. I don't even know where i'm going to find climbing equipment, and its a waste to go buy these things that i'll only use once for this project.  
 
I've called Mr.Tamn and such already to start asking about stuff, and some people i know who own these things, so hopefully i can borrow this stuff.
 
I think though, I might be allowed to let the volunteers at the museum go up there (since it doesn't have to be just scouts working on the project), but yeah, i'm not sure i know what to do now.  I just hope they don't make me change it again. Hopefully all this paper work will end soon.  I think its taken longer to get it all signed through than it will take to finish the project.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 17th, 2007, 9:39am
Welcome to corporate America! Where forms, rules and regulations are the norm! I didn't know the plan included the roof. Now I know why you have been asking about it. The only time I discussed this with Mike, he said you were going to do the sides or maybe it was just the side facing the trail. It has been a while. But if the roof is to be done by our volunteers, then that would make your job easier. I did get some drawings from a gentleman and I e-mailed them to Mike. He had asked if I could locate these drawings for dimensional purposes. The problem is that over the years many things changed on these cars so that drawing is probably not worth much. I would suggest that dimensions be taken directly from the car. The drawing also shows the car with shiplap planking, not the plywood and batten strips currently on the car which is on all three examples that I have seen. The other two are the one in Phillipsburg and one in Blackwood, NJ. The plywood was a lot easier to install than the planking.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: DRGW_K-28 Posted on: Sep 17th, 2007, 7:20pm
on May 13th, 2007, 10:27am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
That is an old CNJ caboose. There are two other examples around. One is at the defunct museum in Phillipsburg and I seem to recall seeing a picture of it on the internet. There is another one in Blackwood NJ that has been restored and sitting on a short stick of rail. When I first saw it I thought the plywood sides were something done later in it's life rather than put the shiplap planking back on. I since see that it is how it was built.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
 
There are two more. Ex Central Railroad of New Jersey #91155 is in active service at the New Jersey Museum of Transportation/Pine Creek Railroad and one of her sisters whose number is not known and is not in service. It may be on three foot gauge trucks but she is still rolling (91155 that is). It was produced in 1874 as a boxcar and converted to a caboose around 1900. it was retired by the CNJ in 1972 and NJMT got the car the same year. It is the oldest operating piece of railroad equipment in New Jersey. A picture of the car can be viewed here: http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/15986/1049595418031568960S600x600Q85.jpg The plywood siding was done in the later years of these cars lives on the CNJ. Some lasted to the end with the tongue and grove siding but all had it at one time or another. I think that another one of these cars or maybe two survive in Jim Thorpe, Pa. One with the tongue and grove siding. On another note I have a question for you Pemberton boys. How come you are NEVER open! I have been there on Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays between the posted hours and you are NEVER open. What gives?
 
-Eric
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Sep 17th, 2007, 7:57pm
AFIK, the volunteers to operate the museum are few in number, partly due to bozos like myself who have the time, but just "never get around to it".  See also the "What do you think of the BR&W?" thread.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Sep 17th, 2007, 10:29pm
on Sep 17th, 2007, 9:39am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Welcome to corporate America! Where forms, rules and regulations are the norm! I didn't know the plan included the roof. Now I know why you have been asking about it. The only time I discussed this with Mike, he said you were going to do the sides or maybe it was just the side facing the trail. It has been a while. But if the roof is to be done by our volunteers, then that would make your job easier. I did get some drawings from a gentleman and I e-mailed them to Mike. He had asked if I could locate these drawings for dimensional purposes. The problem is that over the years many things changed on these cars so that drawing is probably not worth much. I would suggest that dimensions be taken directly from the car. The drawing also shows the car with shiplap planking, not the plywood and batten strips currently on the car which is on all three examples that I have seen. The other two are the one in Phillipsburg and one in Blackwood, NJ. The plywood was a lot easier to install than the planking.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 

 
Yeah, i'm feeling better about this stuff. My dad has volunteered to work on the roof, and I think i can muster up some other over-18 individuals on top of the museum's volunteers to help with the roof.  most of the safety stuff is regarding to non-adults, so by just saying adults will go up there, i can by pass this problem.
 
Now the only rush is to get out there before its to cold to paint.  hopefully global warming will be on my side this fall, and give us another indian summer. I think things will be alright.  
 
I just need to get Mr. Tamn's signature (the paperwork now is new), and my scoutmaster's signature, and a signature from the committee (if they approve the plan, and they likely will this time around) now.  If I can get these things set up sometime before the 25th, it would be perfect, since council will be looking at project plans on that day, and i should find out if its ready to go that next weekend.  
 
I know I have a long weekend in october, and i just need to start checking with Mr. Tamn to start finding good dates to do the work.  
 
the scariest thing now is fundraising and donations.  They want me to raise money for the project, but i'm starting to think i'm going to have to use my own money for the job, simply because i can get the money i need faster. I don't think that will be a problem though, as long as i still carry out the fundraising plan, since i might be able to get my money back, and if i have extra, i'll donate it to the museum.  
 
We'll have to see how things go, but i think things will finally go forward.
 
Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 18th, 2007, 9:42am
Chris, when it looked like I was going to do that caboose, I had planned on priming and painting both sides of the plywood at home in the garage and transporting them to the station. This would eliminate the need to accomplish the task in the warm weather. And by priming and painting both sides of the plywood, it would last a lot longer.
 
Eric:
The station is open whenever we can get volunteers to man the visitors desk inside. Unfortunaltely that is becoming more and more difficult to accomplish. We did have one lady who was under a state program where she got minimum wage to open the station on Wednesdays and Fridays but that program was a temporary one and she had to find another job. The weekends were up to a handful of others that have given up. We are hoping to tap that well of resources next door, the over 55 community, to see if we can find enough volunteers to get the place opened again.
 
It is upsetting that I am sitting here with a lot of time on my hands but no funds to pay the gas to get up there and do something productive. Shame I am not closer to the place, or the place isn't closer to me.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: caboose9 Posted on: Sep 18th, 2007, 12:04pm
Hi,
 
Here are a few woodies reported as CNJ:
 
#?, US 40, White Marsh, MD;
 
#?, Station, Boonton, NJ;
 
#?, Depot, Pemberton, NJ;
 
#?, Larry's Trains, Midland Park, NJ#?, Rosedale Nursery, Winslow, NJ;
 
#?, Mel Venti, 101 N. Chester Rd., E. Goshen Twp., NJ, for sale, does this one have a cupola?
 
#?, Ice Cream Shop, Depot, Latrobe, PA, http://cencalrails.railfan.net/cnjunknownsrk.jpg ;
 
(Anyone have numbers for the above CNJ cabooses?)
 
91145, was at Whippany, NJ, reported as "gone",  where is it now?
 
91155 & 91245, Pine Creek RR, Farmingdale, NJ;
 
91197, Phillipsburg, NJ;
 
91309, Buckingham, PA, does this one have a cupola? &  
 
91343, Jim Thorpe, PA.
 
Additions & corrections greatly appreciated!
 
Cheers, Roger, my train of thought is a caboose
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Sep 18th, 2007, 4:18pm
on Sep 18th, 2007, 9:42am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Chris, when it looked like I was going to do that caboose, I had planned on priming and painting both sides of the plywood at home in the garage and transporting them to the station. This would eliminate the need to accomplish the task in the warm weather. And by priming and painting both sides of the plywood, it would last a lot longer.

 
Yeah, i was under the impression though that we would be repainting the whole caboose (patches and all) with just a single coat of paint. Atleast, that was the plan when the project was first discussed.  Also, i'm not to worried about winter weather, since i only have until december to do this until I become to old (i turn 18 very soon) to finish the project.
 
I have heard that you can get extensions on time, but i'm not sure what the circumstances are to be eligible to for such an extension.
 
Quote:
It is upsetting that I am sitting here with a lot of time on my hands but no funds to pay the gas to get up there and do something productive. Shame I am not closer to the place, or the place isn't closer to me.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 

 
maybe on one of the project days we can pick you up, if you'd like.  I certainly understand how hard it is to be sitting there idly without being able to do anything useful.  
 
Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 19th, 2007, 10:17am
Thanks for the offer to pick me up. But I can muster up enough gas money for a trip up. I just can't do it on a regular basis. Let me know what your schedule looks like.
 
I didn't know that a patch job was the order of business. Are you planning on replacing entire sheets of plywood where there is rot or somehow putting in a patch?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Sep 19th, 2007, 4:37pm
I'm just going to plug the holes, and paint it, although the one panel on the side looks like it should be replaced, but from what i was told, the idea was to help stablize the caboose's condition until more work could be done on it. I really don't have the time eagle project wise to be tearing it apart. maybe son ( i stull don't have a car ) i can go down and volunteer myself, but this is all i can do for now.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 20th, 2007, 10:20am
Stabilization is good! Then when you get a car (or pick-up) you can restore that one completely. My projects are the N5c (the red one on the end) and the N6b (the bare chassis on the other end). When we brought the Tidewater tank car in, Mike wanted that one painted right away. That plan was shelved when the volunteers and paint never materialized.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Sep 20th, 2007, 6:11pm
I just got Mr. Tamn's singature, and so now everything is ready to go to council.  next tuseday they will be looking at it, and hopefully, if it passes, we can begin work very VERY soon. the next meeting i'll have sign-up sheets, and it looks like that the long weekend in October would be the preferable days to start work.  
 
I wish i had his Email, i mentioned i found a company that sells a kit for an HO model of the EXACT same caboose as the one i'm working on, and he was interested.
 
here is a link to the site.
 
http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Sparrows_Point/index.html
 
You can get it in early Sheathed wood version, or the current Plywood and Batten version.  they are HO scale and $34.95 a piece, and i'm thinking of buying one for my model railroad.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 21st, 2007, 9:39am
That is one fine model right down to the arch bar trucks! PM me and I'll give you Mike's e-mail address.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Sep 25th, 2007, 11:00pm
  The Rails to Trails project has taken a foot in Mt. Holly between Madison Avenue and Pine St.
    I have spoken with Karl about two weeks back...He said that if, if Ft. Dix is designated as a Superbase by the Feds, the line from Mt. Holly would most likely be extended back to Dix.
    Karl feels it's the easiest and most direct way for freight to get to Dix, should this come to light.
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Sep 26th, 2007, 10:08am
The three bases officially became one on November 8, 2005.   It is my understanding that any rail traffic will come off the old CNJ Southern Division using the ROW into Lakehurst NAEC that was used for transporting the contaminated nuclear waste out of the old BOMARC site on McGuire.  
 
After working with the Federal Government for 30+ years, IMHO, they will not rebuild the line from Mt Holly.  Again, IMHO, I do not think that CSX or any other line will, either.  I know this sounds like a defeatist attitude, but I just think it's more realistic.  This is not to say we should give up hope.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 26th, 2007, 4:23pm
Andy you are correct in stating that they might run rail service into the base using the line into Lakehurst. But that line has been dormant for years with no active service down that far and would need to be replaced. So there is still a strong possibility that they will run service into the base through the old rail through Pemberton. The major stumbling block to that plan is that a new bridge would need to be built over Route 206 since the old one was taken down due to the low height of it.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Sep 26th, 2007, 5:28pm
Is there anything interesting down at the mount holly end? maybe it would be worth it to go explore the area with a metal detector or something.  
 
In other news, my project is just about approved. I just need to fix the dates and some wording (again), but this time its the council that is looking at it.  it will be totally ready to go.
 
it looks like the work dates are the 13-14 and the 20-21 of october (both weekends).  Maybe I'll see some of you down there! definitely all the work i can get in will help.
 
Chris
Posted by: MachinistBoy46 Posted on: Sep 26th, 2007, 9:16pm
Hi all-
 
    I too noticed the work being done between Madison Ave. and Pine Street.  A backhoe has cleared a path all the way down to Pine Street, and they are still working on clearing trees and brush on the Madison end by the station.  
        On a side note, I purchased a new book out from the Mt. Holly library, all about the history of Mount Holly.  Theres several pictures of the station and station area, some that amazed me. One was looking from about where the loading dock is now, towards the crossing and station, as a MOW crew worked on the crossing, with a steam engine sitting there.  Its amazing how clear everything was, you could see all the way around the curve to the bridge. Funny how Mother nature reclaims everything over time. Take care everyone   -Chris
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Sep 26th, 2007, 11:25pm
Historic Mount Holly is clearing the ROW between Madison and Pine for a rail trail, per the Burlington County Times.  That whole area had become a haven for the homeless and carousing addicts and alcoholics, so it is being cleared out for more than one reason, and none of them are to restore service.  
As for Lakehurst, CSX CA-34 and CA-35, IIRC, run there at least twice weekly, so there is service.  It is not unusual to see an SD-40 still in Conrail blue parked at the fueling/sanding towers next to the Post Office.  Thus, there is no need to reconstruct a lot of trackage as restoring the ROW from Mt Holly to the bases would.  Additionally, whoever would rebuild the line would have to purchase land back from Burlington County where it is now used for Smithville Park.  East of US 206, homeowners have taken over a bit of ROW, so they have to be contended with, as would Ott's Tavern and the homeowners between the (North Pemberton) station and Pointville Rd.
It is not simply a matter of replacing the bridge over Rte 206.  I have bicycled and walked the path, and there are washouts aplenty, grade crossings to reconstruct, NIMBYs to deal with.  Simply, a whole new line must be built.  (George Harris, where are you to tell us the cost?)  Does anyone believe that CSX would do this?  Probably not, unless Uncle Sam foots the entire bill.  Jim Saxton does a lot for the area, but I don't think he could pull this off.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 27th, 2007, 10:24am
Andy, the land after the station was purchased by the county a while back and they even had stone ordered to take the trail up from the station toward Dix. Ott's borders the trail. I haven't heard anything lately about the expansion of the trail.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Sep 28th, 2007, 11:46am
I wasnt sure about that part of the trail, just the Smithville Park portions.  BTW, someone cleared the brush on the ROW between Pointville Rd and Catesville Rd in Pemberton Twp.  I guess that was about 3 weeks ago.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 30th, 2007, 11:45am
That sounds like the County is again busy getting the next section of railbed ready for conversion to trail. That was supposed to happen last year after they bought the ground from the owners that had originally bought it from the railroad.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 11th, 2007, 11:23pm
Of course, with the project only a few days away, things get changed on me, which really puts me in a spot.  these two weekedn are the only weekends  that were open between now and when I turn 18 in my troop.  
 
True, some things don't require the whole troop, so people will be around, but now that the sides are being removed, it takes the whole scraping/patching out. Then again, painting seperate panels indoor will be good if it gets cold.  While Saturday's work is still on (even if it is only cleaning out some weeds and brush), I'm not entirely sure what i can really do as far as helping.  
 
Is there anything i can make plans for calling my troop in for help?  As long as i get enough hours of work in, my project will still count (I don't need to get things reapprooved).  
 
I just want to start making plans now, because I have to get Tour Permits for each day, so I want to get the paperwork as soon as possible.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 12th, 2007, 9:47am
Sides have been removed!? What happened to patching the holes? Who removed the sides? Both sides, trail and yard? Bring us up to speed.
 
So if the sides have been removed, the framing members underneath had a lot of old nails, screws, holes and rot in them. Are you planning on putting new wood in there or just sister (nailing a good piece of wood to the old piece) the old framing so you have something to nail to?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 12th, 2007, 3:33pm
As far as i know, the old wood is still there right now, but Mr. Tamn said they re-evaluated its situation this past wednesday, and they have determined that patching the holes will not be enough.  At the same time, Mr. Tamn told me to not worry about it, since he is deciding to change this stuff.  
 
So i don't know how the whole thing is working out.  I didn't plan to change things, and Mr. Tamn isn't making it part of my project to do this (since I really have no time for such a project before I turn 1.  If things really get to the point where stuff is getting ripped up in a big and long way, then i'll only be able to help until maybe the weekend before thanksgiving, because after that my birthday is on the 4th of december, and i need time to type up the final part of my project.  
 
Its not to much a problem for me either, since i just put this under the "Changes" part of my final report.  My Function now is to help out where the extra hands are needed, until I have the required total manhours of work done on my end.  At that point, the reqirements for the project will be filled, but i still might hang out to help, as long as possible anyway.  
 
I'm not sure if he wanted to get rid of all sides, since the one side (facing the yard) looks like it has been patched up and set for a while. its the side facing the trail that looks bad, but I'll have to talk to Mr. Tamn again tommorow.  
 
I will be clearing as much stuff as possible. Mr. Tamn says they have a tractor to pull the stuff up from around the side of the caboose, and I'll be wroking on all the weeds and brush around the benches and things on the trails, but no work will happen sunday.  
 
 
otherwise, i really don't know to much, all i know is that i won't be scraping any paint, lol.   Perhaps though, if i can get some of the new wood pannels, i can start painting them.   Anyway we can assist will be good.  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 13th, 2007, 2:06pm
Thanks for the clarification, Chris.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 13th, 2007, 5:26pm
Well day one went by smoothly for me.  because the caboose couldn't be worked on, we went out and clear around all the benches on all of the trails, as well as some weeds and things growing along the trains on the trail side.  
 
They did start taking some of the old wood off, and surprisingly, the area where the one pannel was nearly rotted in two was fine.  
 
Sadly however, the wood on the other side under the window (facing those old buildings) was totally rotted out to the point where after allt he rotted wood was removed, you could see through into the car. The surrounding wood though appeared to be fine.  except for that one huge hole in the wood, the inner layer of wood seemed surprisingly fine.   Hopefully the big hole will be fixed one day.   It still looks like new exteriror pannels will be added on though.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 14th, 2007, 11:35am
Who took the old wood off? Your group or volunteers from the station?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 14th, 2007, 12:16pm
Volunteers at the station. Not all of it is off, but some pieces were removed. Others were pealed back i think to see what was goin on underneath.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 15th, 2007, 9:30am
I spoke with Mike last night. It seems they are putting together quite a force for this weekend to get the caboose done before the weather turns bad. So to that end I will be there on Saturday along with several others to see how much we can accomplish. See you Saturday!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 16th, 2007, 10:31pm
So i've heard! I was just talking to him today about this weekend, making sure I know what to ask the boys to bring at our meeting tommorow.
 
I called the Burlington County Council to make sure such a big change was acceptable to the project, and they said it was fine, so I still have the highball for it.  
 
I was able to start searching for donations and lumber today. the Home Depot new me on 541 in Westampton said they were out of donations until january, and Strober/Haddonfield lumber was closed before i got to them, but the Lowes on Route 38 in Lumberton offered a discount, and thanks to my Uniform, and my mom holding us up trying to find a book for my dad, I bumped into a man who turned out toe be part of the carpentor's union and involved in scouting.  He said he'd see what he could do.
 
Its a good thing i wore my Uniform, lol, or he wouldn't have asked me about my eagle project!
 
I might try Haddonfield lumber as soon as i get home tommorow, but I know the rest of the week is going to be bad for trying to get to these lumber yards.  my schedule and my parents schedule are to full of things to do.  
 
Another tough thing has been trying to find a good fundraiser.  Bake sales and pretzels usually make good fundraisers, but its tough to find places that have thigns open.  I do have an Acme in Westampton open for Black Friday and the next saturday, which means I can raise a whole load of money for you guys that way, but it will be to late to have money that would go into this project.   I've been recomended to go try and set up at Eastampton during sporting events, but i'm not sure how thats going to work out, and i still need to get in contact with them as soon as possible.  
 
Going back to last saturday, it was pretty cool going down that trail, there was alot of railroad stuff i didn't expect to see, like that semafore signal tower!  
 
That bridge was also pretty cool.  You could even see some of the old wooden trestle pylons  we went under the end closer to the station to pick up trash, and we found a piece of carpetting sticking out of the dirt.  We started pulling and it turned out to be a HUGE thing of carpeting half buried in the ground with roots growing through it.  It most have been some long gone hobo's bed roll or something.  either way, that was a pain to get rid of. We (by we I mean I)  had to through i up on the roof of my van, which got us covered in dirt.  
 
I also had a big gas powered weed wacker that the older boys were using.  That thing is in my opinion, alot of fun, but everyone else got shaken up by it! I can't complain though, it made short work of most of the weeds.  Mr. Tamn said there were more he'd like us to take out, but i'm not sure which ones he wants.  I guess i'll have to see this weekend.  
 
Before i left i picked up a book from the store in the station, the "Pennsy Electric Pictorial", and I had to borrow $20 to get it from my parents, so thats not good!  I'm also going to have to get back to work when this is over, because you guys sell alot of books i'd love to have! its tough to find things about our area. Its a good thing my Grandpa employs me, because atleast i'll still have my job. My grandma every time i see her askes how this eagle stuff is going, and she'd make sure my job is still open, lol.  
 
It looks like it will be alot of fun this weekend, I can't wait to get to work.  
 
Chris
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 17th, 2007, 10:05am
Sounds good! See you Saturday.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 20th, 2007, 6:37pm
Here are some pictures of today's work. I think the caboose was more or less left this way since last week
 

 
it looks like this is the worst spot, but things should be alright, or atleast thats what i've been told.
 

 
Its pretty cool to see what it looks like under all that plywood.  
 

 
While the volunteer worked on the caboose, one of the younger scouts scoured the grass with a magnet thing on a stick to pick up dropped nails. Unfortuneately, that was the closest we got to working on the caboose as it was today.  During this time, we were prepping the caboose's new sides with primer. Hopefully, tommorow we can more directly help you guys out with the caboose. I will definitely have more people coming. I know that atleast three people are coming, and i'm awaiting calls from a few others, who will hopefully be available.  
 
gotta love that NX23.  oneday that thing is going to need some bay windows!
 

 
the surprising thing is that this thing is small for a locomotive, but its still huge. its so easy to underestimate the size of these things when i work on my models.
 

 
See you guys tommorow!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 21st, 2007, 12:34pm
Nice pics! And thanks for helping out on this project. It is long overdue!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Oct 21st, 2007, 5:35pm
thanks! its to bad i wasn't by the caboose alot yesterday to hang out with you guys. today we were removing old nails and scrap wood.  I'll have to post pictures soon.  We did manage to get two of the new primed sheets up after the rest of the scouts left at 2, but I think they are positioned wrong, and are slightly to far to the left by a few inches, than in my pictures of the caboose from before they removed the old wood. I'm sure though that one could just place the battins at the right intervals, and probably just about no one will notice but me.  I'm just not sure if i should says something or not.  If he uses the measurements of the wood he took off, he might not have the wood cut right. If he take measurements straight off the caboose, then they should be right.  When we start on the other side, I will make sure to check to see if it is correct before they start screwing it in.  
 
Next weekend I might come, but i also need to do a fundraiser soon to get the other half of the wood ( i only have enough of fro 5 out of the 9 sheets i'm expected to buy). Things are further complicated because there is a major scout event going on this weekend, one that ALOT of scouts go to. If they aren't already going to this event, then they likely had something else important to do.  
 
Mr. Tamn said next weekend might be more work patching up the rotted wood sections, and that i'll only needtwo boys, but i'll see what happens.  
 
I'll post pictures soon!
 
Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 7th, 2007, 10:23am
Chris, I hear you guys knocked it out really good on Sunday. Post some pics so we can see what she looks like clothed!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Nov 7th, 2007, 5:41pm
Oh we did! only the rot spot on the other side remains.  we also need to add  the battens and such on that side. the side facing the train is totally finished.  i'd post picks now, but i'm late for my scout meeting (or alteast, i will be if i don't hurry up!)
 
Sorry i haven't been online much!
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Nov 8th, 2007, 12:39am
The whole thing is mostly finished.  just as the sun started to fade away, we got the last side totally finished.  Yes, we did cover over the windows, but thats alright.  It was jokeded that they could just paint on an interiror, and put the window frame/metal lattice/ sunshade on, and no one would know the difference.
 
Yes, the second can of primer was a slight more purple color.  It does look nice though, especially compared to past photos.
 

 
The other side still needs it's battens, and two more boards over the rot section.  we left it with the older panels covering it from the elements.  Hopefully by this friday I can get the last boards and battens  up.  
 

 
an earlier picture reveals just how much rotted wood was removed.  there is a whole new sister section of wood on the sill, and all of that whitish blue is actually the other side of the metal interior wallin that part of the caboose.  I'm told farther up that tar paper the rot is still pretty bad, but from what i saw when i looked under it, alot of the wood looks fine (definitely the wood i could reach was fine).   I just need new studs so that my new panels can go up, and the caboose will be officially stabilized.
 

 
I'm hoping friday i can have it finished, but thursday (8th) alot of people volunteered to go. I have a tour permit, but i better call Mr. Tamn super early, since all plans were for friday.    I think though, other than this rot section, the rest will be easily completed.  
 
 
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 8th, 2007, 10:04am
Looks good! You and your group have done a fantastic job on getting this car stabilized. I spoke with Mike on Monday and we discussed how we could get this up front where it can be appreciated (and worked on to finish it) without too much effort. Now about the NX23.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Nov 8th, 2007, 11:26am
Fine work with you volunteers.  Thanks for sharing the pictures Chris!
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Nov 11th, 2007, 10:51pm
Chris, you and your crew are doing a great job.  I stopped by on Friday around 12:45 for a gander and spoke very briefly with Mike.  You were all pretty busy and I was in-between errands, so I didn't get to introduce myself.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Nov 11th, 2007, 11:24pm
Thats alright! I was the tall one, lol.  
 
In any event, here are some pictures of Pemberton's Purple Caboose.  I think that might attract some people!
 
I can't really express how happy i am that the project turned out the way it did, even though it was entirely different than what it took 6 months to plan for.   Now the caboose will no long rot away, and it will look nice (atleast on the outside), and it won't be a an unnattractive wreck like it was before.
 

 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Nov 16th, 2007, 12:39am
I was finishing up my Eagle packet, doing some of the math. It took 401 man hours and 15 minutes to finish this project.   Thats more or less 16 days worth of work when you combine all the hours it took people to complete this thing, and that was only out of 7 days that i was actually out working or fundraising.  
 
Thats alot of work!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 16th, 2007, 10:08am
But look how much was accomplished! People really don't realize how much can be accomplished when you get a group of people together to complete a specific task. If that caboose had been left to be done as the N5C was done (by one person with the funding available) it would probably just be stripped. But through your efforts, we are looking at a preserved piece of history. For that effort, I thank you.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Dec 15th, 2007, 4:39pm
      I was speaking with Karl this past Thursday about all the reported progress thanks to all those great volunteers.
       Karl said he was also very happy to see al the progress and he's looking foward to more to come this coming year.
        It seems everytime the Mrs. and I scoot by on a Saturday, very few, if anyone is ever around.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 17th, 2007, 9:56am
I have the time, but not the resources to make my way up there. Shame too since there is so much to do.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Jan 20th, 2008, 11:10pm
News:  The mayor of Pemberton Township wants to sell the property north of the station to Burlington County, since they supposedly have more funds to develop it for the Parks system expansion.  I wasn't sure that the twp owns it, and still am not sure that it does.  Anyway, it appears to be a rebuff to WaWa.  'Tis a puzzlement.
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Jan 20th, 2008, 11:12pm
Here's the articleTOWNSHIP — The mayor hopes to turn over a piece of land that includes the North Pemberton Railroad Station to the county parks system while acquiring a 14-acre parcel near the municipal building from the county.
 
Mayor David Patriarca said he strongly believes the county is in the best position to make full use of the approximately 15 acre-parcel at Arney's Mount and Fort Dix roads. Patriarca said the county has the money to improve the property, which the township does not.
 
He foresees North Pemberton station becoming part of the county's Rails-to-Trails system. There is already a cinder trail leading from the station to the Birmingham section of the township.
 
“What we're proposing is that the county enter that property into the county parks system,” he said yesterday. “Putting it into the county parks system will only enhance that property, which will benefit our residents.”
 
The mayor is also in negotiations to acquire a vacant L-shaped 14-acre parcel next to the Municipal Building on Pemberton-Browns Mills Road. The county owns the land, but the township Public Works Department performs maintenance there, and the township frequently uses the space with the county's permission.  
 
Patriarca said he has no specific plans for that land, but wants the parcel in township hands in case future administrations want to build there. He said the Chosen Board of Freeholders could decide to build on that land and the township could do little to stop it.
 
“If we don't own it, we don't control it,” he said.
 
 
The mayor asked the Township Council to support the land deals at Wednesday's meeting. The council instead asked for more information.
 
Councilman Richard Prickett wanted to know what the mayor plans to do with the 14-acres. He said the mayor has in the past mentioned the possibility of building a new municipal building or firehouse on that land.
 
“I don't understand why it's so important if he's just going to leave it as open space,” Prickett said yesterday. “I don't object to the trade, I just want make sure we're not acquiring this land to spend millions of dollars on a firehouse . . . or a municipal building that might include a firehouse. If those buildings are part of his plans, I think the public needs to know about it before we go forward.”
 
“There's no plans or intent to build any municipal building,” Patriarca said. “We're not in any kind of financial position to build any kind of building at this point.”
 
Prickett supports including the rail station in the county parks system, but doesn't want to see the township setting itself up to spend money developing land.  
 
“If we're going to be spending money or planning for the future, we need to focus our attention on improving our town center and improving the dams in Country Lakes,” he said.
 
Patriarca said he would bring up the matter again at the Jan. 23 council meeting.
 
E-mail: jharris@phillyBurbs.com  
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:51pm
I JUST MADE EAGLE SCOUT TONIGHT!, so again, thank you all for your help!
 
 I still need to get thso thank you cards out, and i have to send Mr. Tamn that CD with all my pictures, so i'll make sure i get it out soon.   things have been super busy until lately!
 
Also, how will the above news effect the Wawa situation?
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Jan 23rd, 2008, 3:39am
Very hearty congratulations to you!  Thanks for all your efforts at the museum.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jan 23rd, 2008, 2:59pm
Congratulations Chris! I am glad that you have accomplished this prestigious step in Scouting!
 
And as far as I know, the proposal is for the township to swap the station grounds for the parcel near the township building. The old rail yard is now owned by wawa and has nothing to do with the proposed land swap.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 12th, 2008, 11:28am
Wawa's contractor has knocked down the big building and the burned shed on the old rail yard site. The other shed has had it's sides removed. Theye are going to disassemble the building in order to salvage the roof trusses. They will begin breaking up the concrete real soon. They are in for a big surprise when they find out how thick it is. And wait until they find the old ties that are buried under the concrete and many locations throughout the yard.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Mar 12th, 2008, 7:46pm
That is depressing. Hopefully though, something good may come out of it. Perhaps some old pieces of equipment might be found or something. Probably not, but its not a bad idea to wonder about.   I guess you can't stop "progress".  
 
Chris
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Mar 13th, 2008, 6:31pm
I passed by  the site last night.  Durn shame.  I could see that the buildings were gone even in the dark.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 24th, 2008, 10:02am
I guess Mayor Patriarca will do nothing.  New Jersey politics suck!
These people cause more problems with our world, then blame the public for it....
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Mar 24th, 2008, 2:49pm
I am not sure that I care for Patriarca anymore, but I think this deal was done long before he took office.  Then again, as previously stated, he did not intervene to stop WaWa, either.  So my let's-give-council-a-chance hope did not turn out the way we wanted it.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 27th, 2008, 9:50am
If you go back to the beginning of this thread you will see that the deal was done long before this administration took office. The previous administration was the one that did nothing even though they had many e-mail messages protesting the sale of the ground to Wawa. Those messages disappeared. Ain't computers grand? With a single keystroke, messages just disappear.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Apr 4th, 2008, 12:33am
 I spoke with Karl just a few hours ago.  We conversed about the WAWA situation.
According to Karl, The museum will be allowed the adjacent property up to where the building was.  The turnatable goes back to the 1850's and will be part of the trust.
  Karl also showed me pictures of the yard switcher.  He said he has just replaced the springs on the front trucks since the were "shot".
  On the political speak, it seems amazing that done deals can sometimes be undone by newer administrations, then can't be undone when it's convenient.
  I know that the prior administration/ representation gave the kudos, however, you see where I'm going... this being New Jersey and all...
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 2:50pm
You have to stop by and see the new paint job on the last caboose in the line. I was up there last Saturday and put the first coat of paint on it. It looks good. Thanks to Chris and his group, I had something solid to paint. Now it is beginning to look like a caboose!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Apr 23rd, 2008, 7:12pm
THATS AWESOME!  Thank you for letting me work on it! I need to get down there and help out again soon.
 
Yeah, i'm going to be getting my license by june hopefully.  Right now school is keeping me limited in free time, but i'd love to get out there and help get more stuff completed!
 
I was actually just wondering about that caboose because someone was asking me about it. Its good to know its turning red again.  
 
I myself have been working on a model of it, but the underbody is getting tough to recreate.  I heard this kind of caboose in real life was a Boxcar rebuild, so i'm thinking of trying to get an underbody from one of those.  On the model, the underbody isn't recessed behind the panels, so it sticks out some.  
 
here is an older picture.  Now there is a familiar view!
 
 

Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 28th, 2008, 9:23am
I am by no means an expert but Mike told me he thinks they used old passenger cars for the frame. What I find most fascinating is how narrow the car is. The truck's spring ends stick out past the sides of the car. When I mention the word narrow to anyone about this car, they think narrow gauge even though I don't say narrow gauge.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Apr 28th, 2008, 5:42pm
Yeah, it was tough fitting in there. we almost trapped one of the smaller scouts in the back while we were working in the caboose.  the door getting stuck didn't help any, lol  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 19th, 2008, 9:07am
After several weeks of preparation for a history tour of our rail facilities, the Pinelands Alliance brought about 45 people on Saturday. We took them down the trail in our wagons and showed them:
 
The rail yard and the turntable pit. All of the rolling stock and a little history behind each one. The foundation for the old bunk house. The Telegraph shed. Then some things that I didn't even know existed. There is a pole on the right side of the trail that was used for the semaphore signal. On the left are the four granite blocks for the old water tower. What's really strange is that these blocks are back about twenty feet off of the trail and that there was another rail behind these blocks! Then there are two culverts that were built in the 1800s and still functional. Across the creek is a block house foundation before the junction. Farther down the trail is the foundation for the steam pump that pumped water out of the creek for the water tank. Next is another block house foundation followed by the foundation for the Birmingham station. Directly across from the old station is the battery and signal box for the road there.
 
Future plans are for us to unearth more of the Birmingham station foundation, repair the semaphore pole and put the semaphore back up, clear out more of the tower area, and general trail maintenance. That should keep us busy for the rest of the summer and autumn.  
 
And remember that if you want to come out and donate time or money, call the station at 609-894-0546. If you like to see a project through to it's completion, we can work that out as well.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Aug 19th, 2008, 10:07am
Yeah, I've been meaning to try and get out there to help out again.  However, this summer has been totally ridiculous for me. i still haven't been able to get a car, and college is starting in less than two weeks (heading to BCC, so i'm not far)! I might stop by once i figure out how my college schedule and help out if i can.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 20th, 2008, 2:13pm
We look forward to seeing you. Keep an eye peeled in the next few weeks. There are some things happening in the near future.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 10th, 2008, 2:57pm
September 27 th is Pemberton Day. We will be open and fully staffed in the museum and on the trail. We will also be having trail rides in our wagon. The ride will be $2.00 for and adult and $1.00 for kids. The trip will go all the way down to Birmingham station and back and we will point out all of the historic points of interest along the way.
 
Hope to see you there.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 14th, 2008, 11:07am
Mike and his tractor have been very busy this week clearing the trail. For the first time in recent memory, you can actually see the 1/4 marker and bench from the station. He and I pulled out tree stumps yesterday in effort to continue to clear the trail as it once was. While we were cutting roots, we found a lot of ties buried in the dirt. These were the ties from the siding that went back to the oil tanks in the back of the yard.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 25th, 2008, 11:51pm
    What you wrote Ed does sound exciting.  
Have you guys continued with the row clearing this month?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 2nd, 2008, 11:56am
Yep! We were up there yesterday taking down the razor wire and barbed wire off of the fence that currently separates us from the Wawa property. We want to clean that general area but couldn't since the wire was hanging down in some places.
 
What else have you seen up there that wasn't there before?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 1st, 2008, 9:40am
Our annual hayride is this weekend. Wagons run Saturday and Sunday from 10:00 AM to 3:15 PM. Refreshments are available in the section house as usual. Price is $5.00 for adults and $3.00 for kids. The round trip is about 30-40 minutes depending on how hight the idle is set on the tractor. More info is available at 609-894-0546.
 
See you then.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 8th, 2008, 9:47am
Our hayride was a huge success even though the wagon did not have any hay on it. We could have used a second tractor so we could have used out second trailer but we couldn't borrow one so we ran the one continously. We replaced the small coal stove in the section house with a bigger stove for Sunday and it made a huge difference. Suprisingly, Sunday was very busy despite the weather.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2009, 12:16pm
For those of you that do not know this, Wawa did in fact donate the old rail yard to us. Thank you Wawa. We have been cleaning out the trees and overgrowth that has clogged the area. We could always use help. So if your in the area on Saturday the 4th, stop by and bring your gloves. We are hoping to begin excavation this weekend to find the remains of the rumored two or three stall roundhouse. We are located at 3 Fort Dix Rd in Pemberton Township NJ. We also have plenty of kindling available if you want it. Most of the firewood is gone but there is plenty of kindling and small branches.
 
We have found the turntable pit, ash pit, and the foundation from the doodlebug engine house. We also found a rain trough that carried the rain water off of the property back to the creek. What we have found is in fine shape. Also unearthed are the footings for the freight house which we will rebuild someday.  
 
We also have plenty of rolling stock that needs to be cleaned, primed and painted. Stop by and adopt-a-project. So if you want to play with trains, come on by. I arrive at 9:00 since it is an hour drive for me.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2009, 4:13pm
Cool! I think i found the turntable ring when i was out working on the caboose. I had pictures, but my computer needs a new power pack (the pictures should be fine, computer just needs power. I better back them up once i get the computer running again)
 
usually i work on saturdays, but i haven't been around in a while (I stopped by once after the wawa was built on my way home from BCC, but nobody was around. Its good to see the caboose is painted red!), so i'll see if i can't show up.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Apr 3rd, 2009, 5:30pm
About time we heard something good!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 7th, 2009, 9:24am
Chris, the caboose was supposed to be a semi-gloss red. Sadly it had turned into looking like a red primer. We will repaint it with the same paint on the CNJ caboose in the back.
 
We cleaned the donated machinery on Saturday since the weather was iffy. The section house is now officially full! It will empty out a bit after we build the watch box and place it across the street where it once stood. I did get out to the back yard and pickup blue styrofoam that is all over the place. I will probaly go up Saturday and cut up the small trees so they can be moved out of the way. If I have the time after that I'll rake the area to get an idea of what we have to dig through to find the engine house foundation. We do know that after the turntable was removed, they laid another siding that cut across the edge of the turntable so those ties have to be removed before we can dig.
 
During the members meeting (yea, anybody can be a member) last night, we covered the stuff we want to do including painting the section house, unearthing the foundation, finishing the paint on the N5C, removing the fence in the back, then there is always the usual ground work that is required as the weather warms up. But there are those projects that will always be there, the Tidewater tank car, the gondola, hopper and flat car, the N6B, finishing the CNJ caboose in the back, etc. It never ends.
 
So if you want to help out, I'll let you know here when we will be working.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Apr 7th, 2009, 11:28am
As long as i know atleast two weeks ahead of time if you need volunteers, i'll try to come down.  Saturdays i'm almost always working, so its hard to show up on those days.  Almost any other day of the week, i'm available after noon, except thursdays.  
 
I'll have to help finish painting that caboose.  I wasn't satisfied leaving it in the primer, lol.
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Apr 7th, 2009, 12:00pm
I'm available most weekdays.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 9th, 2009, 9:09am
Chris and Andy, thanks for the offer of help. And yes we do need help during the week. Mike works down there a lot and we have a few people that are also available during the week. Contact me in a PM with your phone numbers and I'll pass them along to Mike so when he is down there he can contact you guys.  
 
Thanks again!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Apr 9th, 2009, 4:09pm
I was just there today and he gave me his number (again, i know i have it somewhere with my eagle stuff).    
 
Mr. Tamn gave me a tour of what was new, and I have to say i'm impressed.  It seems like the museum is going places despite the Wawa problems, and its good to know the land is owned to allow the turntable and other related structures to be built.  
 
I will say however, that the section house is ALOT more open than when i was doing the eagle project, lol.  The new machinery is impressive, i like the hydraulic press, it looks alot like a bigger newer version of the one i use at my job.  
 
 
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 11th, 2009, 10:20am
We worked in the section house the past two Saturdays cleaning the equipment and generally straightening the place out. And I too was surprised how much room there is in there now even though we brought in all of that equipment. Then someone stole the wire out of the ground that ran to the section house. So now we have to run out extension cords if we want to see what we are doing. We ar elooking forward to getting electricity run in there so we can just throw a switch to get lights. I'll probably go up there Sunday next week since I have something to do on Saturday.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 20th, 2009, 9:56am
On Sunday, Mike and I continued to clean out the rear yard so we could begin to dig for the foundation of the rumored engine house that may or may not have resided back there. We have no proof that it existed other than they had them at other NJ yards.
 
We are working on the area that has the drain trough running through it. We have found this trough up front where it is buried but back here, it is above the surface. So we see the curb that is the trough and above it is another curb looking hunk of concrete about eigh feet long. Now we surmise that it is some kind of foundation but what for, we have no idea since again there are no photos of this part of the yard. So we are getting ready to pull the stump that sits next to this curb. Mike starts to pull and the thing comes up very easily and in the shape of the foundation with very crisp edges. We go over to see why and then we discover that thers is a concrete floor under there. So we pull the stump away and Mike clears out the surrounding underbrush and there sits a beautiful, flat, floor! Now the curbing is clearly seen to be the side of the foundation which supported one wall. The other three walls are gone and it looks like the floor was chopped off to shorten the floor. The cut section corresponds with the fence line so we are figuring that when the RR sold that section of the yard to the oil company, the building was sticking out onto the property so they just chopped it off since the engine house and oil house were long gone.
 
So what did we find? The oil house! Mike is sure that is what it is since they were built near the engine house and the floor had a trough cut around the edge for drainage and this floor has such a trough. Now we are positive that there is an engine house foundation back there. While Mike was scrapping the ground I started digging and I came up with several huge hunks of concrete buried in a line that runs parallel to the drainage trough. One even has a bolt sticking out of it. A tree has grwon around it but we can get hat out to see what it is. I believe we have found the fopundation to the old engine house. We will now concentrate on excavating the site to see if we can find the rest of the foundation. The only problem is that when the laid the track that skirted the turntable, they may have removed some parts of the foundation.
 
More as it happens.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Apr 20th, 2009, 11:59am
Great work, guys!
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Apr 20th, 2009, 8:20pm
I was out in the rain at 6:45 this evening looking at the results of your work when I recalled that there was a track diagram for the area.  It is on this thread, Reply 48, but that diagram doesn't show what you uncovered, especially the turntable.  Is there another track plan somewhere else?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 24th, 2009, 4:04pm
The drawing in reply 48 is from a time after the turntable was removed. The engine house was gone long before that. We haven't located a drawing showing anything before the posted one. The historic aerial photos from 1938 is so fuzzy, you can't tell anything from it. we also know that there was a small yard at the junction between us and Birmingham but there is no proof of that today.
 
I didn't realize it had been five days since I was on here. I have been really busy this week!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Apr 26th, 2009, 9:35am
I hope this works; from the IntNews
 
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phillyBurbs.com / News / Local / Burlington County Times / Burlington County Times News
Related News:
Preserve has towering ambition  
Preserve has towering ambition  
More open space preserved in Bucks  
More land preserved in Bucks Pem. Twp. rail station to become open space  
TEXT SIZE  By: MARK ZIMMARO
Burlington County Times
PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP - The township has traded the North Pemberton Railroad Station on Fort Dix Road to the county in exchange for 11 acres of vacant land near the municipal building.  
 
In an effort to cut down costs to maintain the railroad station museum, the township swapped sites with the county and acquired a parcel on Pemberton-Browns Mills Road between Buttonwood Hospital and the municipal building.  
 
The county owns the land, but the township Public Works Department maintains it, and the township frequently uses the space for special events with the county's permission.  
 
The museum will become part of the county's Rails to Trails project, which preserves unused rail corridors by transforming them into recreational trails.  
 
"We're excited about this land swap, which will provide an important link in the county's greenway along the Rancocas [Creek] while extending our Rails to Trails project," Freeholder Bill Haines said in a news release. "Best of all, we're doing this at no cost to the taxpayers."  
 
Township Mayor David Patriarca said he believes the county is in the best position to make full use of station site, which is on about 15 acres at Arney's Mount and Fort Dix roads. The museum is leased to the Pemberton Historic Trust, which will continue to operate from the building.  
 
Advertisement "The cost of maintaining the railroad station is very expensive," Patriarca said. "I brought the idea to [Haines] last year and he liked the idea. They will put it in the county park system and they are better suited to maintain the property."  
 
Patriarca denied that the township intends to build a firehouse or a new municipal building on the newly acquired land.  
 
"There has always been a lot of speculation that we were going to build something there if we acquired the land, but we have absolutely no plans in the works," he said. "The township would now have the option to do so, but right now we are just keeping it as open space."  
 
Before the swap is finalized, the township will finish improvements to the railroad station that are funded from a previous grant. The improvements include period restoration of the museum and outbuildings and a reconfiguration of the parking areas.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 26th, 2009, 10:14am
There was much more info on that site than in the actual article. Probably had to trim the article to fit in the paper. But it is pretty acurate. The only flaw I see is that they haven't started on the improvements yet.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Apr 27th, 2009, 11:45pm
Hey Ed,
     My wife and I were at the station and grounds on Sunday.
While we did our usual look threw the station, I investigated where you guys did your flagging.
    I don't really understand while WAWA put a side walk down toward the station site and running along the fence.
    I also saw that WAWA built up the Window Manufacturer property several feet, I presume to cap the contamination and have unwanted draining into the station property.
    The fellow who is follickly challenged and has a mustache is a very nice fellow and made our visit pleasant.
 
on Apr 26th, 2009, 10:14am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
There was much more info on that site than in the actual article. Probably had to trim the article to fit in the paper. But it is pretty acurate. The only flaw I see is that they haven't started on the improvements yet.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 29th, 2009, 9:20am
Our Sunday volunteer is Phil.
 
The sidewalk in question is on county property. There is a 20' easement on the Wawa side of the fence. They built up the ground to level it with the street at the north end of the property and to get enough coverage over the tanks. But yes, we do now have a drainage problem. Every time it rains, the trail floods because the hill is supposed to drain to the creek at the back of the property. It remains to be seen if the county will do anything about the drainage issues when they take over.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 10th, 2009, 10:04am
Yesterday, we were digging around in an attempt to find the footings or foundation from an engine house that may or may not have been on the west side on the turntable. Last week I saw a piece of concrete with a rusted bolt sticking out of it between the base of a small tree. So I dug forward along the concrete drainage trench and found a huge piece of concrete but no bolt. Then I went towards what would have been the back of the house and found another small piece of concrete but again with no bolt. On the ground around the site are three other small 10" x 10" x 10" blocks of concrete, two with bolts, one without. So we dug a trench in line with the middle one out to where the side wall would have been if it was a three stall engine house. Nothing. So we dug a smaller trench down to virgin soils and that continued all the way across to the the trough with no sign of a footing or foundation. So then we were thinking that maybe the ties we are seeing in the ground are from the engine house and not from the track that was laid after the turntable was removed. We uncovered the ends and sighted them and they were straight at the edge of the turntable provoing that they were the track that ran to the factory, not the old engine house. So it is back to square one.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 17th, 2009, 2:24pm
Yesterday, we hosted a bus tour sponsored by Burlington county. Great group, but sadly, they only had a 30 minute window for us. We split them into four groups and did a bang up job giving them a tour of the railroad side of the property, the trail story, the station history and the area history. They all had nice things to say and many said they would return on their own.
 
We still are in dire need of volunteers to work on the rolling stock. So anyone out there that wants to help, leave me a PM.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 30th, 2009, 3:28pm
Today Mike and I began the process of unearthing the ash pit that was built in the early 1860s and filled and covered in the early 1930s. The walls are all there but in a few places there are two and three courses of brick missing. We uncovered about 30' of it today but I just can't physically put as much time in as I once did. Next Saturday we will hopefully get the right side uncovered and start on the left side. Then we can dig out the pit and begin rebuilding the walls. The plan then is to lay track from the turntable to the end of the ash pit. This is visible from the Wawa parking lot. Today we had several people say hi and ask what we were doing. So if any one wants to get dirty and fling some dirt, meet us there next Saturday around 9:00 AM. I will post some pictures when they send me what they took today. Next week I hope to take my camera.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 2:38pm
I took my camera to the station for our monthly meeting and took the following photos. This one is looking toward the turntable pit with the tank off to the right.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 2:41pm
This one is from the same location. If you look up to the left of the tank, you can see a white stake with a white flag. That marks the center point of the turntable where the pivot probably sits buried.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 2:43pm
This one shows the front right corner which is where we started. We worked back toward the turntable pit from here. Saturday we will probaly finish the right side, then we will start here and work toward the left.
 
This shows the top course and a stud sticking out of it. The stud was probably 10-12 inches long and went through a tie then had a nut and washers put on top to hold the ties from moving. In between each tie, brick was mortared together in an 8" x 8" stack that would keep the ties from shifting front to rear. We have to add up to three courses in some locations.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 2:50pm
Last but not least, this view is from the center point (the white flag on the stake) of the turntable pit looking towards the ash pit. We plan to finish excavating the pit then lay rail from the turntable wall to the end of the ash pit, just like it was way back in the 1800s. To the left of the ash pit is where the doodlebug engine house was located. That foundation will be excavated next. I can't tell you the gratification you get when finding these relics. I missed my calling. I should have been an archeologist.
Posted by: CHESSIEMIKE Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 6:42pm
Good job. No telling what you might find if you keep digging around.
CHESSIEMIKE
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2009, 8:52pm
I wish I didn't have to work on Saturdays, I'd love to help out!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 3rd, 2009, 10:59am
Mike has been known to work there during the week. Give him a call and see if he is going to be around. 609-894-0546 is the number at the station. If the museum is closed, just leave a message.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 7th, 2009, 10:42am
Whoops! Forget the camera again!
 
But we got about 14' of the pit cleaned out. The bottom is brick and in great shape. The pit is about two feet deep and three feet wide. We had a new volunteer from the SJ Rail board come out and give us a big hand. Thanks, Tom! We found a few intact bottles in the fill that we will clean up and put on display in the museum. Next week we hope to have the backhoe fixed so we can really tear it up! Yea, we are digging by hand. Pictures next week, I promise!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 14th, 2009, 10:30am
Last Sunday night, a few of the locaal volunteers dug out another 4 or 5 feet by just slinging the dirt to the side. They unearthed a caboose toilet with the flapper valve still in tact.
 
Yesterday Tom and I dug out another 6-8 feet. I have posted pictures of what it looked like before we started. I ddn't get pictures of what it looked like after we were done because we were rushing to get everything putaway before the skies opened up.
 
In this picture, you can see the remnants of the studs sticking up out of the wall. You can also see the way the ties were laid into the brick work of the wall. The way they did it was to lay a ties then build a small 8" tall wall of brick then lay another tie until they had them lining the entire pit. You can see the bottom layer of mortar still intact.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 14th, 2009, 10:47am
The water filled pit looking toward the turntable. That's Chris' caboose on the left and the 1800s Alladdin Oil tank on the right.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 14th, 2009, 10:49am
Looking toward Wawa.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jun 23rd, 2009, 1:03pm
I'd be remiss not to say great work by you and your team Ed.
Since we've had the soggiest June on recent record, have you made any progress since your last posting?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 24th, 2009, 10:22am
No. we took last weekend off. I don't know if Mike and I will attempt to dig any out this weekend or not. I am hoping that the backhoe gets fixed real soon. This digging is killing me. I am too old for this much manual labor.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 12th, 2009, 11:07am
We are near the end now! A new volunteer, Mike, came out yesterday and gave us a big hand. Thanks Mike. We dug out another 6-7 feet and last Sunday night a few of the local guys dug out 4-6 feet and uncovered the drain in the wall near the floor. We figure we have another four feet until the end. Then we will excavate around the pit so we can rebuild the missing section of the wall and then we will put down ties and rail back to the edge of the turntable pit.  
 
We could still use a few young guys to help us old guys with the heavy lifting.
 
Here is a picture of the drain with bricks covering it to keep any dirt from running in there if it rains.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 12th, 2009, 11:08am
From one end....
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 12th, 2009, 11:09am
....and the other end.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
P.S. If you want to help, we start around 9:00 on Saturday. It takes me an hour to get there.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jul 12th, 2009, 11:15pm
I wish you guys didn't work saturday, for that is the one day of the week i am unavailable.  Are there any other days that things get done?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 13th, 2009, 8:58am
Mike is there many days during the week. If you still have his phone number, give him a call. As a matter of fact, we might be moving the old oil tank to it's pad on Thursday. I say might because it depends on whether or not the crane company finishes their other job on time.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 16th, 2009, 2:04pm
Well, the crane company that was supposed to move the oil tank today never showed. And this after telling us they would be there today.  
 
So while I waited for them to arrive, I dug near the end of the ash pit and found the end wall. So one more day of digging and we will have dug it all out. And I noticed that the rain of the other day that ran into the pit drained very nicely out the wall drain. I spoke with Mike and he has a mason lined up to repair the wall so we can lay ties and track. The drawings show that the track went about thirty feet past the end of the pit. So if they had two engines to service, they could run the one over the pit then run him out the end and run the second one over rather than run out the first, then take him back to the table and rotate him, etc. Very time saving indeed. So if we dig on Saturday, I'll take pictures and post them.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jul 17th, 2009, 11:49am
Great work you fellas are accomplishing.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 19th, 2009, 10:17am
We finished digging out the pit yesterday. It is 40' long, 4' wide and 26" deep at the ends. We then began digging around the outside edges to give the mason room to work when he relays the top courses of brick. Then we will grade the land back to the turntable and lay track to the table and one stick past the pit. I didn't bring my camera. Maybe if I am up that way this week, I'll stop by and take some photos.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jul 19th, 2009, 3:23pm
Hey, did you guys check out a site called http://www.historicaerials.com ?
 
they have aerial photos of pemberton for the years 1931, 1940, 1956, 1963, 1970, 1995, and 2006.   I figure these might help you find some of those missing buildings, or otherwise spot stuff buried in the dirt, though the 1931 images are grainy,
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 21st, 2009, 11:08am
Yes, I have. They didn't show anything. It was disappionting since I figured for sure thay would show a lot. Thanks for the tip anyway.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 26th, 2009, 10:28am
Yesterday we began digging for the doodlebug engine house. While I was digging around the outside of the ash pit wall to make room for the mason to rebuild the wall, Mike scraped the area where the engine house was. After a few trips back and forth, he unearthed spike heads. I dug around and found about a dozen spikes still in the ties with the tie plates still there. When the railroad tore up a line, they would loosen the spikes and slide the rail out then cover it all with dirt. But these ties do not aim at the center of the turntable like the ash pit does. So what we uncovered was the freight siding that was put in to service the factory after the turntable was removed. These ties are on top of the engine house foundation. So we will most likely have to tear these up to continue the excavation for the engine house.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jul 27th, 2009, 12:03am
on Jul 26th, 2009, 10:28am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Yesterday we began digging for the doodlebug engine house. While I was digging around the outside of the ash pit wall to make room for the mason to rebuild the wall, Mike scraped the area where the engine house was. After a few trips back and forth, he unearthed spike heads. I dug around and found about a dozen spikes still in the ties with the tie plates still there. When the railroad tore up a line, they would loosen the spikes and slide the rail out then cover it all with dirt. But these ties do not aim at the center of the turntable like the ash pit [/size]does. So what we uncovered was the freight siding that was put in to service the factory after the turntable was removed. These ties are on top of the engine house foundation. So we will most likely have to tear these up to continue the excavation for the engine house.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
 
 
[size=5]So would it be safe to say, that since this freight siding was installed over the turntable pit, you'll also have to dig out a sizeable amount of stone or brick that was most likely used to fill it all in?
When is your next work day Ed?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jul 27th, 2009, 10:00am
If you mean the turntable pit, you are correct. But that won't happen any time soon. An open pit is trouble. So we would have to erect a fenc around it to keep the strays from falling in.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Aug 2nd, 2009, 3:54pm
I was out on the grounds Friday afternoon around 1:00pm.  I inspected all of the work done so far.  Unfortuntely, you weren't out there Ed.
As I see you have quite a sizable collection of rail ties as well and rail.
I like the "whistle" sign down the trail.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 3rd, 2009, 1:57pm
We have 1700' (3500' of rail) of track with ties and accessories that we hope to get down this year.  
 
Saturday we scraped some more to attempt to find the doodlebug engine house foundation. But it is under the ties that held the freight track they put in after they tore out the turntable. So until we find the foundation, we will not pull up the ties from that siding. The foundation may be gone.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: 69boss429 Posted on: Aug 8th, 2009, 2:32pm
do you guys have electricity?i wouldnt mind helping out on saturdays before or after work depending on what shift im on that day.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 9th, 2009, 10:23am
Yes, we do. But to clarify, we have electricity at the station and a heavy extension cord on a hose reel that we run out. We used to have power in the section house but someone pulled up the wire for scrap. We have grant money to revamp the facility and one of the things in there is three phase power to the section house.
 
And since I am a car buff, do you really have a '69 Boss 429?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: 69boss429 Posted on: Aug 14th, 2009, 1:37pm
no i dont, i wish i did though
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 16th, 2009, 10:07am
We just did a little straightening up yesterday since we were short on time.
 
We will need to put down a stick of track in the next weekor two for a new arrival. Watch this board for details or better still, watch for the work session and come out and help us lay the stick. We have a tractor for the heavy lifting and we also have a pnuematic jackhammer for driving the spikes But if you want to try your prowess at a spike hammer, we have a few of those too.  
 
Now for those of you who are not available on Saturdays, we will be needing help here real soon to load out the new arrival so watch the board for that too.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Aug 18th, 2009, 12:58pm
on Aug 16th, 2009, 10:07am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
We just did a little straightening up yesterday since we were short on time.
 
We will need to put down a stick of track in the next weekor two for a new arrival. Watch this board for details or better still, watch for the work session and come out and help us lay the stick. We have a tractor for the heavy lifting and we also have a pnuematic jackhammer for driving the spikes But if you want to try your prowess at a spike hammer, we have a few of those too.  
 
Now for those of you who are not available on Saturdays, we will be needing help here real soon to load out the new arrival so watch the board for that too.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

How about if it rains or drizzles Ed?  Would it stll be a go?
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Aug 18th, 2009, 9:52pm
on Aug 18th, 2009, 12:58pm, Eddie M. wrote:       (Click here for original message)

How about if it rains or drizzles Ed?  Would it stll be a go?

 
Break out the rain gear!
 
Well, if its during the week, i'm totally free except mid-day tommorow.  still can't do saturdays.  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 19th, 2009, 2:58pm
Drizzle is just a nuisance. Only a downpour would hinder the work.  
 
I say we have to lay the stick but I haven't heard anything official yet. It will probably be one of those deals where we find out one day that we need to pick up the new arrival the next day.
 
I'll let you know the schedule.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Aug 21st, 2009, 1:09pm
on Aug 19th, 2009, 2:58pm, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Drizzle is just a nuisance. Only a downpour would hinder the work.  
 
I say we have to lay the stick but I haven't heard anything official yet. It will probably be one of those deals where we find out one day that we need to pick up the new arrival the next day.
 
I'll let you know the schedule.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
Eye,eye captain.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Sep 12th, 2009, 12:28am
I went down with my wife, to the site on Saturday afternoon 9/5.  I walked the old row again and took note of the old semaphore about a half mile down.
I again noticed nobody around.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Sep 14th, 2009, 12:23am
on Sep 12th, 2009, 12:28am, Eddie M. wrote:       (Click here for original message)
I went with my wife,down to the site on Saturday afternoon 9/5.  I walked the old row again and took note of the old semaphore about a half mile down.
I again noticed nobody around.

 
 
I with my friend Jim, went down yesterday afternoon again to find nobody around.   UUGGGHHH!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 15th, 2009, 4:23pm
That semaphore had been buried in the underbrush for years. Also down the trail on left, way back in the woods, are three granite blocks that used to hold the water tanks that they watered the locos from. It is really amazing how much railroad activity went on at that facility from the turn of the century to the early '30s.
 
I didn't show up Saturday since it was raining. And when I do go, it is early in the day and I am usually gone by noon or one. Since most of the work is done while standing, I am only good for three or four hours any more.
 
Now if you are coming out to volunteer, let me know and we will make arrangements.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 27th, 2009, 10:58am
Another volunteer and new member, Tom, and I began sanding and priming the diesel yesterday. We started on the Wawa side so people can see we are doing something to keep the place looking nice. Another couple of member/volunteers cut the grass in a few places. If the weather is nice this weekend, we will attack it with power tools and hopefully get the entire east end, Wawa side, in primer.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 4th, 2009, 10:33am
Well, we got most of the #2 end in primer as well as some of the face of the cab. Next week we will finish that end and get the cab in primer. Our plan is to use the #1 end as a pattern to repaint the #2 end the way it was painted at Roebling If our plans got well, we hope to have the cab and the #2 end back in Roebling colors before winter sets in.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 10th, 2009, 4:13pm
on Oct 4th, 2009, 10:33am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Well, we got most of the #2 end in primer as well as some of the face of the cab. Next week we will finish that end and get the cab in primer. Our plan is to use the #1 end as a pattern to repaint the #2 end the way it was painted at Roebling If our plans got well, we hope to have the cab and the #2 end back in Roebling colors before winter sets in.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

It all sounds promising Ed.  I have commitments in North Jersey this weekend.  I"ll get over there as soon as I can get the chance.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 11th, 2009, 10:55am
With the rains threatening, we sprayed the radiator louvers and then put them in white jaust as it began to drizzle. So we cleaned out the basement of outdated computers, something we do often. We'll be back next Saturday.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 6th, 2009, 9:41am
Tomorrow we are going to lay at least one stick of track and maybe two or three. We start at 9:00 AM so stop by if you want.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Nov 6th, 2009, 11:40am
on Nov 6th, 2009, 9:41am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Tomorrow we are going to lay at least one stick of track and maybe two or three. We start at 9:00 AM so stop by if you want.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
We are committed to the Tuckahoe train run tomorrow that leaves at 10:00am. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 8th, 2009, 10:26am
We got two sticks down on ties but ran out of time so next Saturday we will be spiking the two sticks down and maybe get the third stick down. We did drag enough ties up for all three sticks but only four pieces of rail. Beginning to look like a railroad. We tried to level the track so we wound up about two-three inches higher than the track the N5c is on. We will have to roll that back and raise the track so we can install joiner bars. It has settled into the dirt over the years. I didn't have a camera but maybe next week.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Nov 9th, 2009, 6:44pm
on Nov 8th, 2009, 10:26am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
We got two sticks down on ties but ran out of time so next Saturday we will be spiking the two sticks down and maybe get the third stick down. We did drag enough ties up for all three sticks but only four pieces of rail. Beginning to look like a railroad. We tried to level the track so we wound up about two-three inches higher than the track the N5c is on. We will have to roll that back and raise the track so we can install joiner bars. It has settled into the dirt over the years. I didn't have a camera but maybe next week.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

From what you tell us you made some in-roads. Would it be too far fetched to say that one day the tracks would run a decent trip around the area?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 10th, 2009, 3:31pm
One day! Just don't pin me down to which day!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 15th, 2009, 10:11am
We got the first stick in gauge and began by drilling a pilot hole to set the spikes. We did a few that way and then hit them with the jackhammer. It worked well. So we decided to drill and set the spikes in the platform rail before running the jackhammer. In the middle of drilling, the primary hose between the compressor and manifold blew. We can't get it fixed until Monday so we will probably need to work on Sunday since the train show is Saturday and the car should be moved the following week. We might need help. I'll post here if we do need to work on Sunday.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 19th, 2009, 9:58am
We got the two sticks spiked and joined. We also moved the N5c back towards the NX23 then raised the ends of the stick and packed ballast under the ties to keep them up. Then we joined those rails together and pulled the N5c forward onto the new track jut to put some weight on them until the boxcar arrives. And the N5c rolls really well. Guess it thought it was back in service.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Nov 19th, 2009, 10:31am
Were any of you guys working Monday afternoon?  I thought that I saw some fellows around the hack about 4:30.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 20th, 2009, 9:27am
Depend on what time in the afternoon. Karl stops by after work so you may have seen him.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Nov 20th, 2009, 11:21am
4:30PM
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 21st, 2009, 4:55pm
That was probably Karl.
 
Today I went to our train show and stopped by the station on my way home. I took some photos of the work we did this week. Here is the first.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 21st, 2009, 4:57pm
And the second one.
Posted by: Andy_S Posted on: Nov 22nd, 2009, 12:09pm
Great work, gang; how is the ash pit doing?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 23rd, 2009, 3:24pm
We haven't done anything to it since we stopped digging when it got hot. It filled with water and there was a dead rat in there. Guess he couldn't swim after all! It was dry last weekend. And the rat is still in there.
 
We went up yesterday to remove the brake hardware off of the boxcar in preparation to move it, hopefully this week. I'll let you know when it arrives.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 28th, 2009, 10:21am
Yesterday we cleaned out the front of the yard between us and Wawa by removing the fence that had fallen down and the next section back as well. We cleaned up the weeds with the lawn tractor and today they will pull the fence posts. Now there is enough room for the hauler to bring in the boxcar and move his forklift around. This should happen this week. I hope to have photos of it if I am available.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 1st, 2009, 2:31pm
This Saturday and Sunday 12/5 & 12/6 is our annual hayride. Rides start at 10:00am and go until 3:00pm. So if anyone wants to come out and help, be there early.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 7th, 2009, 9:10am
Well, we were rained out Saturday but made up for it on Sunday. The weather was absolultely georgous! The turn out was good as we had two wagons running. Before Wawa, we would turn in the parking area next to the street. Then we turned in the street. But this year we cleaned out the old rail yard and that gave us access to turn through there. Not only did we have extra room this year, the area really looks good now with all of the weeds and trees gone. We even got compliments from the Wawa folks!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 17th, 2009, 11:57am
OK. Why did we clean out the old rail yard, you ask? Well, as I stated, we needed the room to turn the wagons but that was a secondary reason. The primary reason is we are getting ready to receive a boxcar on Monday the 21st.
 
I asked for a boxcar on many RR sites and we got a few responses but the closest one is in Pa. above Reading. It is a fully restored Rock Island PS-1. The PS-1 was used by many railroads so if we do decide to letter it in PRR it won't be a stretch.
 
But here is why I am posting this. We need help starting around 2:00 pm on Monday to move some timbers from under the NX23 out to the street to build a ramp so the lowboy can get over the curbing that was installed when they built the Wawa. We will load them into my pickup and the drive them out to the street and unload them. So if you are available, we sure could use some young bodies. Thanks.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Dec 18th, 2009, 12:54am
I might actually be able to help with this one!  My last final is monday night at 7,  so i'll definitely make an effort to go!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 18th, 2009, 9:13am
Thanks. And we will be back at it early Tuesday morning unloading the boxcar and then putting all of the tools and materials away. And of course touring the new car.
 
I have seen the car a few times and it is in fantastic shape. Looks like it just cam off of the factory floor.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Dec 20th, 2009, 8:22pm
are we still up for tommorow?  i'm not sure what time you want me to show up, but i know i'm still snowed in a tiny bit (gonna have to dig the car out this morning).  
 
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Dec 22nd, 2009, 6:08pm
Did the boxcar arrive Ed.    I would understand if it didn't considering the 24 inches of snow.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Dec 22nd, 2009, 8:18pm
Oh, it arrived.  I've got a ton of photos and videos, but i've gotta upload that, and i'll do that sometime tommorow.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 23rd, 2009, 5:31pm
Yes it did! And Chris, and Jenn, were a big help both days. I forgot my camera again but as Chris said, he didn't.
 
For those of you out there that read but do not post, here is what we have. Several months ago I posted a request for a boxcar and got one reply (but that's all we needed.) It seemed that a gentleman up in Cressona Pa, had a 1959 PS-1, Rock Island car that he fully restored. He had it (and his passenger car) stored with many other private cars, mostly cabooses, on a siding owned by the Reading Northern. They were told they needed to vacate the premises by November 31st. He knew a guy who knew a guy who read my post and they hooked us up. I went up to look at the car back in September and again in November to remove all of the brake hardware hanging below the bottom of the sill so it would fit on the lowboy for hauling. We contracted a machinery mover who subcontracted the hauler and on the 21st, they picked the car up and delivered it that evening. The mover showed up at 7:00 AM Tuesdayand had the task done by 5:00 PM. It would have been done sooner but mud delayed the work by four hours. But she is on her trucks and except for a little salt spray from the roads, she looks good. She is the crown jewel in the collection. So if you are in the area, stop by 3 Fort Dix Road in Pemberton Township, NJ and check her and the rest of our collection out. And if the museum is open, stop in and look around. We have a great selection of railroad books. And don't be afraid to stuff money into the can or jar. These moves cost money, lots of money.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Dec 24th, 2009, 12:42am
Here are some pictures,  I'm going to try and edit a little video together and put it on youtube sometime this week.  
 

 

 
A Bald Eagle was checking out the commotion  
 

 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Dec 24th, 2009, 12:50am
some more pictures i dug up!
 
Jenny pushes the N5C to make room for the boxcar
 

 
Discussing plans
 

 
guiding the boxcar onto the truck pins
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 24th, 2009, 10:13am
Thanks for the photos Chris. Maybe I'll remember my camera one day.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Dec 26th, 2009, 4:15pm
Great to see that it all went off without a hitch.  Nice pictures Chris!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jan 24th, 2010, 10:52am
Yesterday, the section gang, Mark, Tom, Karl and myself, straightened the track under the boxcar. We noticed last week that the last stick was pulled away from the platform about a foot and there was a pile of crushed stone on one of the ties. So how does a section of track get moved and a small pile of crushed stone wind up on the tracks? Your guess would be as good as mine. Now this track movement  happened beore the boxcar arrived because there is no way you are going to move the track with th car sitting on it. So it happened in the snow. Any guesses?
 
We also did some more re-arranging in the boxcar and section house trying to make more room to work in both. We want to work on the N5c to get it weatherproof so we can begin working inside to get it restored. Come spring we will paint the outside with good paint this time.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jan 30th, 2010, 6:00pm
A little further up the track, this is what's happening in Mount Holly.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jan 30th, 2010, 11:41pm
I saw this, my Sister works at that Cosmo's restaurant.  I was wondering what they heavy equipment was about, but now i see they have new track work going in.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Feb 3rd, 2010, 3:32pm
Nothing has been going on now for over a week Chris.  I have no idea why?  
  My wife and I go into Cosmo's a lot.  Which waitress is your sister?

 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 21st, 2010, 10:06am
Yesterday we had an historic wagon ride tour of the facility in conjunction with the college Pinelands courses. We had about 15 folks take the two hour tour of the facility and all of the history that remains at our place.
 
Then our usual cadre of volunteers went to work in the CNJ caboose in an attempt to seal the windows that fell out. We also removed the two toilets that were installed in one end when it was at Kirby's mill. The walls that enclosed these will also be removed so it looks like a caboose once again.The inside is in relatively good shape and we plan to keep it that way.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Mar 21st, 2010, 10:15am
sounds cool!
 
have any of you seen "Pennsy Glory volume 1"? There is about 5 minutes of 1950s videos of Pemberton.   It Features an E6 Atlantic going this way and that, pulling a passenger train.  It doesn't have anywhere else on the line, but It is pretty cool.
 
the DVD pretty much follows the PRR from the Long Island RR all the way to Enola.  The Pemberton part is towards the middle.  
 
Chris
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Mar 21st, 2010, 10:16am
on Feb 3rd, 2010, 3:32pm, Eddie M. wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Nothing has been going on now for over a week Chris.  I have no idea why?  
            My wife and I go into Cosmo's a lot.  Which waitress is your sister?

 
          

 
Kayla would be my sister.  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 22nd, 2010, 2:09pm
Chris, I've never seen that video. Do you know where I can get a copy?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Mar 22nd, 2010, 2:26pm
here it is on their website.  I picked it up at the Transit Museum Store in Philadelphia when i was there.  That was their last copy.  I'm not sure i've seen any store sell it,  but it is on the internet.  
 
https://www.ribbonrail.com/HerronRail/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=41&osCsid=91qdlmct03tc9vahi8lcd503v3
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 24th, 2010, 2:28pm
Thanks Chris. I'll see if we can it for the gift shop at a better price.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 29th, 2010, 8:48am
On Saturday, we commited a neatness inside the NX23. We threw out about one bag of trash. But we did make lots of room inside there just by stacking stuff rather than having it thrown on the floor inside the door. When we started, we had to sneak through the door to gain entry. Now the door opens all the way to the wall! We tried to keep the south wall as empty as possible so in the event we decide to strip the inside wall to acces the outside wall, we can do it without having to move half of the stuff in the car.
 
Next Saturday we are going to wire brush the roof and get it in primer and ready for patching.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Apr 10th, 2010, 1:24pm
My wife and I went down to see all the improvements you have been talking about Easter Sunday.
We liked what we saw that day.
I see that the ash pit is full of water now.
What is the foundation you uncovered nearer to the work shed along the old row?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 12th, 2010, 8:41am
The footings for the freight house and the platform were uncovered years ago. That is the only thing nearer to the section house. Unless you are referring to the round foundation near the tank which is the top of the turntable pit.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 10th, 2010, 9:39am
For those of you that haven't heard, the grant is in and it has been put out to bid. Watch the site for work to begin in a few months. The first things to be done will be the platform reconstruction, with period correct lighting, the parking lot grading,  fencing at the property line and lights at the back of the parking lot. If the funds are available, we will get electricity in the section house, the bunk house will be rebuilt, and there will be 1500' of track down with the freight siding back in operation.
 
Watch the station transform in front of your eyes!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: May 10th, 2010, 9:40am
Almost forgot! We should have our web site up and running in a few weeks. When it is completed, I'll post the address here.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: May 25th, 2010, 12:10am
on May 10th, 2010, 9:39am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
For those of you that haven't heard, the grant is in and it has been put out to bid. Watch the site for work to begin in a few months. The first things to be done will be the platform reconstruction, with period correct lighting, the parking lot grading,  fencing at the property line and lights at the back of the parking lot. If the funds are available, we will get electricity in the section house, the bunk house will be rebuilt, and there will be 1500' of track down with the freight siding back in operation.
 
Watch the station transform in front of your eyes!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

From the looks of what I just read, you guys are dreaming big.  
I really hope it all come to fruition
.  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 7th, 2010, 8:56am
The bids came back too high and have been rejected. That's all we have been told so far.
 
But on a positive note, in the next few weeks we will have our own web site. It will be www.ptht.org. Most of the content from here will be transferred over to our site. It will cover all of the area history, not just the rail history and happenings like here. I'll let you know when it happens.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 14th, 2010, 11:19am
The bid went out again and has come back and been awarded. To enable the contractor to get at the platform, we laid down two sticks of track last week so we can move the platform consist down the trail farther. We got the ties and rail down but ran out of time so Karl is at the station today with a group of volunteers spiking rail.
 
The bid will only get the platform done with lights and maybe electricity to the section house. No bunkhouse, no track!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Sep 8th, 2010, 12:15am
Edward,
     I am happy to read the good news over at the PHT.
When time allows, I wan to go over there and look at what you fellows have accomplished.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 15th, 2010, 2:06pm
Our website is up and running. But it isn't the one  posted soem time ago. t is www.pthtrust.org. It has basic information right now but there is a ton of information to come. We have so much stuff that is tough deciding what gets up there first.
 
But for those of you that haven't been by the station in a while, we put down three sticks of ail and moved all of the rlling stock away from the platform so the contractor as a clean shot to get in and do his work when they finally start.
 
We also have a new addition. We are the recipients of a 1939 Ford railbus. It is rough and needs a lot of work but it does roll rather easily. We hope to get it on rails real soon. We have been told that it came from Ft. Dix but we are still waiting for confirmation on that.
 
We will be there on Saturday working if anybody has some spare time.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 27th, 2010, 9:05am
Nobody commented about our newest addition, the 1939 Ford railbus. This showed up rather quickly about two months ago. It is reported to have run in Ft Dix to move prisoners out to the UT to provide prison labor to work on the rails. The engine and transmission are gone but we have been able to find replacements when the money becomes available. This will make a great ride down the trail when we finally get the bucks to lay the rail. We hope to get it moved into the yard soon so we can get access to work on it.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 9th, 2010, 4:51pm
Saturday we literally drug the rail bus up to the front of the yard. I raked out the ruts later in the trail. We put it up on 60# rail in front of the bumper, between the opening in the fence and the diesel. We have a volunteer who wants to restore the rail bus and the telegraph shack.
 
To that end we are looking for any photos anybody might have of the rail bus in service at Ft. Dix in the '40s. Look in those boxes in teh attic and let us know if you find anything.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: TOMSTV Posted on: Nov 11th, 2010, 6:46pm
For what it's worth,I was able to get a picture up on NJ.COM
 http://photos.nj.com/photogallery/2010/10/pemberton_train_station.html
Posted by: TOMSTV Posted on: Nov 15th, 2010, 9:21pm
Send me some pictures of the place ,and i'll post them on line. I enjoyed seeing the station and it's rr collections,very nice.
 
              tomstv1@msn.com
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Nov 20th, 2010, 10:54pm
I did see the railbus a few weeks ago when I was down there.
I was chatting with Karl Friday and today about the goings on at the PHT.  Like you said, not goodwith the contractors.
Karl mentioned something about getting a 6 cylinder Ford engine to install in the rail bus.  
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: May 22nd, 2011, 12:39pm
I gather you are not too impressed with the outside contractors Ed.  It seems that when a certain entity gets a bug up their ass, that entity wants everyone to feel their scorn.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jun 7th, 2011, 10:52pm
Artifacts or Eyesore?
 
 
PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP — It’s been more than 50 years since a train left the North Pemberton Railroad Station.
 
But there’s been plenty of incoming traffic over the last decade, much to the chagrin of the township’s mayor, who has ordered the Pemberton Historic Trust to remove its fleet of nearly a dozen retired train cars and engines from the outside of the station as well as its interior displays of local history and railroad artifacts.
 
They have until the end of Sunday to comply with the eviction.
 
At issue is the fleet of train cars, which the trust and its former president, Mike Tamn, have acquired over the last 11 years for display outside the township-owned station, home to a local history museum and gift shop operated by the trust.
 
Tamn considers the vehicles, many of them rusty and in disrepair, historic artifacts that should be preserved and displayed.
 
Other residents, including Mayor David Patriarca, consider them eyesores that make the station exterior appear more akin to a junkyard than a tourist destination.
 
The two opinions clashed last month when Tamn’s latest acquisition — a 100-ton 1930s engine — arrived at the station from the former Roebling Steel plant in Florence.
 
Patriarca claims the addition violated a municipal order that the trust stop moving vehicles to the property and necessitated the township ending its agreement allowing the organization operate on-site.
 
“We told them that we did not want any other trains being brought in or we would have issues,” Patriarca said Thursday. “We made it clear that we didn’t want anything else on the property and (that) they have no authority to bring in new items.”
 
Tamn doesn’t deny that he arranged for the train’s delivery, but he stressed its historic value. Furthermore, he said he and other members of the trust negotiated an agreement with Township Manager Christopher Vaz on Wednesday that would permit the trust to remain in the station if he temporarily stepped down as president.
 
“If I stepped down, that would be it; everything would be able to remain as is,” said Tamn, adding that he officially vacated the office of trust president Thursday. “That was the agreement. If (Patriarca) changes it, then I guess we’ll have to call our attorneys to deal with it. But that’s something we hoped to avoid.”
 
He said the trust has operated its museum in the train station for more than 11 years. It is typically open Wednesday to Sunday from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. and is filled with regional historical artifacts related to the railroad, cranberry and blueberry industries as well as the Pinelands.
 
Patriarca denied that any agreement was reached. He said that it was suggested that Tamn should step down, but that current conditions prohibit the trust from remaining.
 
“They have shown they are not going to comply with the township,” the mayor said. “It’s not done out of spite. There is no reason to have any issue with the trust other than them posing a liability to the township. There are environmental issues and a potential for injury there. There is also a perception that they are allowing a junkyard to exist there. We have been trying to get them to restore these trains, but we have seen little or no progress.”
 
Tamn said that significant work has already been done to restore the trains and that more work was planned. He also said the trust helps maintain the station and the adjacent rails-to-trails path, which is also township-owned, at least for now.
 
The station and 1¾-mile path are expected to join the county’s parks system as part of a 2009 land-swap agreement between the township and Burlington County Board of Freeholders.
 
Under the agreement, the county would take possession of the train station and path in return for 11 acres of vacant land on Pemberton-Browns Mills Road between the county’s Buttonwood Hospital and municipal building.
 
The deal is expected to be finalized after the township completes about $339,000 in repairs and renovations to the station, including a new wooden platform around the building, a parking lot and a handicapped ramp. The work is being funded with a U.S. Department of Transportation Enhancement Program grant.
 
Tamn said that the work is nearly completed and that the trust is looking forward to continuing operations under the county parks system. He said he expected the trust’s exhibits and train cars would remain.
 
“I think it would be quite an asset for them,” Tamn said. “Hopefully, when the county takes it, we’ll be able to put down some good track and move up the cars so that people will be able to see them better.”
 
Trust volunteer Gary Ellis said he believes the county will want to keep the rail cars on-site.
 
“I think the county would love it,” Ellis said Friday at the station. “It might take a little money to get it more appreciable, but I think they will like it.”
 
County spokesman Ralph Shrom said that the county was not involved with any dispute between the trust and township, but that it planned to inspect the site before taking possession.
 
“We’re going to take a look at what’s on-site now, because obviously once we take control of the site, we’d be responsible for it,” Shrom said.
 
What happens next? No one seems to know for sure, although it appears unlikely that the trust will be able to move the train cars anytime soon.
 
“There’s no way we can move 600 tons of property in one weekend,” Tamn said. “Some of those trains took five to eight months to move.”
 
Patriarca said no decision has been made about what will happen if the trains remain past Sunday’s deadline.
 
“That is yet to be determined. I believe it becomes abandoned property and the township will have to figure out how to deal with it,” he said.
 
Councilwoman Sherry Scull, a longtime trust member, said that she hopes cooler heads somehow prevail and that the trust is permitted to remain.
 
“The trust is important to the township, so I would hope that we can put personalities aside and reach an agreement for the betterment of the community,” Scull said.
 
 
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jun 7th, 2011, 11:10pm
well that's super fantastic.  I really hope this stuff doesn't end up scrapped where it is.  
 
I can see the issued that the township has though, because much of the equipment there  IS all rusty and it doesn't necessarily look good to non rail fans.    
 
At the very least,  I think some of this stuff should get a new coat of paint (work i'm totally willing to do, and this summer is looking fairly open for me).
 
I imagine scrubbing away the rust (at least on the outside) would go a long way towards changing public opinion.  
 
What is going to happen now, though?   how threatened is the museum?  
 
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jun 14th, 2011, 12:47am
We stopped by Sunday afternoon and nobody was there from the Trust.  My wife commented how nice things are looking around the station area.  My wife and I share similiar feelings on what positive aspects the train museum has to offer.  There has to be an inside scoop on what Dave Patriarca really wants.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jun 14th, 2011, 1:59am
I to was at the station just today, studying  the equipment and enjoying the trail. other than some "grafitti" (side walk chalk) on the gondola,  things seem no worse than they were.  
 
checked out the railbus, and the 45 tonner.  neat pieces, but hopefully an engine will be forthcoming for the rail bus.  
 
Right now, that NX23 concerns me the most.  How do you repair that thing?  can the wood be replaced from the inside, or would the metal braces need to be removed?  The wood isn't so bad on the "north" side, but the south side is just starting to splinter.  
 
Still, nothing there is really doomed, they all just need polish and paint.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jun 18th, 2011, 1:41am

Congrats to Chris and Ed for speaking up on the record!
 
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:00 am | Updated: 7:00 am, Fri Jun 17, 2011.  
 
Pemberton Twp. still at odds over train station By Mark Zimmaro Staff writer Calkins Media, Inc. | 1 comment  
 
PEMBERTON TOWNSHIP — The township is still planning to remove several rail cars from the North Pemberton Railroad Station as well as the volunteer group that brought them there.
 
Despite pleas from a council member and a few members of the audience to work out a deal, officials said they don’t intend to renew a license with the township’s Historic Trust to operate out of the newly renovated station, which serves as a museum on Fort Dix Road.
 
   
 
The rift occurred when former Historic Trust president Michael Tamm authorized a 100-ton 1930s-era engine to be stored at the station, joining a fleet of about a dozen other rail cars that are in deteriorating condition.
 
After asking for permission to store the train at the site, Tamm was told in February that the township disapproved his request and told the trust to keep the site status quo.
 
Tamm had the engine delivered May 23. It was placed on land dedicated as an easement by neighboring Wawa to be used as a parking lot for the station once renovations are complete.
 
Wawa attorneys notified the township May 26 that action would be taken if the engine was not removed within 48 hours of the letter.
 
The letter from Timothy M. Prime LLC of Evesham states that “Wawa intends to bring action against your organization for ejectment, and for the damages by virtue of your breach of the easement agreement, including reasonable attorney’s fees and cost of suit.”
 
In response, Mayor David Patriarca ordered the removal of the rail cars as well as all other Historic Trust property last week. The township also notified the trust that it had sent a letter to Wawa requesting that the company enforce the terms of the easement.
 
At Wednesday’s Township Council meeting, Patriarca said the municipality is “negotiating terms for removal of the items.”
 
Despite the threat of a lawsuit, some people believe that the collection of historic but run-down rail cars and engines should stay or that the township should at least keep the volunteer group that has been operating out of the hub since the early 1990s.
 
Councilwoman Sherry Scull praised the Historic Trust for its volunteer work over the years and said she was unhappy that the two sides have not reached an agreement to continue to allow the trust to operate.
 
“I work for the schools, and when I drive by the train station, it’s hard to explain to children that they can’t go to the train station because adults don’t know how to behave,” said Scull, who is also a longtime trust member. “I hope individuals will put aside their petty differences for the best interest of the township.”
 
Patriarca said his goal was to continue pursuing a land swap with the county, which would take over operations of the train station once a formal deal is finalized. He previously said the extra rail cars could jeopardize a trade with the county.
 
“My hopes are still to have this site become part of the county parks system,” Patriarca said. “I think this would be a perfect fit for Rails to Trails. The only better thing would be a real rail service connecting to New York. But that’s not going to happen.”
 
Bill Bolger, a historian with the U.S. National Park Service for nearly 30 years, urged officials to preserve the railroad station, which was built in 1892 and is undergoing renovation.
 
“I’ve been very impressed with the volunteer effort there,” Bolger said. “I’m not personally involved with it, but I take friends there and it’s a great facility for our area. ... It would be a tragedy to lose.”
 
Christian Brown, a resident who helped restore rail cars at the station as an Eagle Scout project, also lobbied to keep the cars.
 
“It may look junky now,” Brown said, “but if you give it time, it can be put back together. I think over time it would be a good thing to preserve.”
 
During the meeting, trust vice president Ed Rizzo met with township Business Administrator Chris Vaz in a private room to discuss the station.
 
Details of their conversation were not available, although Patriarca predicted that nothing would alter the township’s plans to remove the rail cars.
 
“I don’t think anything is going to change,” he said at the end of the council meeting. “(The trust) had the opportunity to operate the information center out of that building, but they changed their mission by bringing in all these unauthorized items.”
 
Posted by: robertjohndavis Posted on: Aug 1st, 2011, 3:25pm

Having made contact with "both sides" of the story, it is clear that there is something the rail preservation community can do to keep the Pemberton museum collection together, on site and allow the museum to continue with their plans for restoring the equipment and interpreting the site.
 
What can you do?
 
If you are in NJ, attend the Pemberton Town Council Meeting this Wednesday August 3rd at 6:30pm. Location is 500 Pemberton-Browns Mills Road, Pemberton, New Jersey. Phone - 609.894.3314 The mayor's claim of ownership and intent to quickly auction the equipment will be discussed. The council has *not* approved the auction. It has been a unilateral decision by the mayor. It would be great to show support for the museum if you are available.
 
If you cannot attend, please send an e-mail BEFORE noon on Wednesday to each of council members. You can find their contact info at: http://www.pemberton-twp.com/township_council
 
What can you tell them? There are any number of messages they need to hear, from what benefits a museum brings to a town... to the historic nature of the collection... to the concerns that the mayor is pushing for an auction of the equipment rather than working with the town and county to continue progress at the museum.
 
These guys need help. They have a political drama/vendetta being played out... they were recent the victims of metal theft... and yet, they still intend to complete their vision for a first class museum and interpretive site.
 
This is the next step. See if the town council will take action and delay/cancel the auction.
 
Where to go after that will be decided by events of Weds night.
 
Hope for the best, and raise your voices!
 
Rob
 
PS: I am not directly involved with the Pemberton Historic Trust, but I am concerned - as are many of you - about the legal issues involved and the threat that a scrapper could end up with the whole collection.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 12th, 2011, 10:31am
The NX-23 is what is termed an externally braced car. So the car was built from the outside in. So to restore it, it must be done from the inside out. The sad thing is that the interior is in really nice condition. So the car must be emptied, ( a huge undertaking since it used for staorgae and is full), then the walls must be stripped carefully and marked so they go back in where they came out. Then the exterior must be stripped off, the metal cleaned and painted, then reassembled with new planks, and then the interior reassembled. They do have the bay windows although both are in bad shape. It is the largest single project on site and when I was in charge of the volunteers, I had it last on the schedule of things to be done along with the reconstruction of the N6b. Both will require huge donations for materials and would have to be handled accordingly. But there have been inquiries from local folks about contributions. But it is all speculation if the mayor continues on his path of political self destruction.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 12th, 2011, 10:39am
As of this morning, the mayor has canceled the sale (whose legality was being questioned) but now plans on impounding the equipment using an ordinance written for abandoned cars and trucks. But here is the really strange part that proves that there is more than going on than the arrival of the new engine. The mayor said he wants all of the equipment gone. But now he is going to have it removed as abandoned but has said that the trust can have it back if they pay the storage fees and pay to move it back. HUH?   So if he wants it all gone, why is now saying it can be bought and returned?   Somebody please explain this to me.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
 
Oh, and one way to help is to go to the county website and send e-mails to the freeholders asking them to step in and stop this insanity. Since they have been a leader in government in historic preservation with the outstanding job they have done with Smithville, they would be the ones that could take the station to the next lavel and the station would provide the eastern anchor to their historic holdings.
 
And I too am not a representative of the trust. Just a supportive citizen.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Sep 5th, 2011, 2:11am
The mayor wanted Mike Tamm gone, so he steps down. The hurricane comes and now a lot of the historical paper articles are soaked with rain water because the township would not allow members of the PHRT go in the basement before the hurricane.  The mayor says he wants some of the cars scrapped and is using this conjerted up complaint that citizens in the area have been complaining of the site of the rail cars, though they are stored far from the road.  
Karl showed me a couple of the ledgers he is drying out.
He told me there was going to be a protest march on Thursday.
So what happened Mr. R?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 18th, 2011, 11:58am
We had 9 volunteers out Saturday and we got the 45 tonner in primer. If I get the opportunity this week I will stripe it as we can get it in green this Saturday. Here are a few before and after shots.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Sep 18th, 2011, 12:02pm
And now the after shot!!!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 18th, 2011, 12:26pm
Geez Eddie! Give me some time will ya! This resizing takes time!
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 18th, 2011, 12:30pm
The other way before............
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Sep 18th, 2011, 12:31pm
......and after.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Sep 18th, 2011, 10:55pm
Very Nice!  wish i could have gotten out there! maybe this saturday...
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Sep 18th, 2011, 11:17pm
Bonnie and I went out there this afternoon. I spoke with Gary ,walked the grounds...very nice...poor literature.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2011, 9:53am
Here is a shot of the 45 tonner in color. But since we are locked out, again, the windows aill have to wait.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 27th, 2011, 12:15am
I have a field trip scheduled for November 15 to the Pemberton Historic Trust.   I would hope there will not be another lock out for the school children.
BTW the switcher looks fine!
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 29th, 2011, 1:39pm
I spoke with Mike Tamn yesterday afternoon.  I have everything set up for November 18th for the tour.  He is a very nice man to talk with.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 5th, 2011, 10:57am
We have to request the key from the township whenever we want get into the building. Is this any way to treat a township entity?
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Dec 3rd, 2011, 9:01am
My students and I had a very nice, informative tour (11/17/11) of the facilities by Mr. and Mrs. Tamn as well as Karl Smith on the outside displays. (Excellent job done by all)
My students who attended enjoyed the trip and the information and at least one of them wants to volunteer whenever he can on a weekly basis.
How about that?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 24th, 2011, 10:49am
Sorry for the delay in responding but I only check this site ince or so a month since there are only two or three people reading the posts.
 
I heard from many people that the kids did enjoy themselves and some were even talking about the trip weeks later. But since we have been evicted, there probably won't be any museum for them to visit or volunteer at very soon. Sad that a single man can wield that much power. Equally as sad is the fact that the council can be bullied by this man and his minnions.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: 69boss429 Posted on: Dec 27th, 2011, 12:50pm
has the group looked for another location yet?
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Jan 2nd, 2012, 10:31pm
on Dec 27th, 2011, 12:50pm, 69boss429 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
has the group looked for another location yet?

 
 
Everyone who knows me knows my feelings on this subject.  However, I have said in the past and I'll say it again, try coming to Mount Holly.
The station is vacant and for sale.  The yard or what's left of it is unused.
My feeling is, that our town council will have a different view of the Trust than that of Pemberton's mayor.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 5th, 2012, 11:19am
According to the article in the Inquirer, the trust is looking to buy the Mt Holly station but it is a purchase and the trust doesn't have the money to buy it so they are looking for donations. Now if the owner would decide to donate the station to the trust, it would be a huge step forward.
 
And from what I've heard, there are so many businesses and people in Mt Holly that want the trust, as compared to Pemberton whose mayor is blind to what the trust offers to the township. And the history that will be lost is a crime.
 
I looked at the building and the railbed and it looks like the trains would fit there real nice. And the "trestle" really doesn't look like a trestle anymore and I am wondering if the ground that washed out could be refilled and the trail widened enough to lay rail and still keep the hiking trail.  
 
It offers a lot of possibilities. And if you look at old maps, you will see that there used to be a small yard across the street complete with a turntable and roundhouse.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Feb 12th, 2012, 2:01pm
The owner of the train station died suddenly about 1 month ago.]The trestle is still there, the Pennsylvania illegally filled the trestle in about 45 years ago.  The track was only pulled up from in front of the station about 1 year ago.  The Trust could hook into the not so active track on the other side of the street.  We are excited about the Trust coming, we've been lobbying the Trust since this action by Pemberton's mayor.
Mt. Holly still has the crane from the old round house.
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 24th, 2012, 2:57pm
So is anything moving forward Ed?
Posted by: bassman Posted on: May 30th, 2012, 2:11pm
on Mar 24th, 2012, 2:57pm, Eddie M. wrote:       (Click here for original message)
So is anything moving forward Ed?

 
Apparently not. Hope the equipment has not been cut up.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Aug 10th, 2012, 3:16pm
I am sorry that I did not answer sooner, but I totally forgot about this site until today.
 
The trust tried to get the money to buy Mt. Holly but fell way short. The trust did make a presentation to a judge in the county who heard an argument from the township solicitor on one point and one point only and, surprise, ruled in the township's favor. By doing so she kept herself in the good graces of the county freeholders but now she can say she ruled on the one point, keeping herself in good stead of the people. This is known as playing both sides. The trust has appealed the decision to the state. This is supposed to be reviewed in it's entirety by three judges and could take up to six months to accomplish.  
 
To date, nothing has been cut up. The township did take all of our good ties and a lot of our metal and made retaining walls in the streets dept yard. This is in violation of the EPA since in the state of NJ you cannot use ties for landscaping since the rain will leach chemicals out of the wood into the ground. And this area is next to the wetlands. Again the mayor is thumbing his nose at all authority. They then dumped the rest of the ties on the trail. Remember they were bundled nicely beside the trail. They also moved the barrels of nuts, bolts, spikes and other assorted metal up front. These are being stolen a little at a time.
 
So in closing, the council did nothing to help us. They could at any time pass a resolution to put the original lease back into full effect and bring this mess to an end. Only one member has stood up in our defense and that member is Rick Prichard. He is running in November and should be re-elected because he heard the outcry of the taxpayers to keep the museum. Just what he was elected to do, serve the people. Sherry and Diane should be thrown out. Both are more concerned with other things than the museum and did not heed the voters calls to keep the musuem. They have their own agenda and should be removed from office.
 
Remember that in all of the council meetings, many different people spoke on behalf of the museum. Only one person is against the trust. Yet the council knuckled under to that one person, the mayor.
 
But there is another problem. With the station being closed, the gift shop, and their primary source of income, is shut off. But the bills still flow in. So if anybody wants to make a tax deductible deduction, send it to:
 
PTHT
PO Box 1647
Browns Mills, NJ, 08015
 
And get out and vote for Rick and against Diane and Sherry.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 20th, 2012, 10:08am
Our 14th annual train show is November 17th at the Pemberton Township High School at 148 Arney's Mount Road, Pemberton, NJ, 08068. 6' tables are $15.00 each. Admission is $4.00, children under 10 are free. Show hours are 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM. To reserve a table call 609-784-8721 or email pthtrust@comcast.net.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Oct 26th, 2012, 12:15am
on Oct 20th, 2012, 10:08am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Our 14th annual train show is November 17th at the Pemberton Township High School at 148 Arney's Mount Road, Pemberton, NJ, 08068. 6' tables are $15.00 each. Admission is $4.00, children under 10 are free. Show hours are 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM. To reserve a table call 609-784-8721 or email pthtrust@comcast.net.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
 
We will love going to it as always Ed.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 27th, 2012, 9:46am
See you there!
 
Mr. Ed
Posted by: PRR4811 Posted on: Jan 21st, 2013, 9:17pm
The ties the township absconded with - did they build a retaining wall at the municipal builidng? If so, might it be on land they took from the Army?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 9th, 2013, 10:46am
Yes, they did use them as well as the 100+ year old timbers from the coal dock to build retaining walls around their stone, gravel, salt, etc piles in the public works yard. It is not land they got from the Army. (I think you have confused the county land with the Army.) The problem is that in the state of NJ, you are not allowed to use RR ties for landscape ties because of the chemicals they use in them. And these retaining walls are only 20-30 feet from the wetlands. But as we all know by now, there are those in the township government that are above the law. Who says it doesn't hurt to have friends in high places. They took all of the ties and brought back what they didn't want and the cut-offs of what they did use and just dumped them on the trail. They also brought all of the cans of spikes, nuts and bolts up from where they were stored on the trail and put them next to the sidewalk that runs up to Wawa. Many of those contain a lot less than when they were moved.
 
They also have dumped waste and junk cars on the county land. But again with a friend in the county, they get away with a lot.  
 
Sad, very sad.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Feb 11th, 2013, 1:25pm
WHOOPS! At our meeting on Sunday, I mentioned your comment about the Army ground and I stand corrected. The ground to the right of the township building is indeed Army ground. It seems the township cleared the undergrowth and is using it to park the police vehicles on. No one can say for sure whether the Army gave them permission to do so. But since they have ignored so many other government agencies, it stands to reason they would ignore the Army if they asked them to vacate the property.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 7th, 2013, 12:12am
So if this is all correct Edward, then it stands to reason that perhaps the Trust should contact local television stations and broadcast what has transpired.  You guys have had just about everything taken from you, what have you got to loose now?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Mar 7th, 2013, 5:03pm
One of the philly channels did come out and interview Mike about 6 weeks ago. They didn't give him much time and then they went up to Wawa and interviewed a few people, most of whom said the "junk" ought to be removed.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Apr 28th, 2013, 1:07pm
For the one or two people who read this, we have moved the 35 barrels of tie plates out of the grounds to a secure location. We are trying to get a truck to move the rails out and then the ties. But where to move them to is a mystery. The museum is about half empty with several storage facilities donating space or giving us a special rate. The rolling stock will have to wait until we buy the Mt. Holly station before we can move them. But we are up against a deadline to do something with them imposed by the judge who in order not to lose face, will not rescind her order even in the face of all of the outpouring of support from any and all historic organizations in the state and the mayor of Mt. Holly.  
 
And some of us were thinking that we would have lots of room to put the cars and move them around. WRONG! The only negotiations with CSAO is the get permission to use the railbed beside the station, not the old rail yard.  
 
On the positive side, the new township administrator has turned out to be a pretty decent guy. He has given us access to the property now for two solid weeks.  
 
And we still do not have the money to buy the station nor does Mt. Holly. The heirs (all three) will not donate it to us because they see dollar signs. The county will not chip in so at this point we are in the moving mode to get as much stuff in secure off site locations.
 
Feel free to stop out any Saturday to help out.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 1st, 2013, 10:21am
We are out of the station. It is empty.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2013, 12:46am
What happened with the railcars?
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 18th, 2013, 3:00pm
Nothing.................yet.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: ClearBoard Posted on: Jun 19th, 2013, 4:26pm
The following summary is offered regarding disbursement of full scale railroad equipment at Pemberton.  Information provided herein is obtained from copies just received from the court appointed Receiver.
 
Initial bids received as a result of the April 1st inspection of equipment were reported by the Receiver to the Court in mid May, 2013, with copies provided to legal counsel for each interested party.
 
A Notice of Motion by the Receiver Seeking the Approval for Bids Received and other matters dated June 14th, 2013, was submitted to the Court with copies sent to interested parties and counsel.  Many of the bids were accompanied with voluminous material regarding why the bidders wished to obtain the railroad equipment and property.  
 
In a nutshell, I understand that after careful consideration the Receiver recommends the following equipment be offered to the following bidders under conditions listed in the Motion:
 
Georges Creek Railroad – PS 1 Boxcar, wooden shanty, wooden waiting shanty (two items) and metal bumper post.
 
New Hope & Ivyland Railway – LVRR hopper car
 
Pennsy Railway Restorations, Inc. – N6 Frame and trucks
 
Morristown & Erie Railway – 85 pieces of loose rail, 5 switch frogs & points, 2 freight trucks with steel wheels sets, other miscellaneous track materials, and all cross ties.
 
Red Lion Metals – the 100 ton and 45 ton locomotives, the gondola, the flat car, the tank car and remaining wheel sets, all to be scrapped on-site.
 
In addition, the Motion also calls attention to material in the station that was on loan from Donna Stone.
 
From a separate Notice of Motion by the Receiver, I understand that the deadline for cross motions is no later than June 28, 2013, and the deadline for further reply to any cross motions is no later than July 8, 2013.   I also understand that the deadline for any additional bids is no later than June 26, 2013.  Finally, I understand that the Receiver will apply to the Court on July 12, 2013 at 11:00-hours or as soon thereafter as counsel may be heard.
 
Details related to the bids are extensive and provided in the Motion.    
 
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Jun 20th, 2013, 2:35am
Whats going to happen to equipment not listed, such as the N5C, NX23, and the CNJ Caboose?   The latter 2 are wood, are they just not desirable to anyone?
 
Chris
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Jun 23rd, 2013, 12:52pm
We now know what might happen to the CNJ caboose. There is still no interest in the N5c or the NX23 as far as I know. The N5c doesn't surprise me because there are so many of them out there, but I was surprised that the scrappers didn't want it. And the NX23 is only one of maybe 5 or 6 left in the country. And although the outside looks horrible, the inside is in great shape! The sad thing is the inside would have to be taken apart carefully to gain access to the outside. But it didn't garner any interest from the preservation community or the scrappers.
 
But the fat lady hasn't sung yet so there is still hope that we can save all of it and go to a friendly location that wants us.
 
Later!
Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Oct 18th, 2013, 10:43am
This will be my final post to this site since it is apparent that nobody reads these threads any longer.
 
The CNJ, N5C, N6B and NX23 cabooses have found owners. The Railbus also has been moved by it's new owner. The box car's new/old owner hasn't moved it yet. This after his complaining that the brakes weren't put back on. Good thing too since they would have had to been removed to move it, again.
 
The 100 ton Ge diesel was cut up on site as was the tank car and gondola. The hopper and N6b were moved. The flat car is still sitting. From what I've heard, a group bought it but only for it's trucks.
 
Good bye PTHT.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: CHESSIEMIKE Posted on: Oct 18th, 2013, 11:48am
on Oct 18th, 2013, 10:43am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
This will be my final post to this site since it is apparent that nobody reads these threads any longer.

Sorry to hear you feel this way. Even though I did not respond to every post, that does not mean it went unread. I'm sure there are others that have read them also. I, for one, am grateful to you for keeping us up to date on the happenings there.
CHESSIEMIKE
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: May 25th, 2014, 11:31am
 What really bothers me is that Mike Tamn knew that this fight would be a tough and expensive one.   Mount Holly has a station for sale ($135,000. as I write)  The money wasted fight Mr. Patriarca now is lost.  However, I still believe Mt. Holly is a viable alternative to regroup. We have the direct line into Camden as well as a very dead yard (Or what's left of it.)  I have spoken to him, Karl and Garry more recently again, on this subject alone
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 8th, 2015, 12:37pm
And so it appears most people could give 2 cents about this subject anymore.   The museum has been mostly dispersed, The mayor of Pemberton still rules with an "iron fist" and the Mount Holly train station lies in fallow awaiting someone to buy it.  The Mount Holly railroad yard is mostly gone and overgrown and barely a train makes it's way down this area anymore.  Yet, there is no movement among the ranks of the Historic Trust to move it's head quarters to a waiting Mount Holly...
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Mar 8th, 2015, 9:57pm
I still keep an ear out,  but now it seems no one from Pemberton posts anything at all.  
 
I haven't heard anything new in over a year.    Out of the blue,  I did get a call from Mr. Tamn about helping with a railroad structure they had moved from the station,  but that was the last I'd heard.     I still have some magazines they let me borrow.    
 
 
As far as moving to Mount Holly goes,  I'm told there are a variety of complications with that move.   As I understand it,  Conrail still owns the yard.    As for the station,  the current owners appeared to have been aware of the drama unfolding in Pemberton,  and apparently assumed they had the trust in a poor bargaining position regarding the price.    
 
Besides,   Mount Holly isn't that much "nicer" than Pemberton.   Apparently, the busted windows in the N5C  were all caused while that caboose sat at Mount Holly for a day or two before the move to Pemberton.   It doesn't help that squatters have taken up shelter in that semi-abandoned transfer caboose,  and the old railroad  ruins immediately east of the station.  
 
I don't think Mount Holly really makes that great of a location in the long run.    
 
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: Mar 14th, 2015, 2:32pm
Good to hear from you GCE.  The Mount Holly area/ yard as you know is not used.  The station is still for sale and the price has dropped even more.  I know the owner of the station and she would not mind selling it to an entity who will take care of it as well as pay the more than reasonable price for it.  The caboose is crappy now.  The volunteers would stabilize it in good time if everything went down in good order.  Talking to some of the volunteers, they have already told me a good amount of times that they could lay down some of the track to the station and across Madison with allowances from the Township.  Though Conrail/ Norfolk Southern owns the row, they do not make use of it and I am sure agreements would be worked out for shared use.  Especially if it were just weekends when no trains run at all.  All of this can be done with the right leadership and mindset in place.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Mar 16th, 2015, 7:35pm
I still think the main problem is that  Mount Holly just  isn't a nice place.   I'm very confident that any rail equipment they brought down there would be vandalized and abused within a month of being there.     Indeed,   people were already breaking into the equipment at Pemberton,  but at least there it wasn't in the middle of town.    
 
 
Connecting with this issue  is the condition of the Trust's equipment.     I don't want to sound too critical of the trust,  but they rarely seemed to work on maintaining the equipment.    For years I'd ask about it,   and they'd always have some other project they wanted to do.  
 
There are two issues I have with this-
 
1.)  There is the Broken Window Theory.  
 
If you move those beat up cabooses,  out to Mount Holly,  they're gonna get vandalized, and no one is going to care, especially if they sit rusty, rotting and unmaintained.  
 
Again,  look at that transfer caboose already at Mount Holly.     THAT is what all those other cabooses will turn into if some effort isn't made to keep them looking good.  Go actually stand on the platform and look inside,  that thing is a roofless rotting hulk.  
 
The people squatting in the ruins just down hill from that station aren't going to think twice about squatting in an unguarded caboose.    
 
 
 
2.)  One of the reasons they had a bad relationship with the Pemberton in the first place is because they DID NOT make the trains look good, a CRITICAL mistake.    Everytime I went there,  I asked them when they planned to paint up some of the equipment or work on it.    
 
They always told me they didn't have the time or money,    but then somehow, they'd find time and money to buy a new locomotive,  a boxcar with a workshop,   a railbus,  and they found the money to haul an oil tank out of the woods,  paint that up, and put it on a concrete platform.
 
I was even told once that they wanted it all rusty on purpose because steel mill work does that to equipment...   but thats not something the public cares about or understands.  
 
NONE of this is a secret.  I'm generally supportive of the trust,  but they've given any opposition all the ammunition they need to shoot them down.    
 
The Bottom Line:
 
 
I wouldn't even DREAM of moving to a new location until some of those cabooses are presentable  (Windows in the N5C, maybe even a restored interior for tours,  end platforms and railings on the CNJ caboose).     At least then you could make the case that they are no longer planning on leaving rusting hulks around.  
 
No one is going to want decrepit trains in their town,  and they'll just be magnets for vandalism.     Putting in the work would atleast show  Mount Holly (or any other location) that they mean business.  
 
Of course,  the real solution is to just own the land privately.  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 10th, 2015, 3:27pm
Hi guys! Long time since I have posted. Now that I have retired I have time to scan the net for interesting stuff so I looked up some old bookmarks and found this one, again.
 
I haven't had anything to do with the trust for over three or four years, I guess. The few e-mails I sent to members went unanswered so I guess I am on the $hit list.
 
Before I left the trust, and after the trust meeting, several of us walked the yard to see what we could make use of if we got access to it. No one is using that yard anymore because most of the rail bars and bolts are gone, most likely taken by the locals for spending money. They are gone out about a mile from Madison. And you cannot lay rail on top of the road and if you did, where would it go? The station side of the road only goes a half of a mile or so before it hits the old trestle which is long gone and the walking trail will not support train or rail.
 
And like was stated above, Mt. Holly is not a nice place to park anything much less a restored rail car or two. And I have no idea what is left and where it might be. The only thing I know is that the artifacts are in storage but you all know that. They had a fund raiser to get money for that storage.
 
We also looked at the transfer caboose, or what's left of it, and it had no roof so it would probably be better off scrapped.
 
The last thing that I heard about the station was that the owners, yes, more than one, want to sell it and the price hasn't changed much. Keep in mind this info is a few years old. Many years ago, the original owner had lowered the price to $98,000.00 and it still went unsold. Now I understand it is up around $138,000.00. A donation to the museum would allow them a hefty write off but they want money, not tax breaks. That is sad since around ten years ago the trust had applied for a grant and was given one but it was for real estate acquisition. But who knew they would need a new location back then. The grant wasn't enough to buy it but it would have put a really nice down payment on it.
 
Well, enough ramblings. Have a great Thanksgiving all!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Nov 10th, 2015, 5:56pm
Well,  you're the first I've heard from in a while.   I tried contacting some of the Pemberton People through the RYPN interchange, but no response.  
 
 
I'm not sure if its gone for a mile from Madison,  but you preach to the choir.  It would be way to easy to vandalize any trains parked there,   since  except for the end by Madison Avenue,  visibility is low from most publicly accessible places.    
 
I do wish I knew what happened to those cabooses,  but I never get more than "we have them safe some place."   I understand they want to protect them,   but  its not like I'm going to damage or vandalize equipment my friends and I put work into  saving!     Can't really steal a full sized caboose anyway,  though I suppose my girlfriend did managed to push that N5C a good distance....    
 
Sometimes, I wonder if they just told me they saved that CNJ caboose just because it would be a tad heart breaking to learn that it was smashed into splinters and dumped into a dumpster some place.  
 
What really sucks,  is now I have a regular job and free weekends,  and I could actually put some time into a project like that.   I kind of miss working with my hands,  now that I don't work in the diesel shop anymore and my job is all laboratory stuff.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 11th, 2015, 11:02am
I remember your girlfriend pushing the car. It proves two things. The car was well lubricated and don't mess with her!  
 
The fine mayor of that township (sic) is still after the trust just to prove he is more powerful than Mike Tamn (which he is). And to that end, the location of the cars (however many there are) will remain a secret.  
 
I am on the outs since I was in contact with the guy from Allair, J.R., who was in contact with the mayor so they think I was feeding him secrets. Paranoia at it's finest. He was trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement between them. But Mike kept getting in the way. It was sad to see all of the blood sweat and tears get crushed and scrapped just to prove who had the biggest johnson. Mike was constantly poking Dave in the eye and daring him to do something. When the last diesel became available from Roebling, Mike told Dave we were bringing it in. Dave said no so Mike brought it in anyway. At the trustee meeting where we discussed bringing it in, we, the trustees, were told that the township had no say over what we did on site since there were no restrictions in our license (fancier term for a lease). So why did Mike find it necessary tell Dave we were getting another loco? I feel that if we just brought it in, Dave would have griped and then put a limit on what we could bring in which would have been OK and we would still be in business. And even when he said we had to limit the collection to 10 pieces, Mike said no, we can have as many as we want. Here is another kicker. There were people interested in the 100 tonner, so we could have sold that off and gotten some much needed funds and kept the township happy. But then it would look like we were capitulating to Dave and we couldn't do that.
 
So the bottom line is that I now have extra time on my hands and no railroad museums to put that time to good use. And I do not want to drive more than an hour to donate my time so Allair, Winchester Western and the folks up above Trenton are out.
 
Oh, well!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Housedavid1 Posted on: Nov 14th, 2015, 12:24pm
Ed:
Good to see you back on line.  Hope you are enjoying your retirement.  
 
You summarized the situation at Pemberton quite nicely.  There’s a similar situation brewing up here, where again, its never a good idea to tick off the landlord.
 
Its amazing how the cabooses did simply disappear but at least they are safe (we assume) where ever that may be.  I’m sure there are more than a few people who would like to help out financially, yet there seems to be little interest in outsider as a source of funds.   Very strange.
 
Even as  I reached out to get brasses for the CNJ caboose trucks during the short stint that I owned it, people who had such things were not inclined to help out.  That was sad as well.    
 
In truth the Pemberton site was a great place for a museum with great visibility, plenty of property, a station already in place, but I have to admit though, and this does hurt, the site looks better today with out the stuff sitting there.   Perhaps some day, with some changes in people, a couple of the cabooses can once again sit next to the station, but in pristine condition.  
 
In the mean time, Richland Village could always use someone to take care of their NC5.  I helped the town get some paint on it and it looked pretty good, but the interior needs work.  Ed, what’s the distance like to Richland Village for you?
 
J.R.
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 14th, 2015, 2:25pm
About an hour. But since they are not a non profit, my mileage cannot be deducted at tax time. But if I find myself bored at any time that might change. Send me some contact information.
 
The CNJ caboose would have made a nice project. And yes, I agree with you the site looks good empty, but it would have been one good looking place if a certain someone would have tried NOT to save every piece of old rolling stock that came down the road. And every time I scheduled people to work on a car, that guy would show up and say we were going to do something else, like clean the yard, which did need cleaning, but when you ask volunteers to come out to paint equipment and then they are told to pick up junk, they tend not to come back. That guy never realized that. He only recognized he was the top dog and we should do what he wanted, when he wanted.
 
And Green! Go to Google images and type in NX23 caboose. Go down a few lines and you will see quite a few pictures of work being done on the CNJ caboose and one of your girl friend pushing the N5C (while Mike watches)! Go down a bit further and there you are standing on the N5C platform! Your ten seconds of fame!  
 
And JR, I posted over in the loco section about the Plymouth diesel at Wades. Still rusting away.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Housedavid1 Posted on: Nov 15th, 2015, 6:15pm
The Lakehurst Plymouth really needs a new home here at some point, otherwise there won’t be much left of it.  It has such a great southern NJ history, not only at Lakehurst with the Hindenburg, but also as part of the Mahalchik Fabulous Fifty Acres collection on Rt 206.  Its also something of a time capsule in that it is fairly complete, although in horrendous condition.    Really need a few guys to get together, buy it, and find a place to keep it where it can be worked on and preserved.
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Nov 17th, 2015, 10:37am
on Nov 14th, 2015, 2:25pm, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
About an hour. But since they are not a non profit, my mileage cannot be deducted at tax time. But if I find myself bored at any time that might change. Send me some contact information.
 
The CNJ caboose would have made a nice project. And yes, I agree with you the site looks good empty, but it would have been one good looking place if a certain someone would have tried NOT to save every piece of old rolling stock that came down the road. And every time I scheduled people to work on a car, that guy would show up and say we were going to do something else, like clean the yard, which did need cleaning, but when you ask volunteers to come out to paint equipment and then they are told to pick up junk, they tend not to come back. That guy never realized that. He only recognized he was the top dog and we should do what he wanted, when he wanted.
 
And Green! Go to Google images and type in NX23 caboose. Go down a few lines and you will see quite a few pictures of work being done on the CNJ caboose and one of your girl friend pushing the N5C (while Mike watches)! Go down a bit further and there you are standing on the N5C platform! Your ten seconds of fame!  
 
And JR, I posted over in the loco section about the Plymouth diesel at Wades. Still rusting away.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
Yeah,  I'm all over google image search if you look for the right things.  If I had to guess, when it comes to the NX23 in general, I was the only guy posting pictures and making noise about them on the internet in recent memory.  
 
What is really frustrating, is trying to research a specific piece of equipment, and getting back only pictures of my own model of it!  Thanks google....
 
 
In any event, its to bad there is nothing local.   I heard some discussion about working on cabooses down in Richland  neat the Patcong Model Railroad club,  which is still pretty far but not as bad as the alternatives.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 21st, 2015, 9:34am
That is the caboose housedavid1 (JR) was referring to. He did the outside. If memory serves me it is an N6 but don't hold me to it.
 
The mayor down their made a concerted effort to name brand his town around the CMSL going as far as bringing in both cabooses. He also had a vision of a short freight on tracks near the silo. When the stuff started to hit the fan at Pemberton, the mayor offered to take the 45 tonner and a car or two off of our hands. But he wanted the trust to move them. It does draw some crowds when the CMSL is running as well as when the model RR club is open.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 21st, 2015, 9:37am
on Nov 15th, 2015, 6:15pm, Housedavid1 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The Lakehurst Plymouth really needs a new home here at some point, otherwise there won’t be much left of it.  It has such a great southern NJ history, not only at Lakehurst with the Hindenburg, but also as part of the Mahalchik Fabulous Fifty Acres collection on Rt 206.  Its also something of a time capsule in that it is fairly complete, although in horrendous condition.    Really need a few guys to get together, buy it, and find a place to keep it where it can be worked on and preserved.  

 
I was behind your efforts to move that years ago but the same problems still exist; cost of the loco, cost to move it, and where to move it to. I agree that it would be nice to get it restored to operating condition. And the one down on the Eastern Shore was free to anybody that could move it. See, I am as bad ad other railfans in trying to save them all.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: BC_and_A_railway Posted on: Nov 22nd, 2015, 2:15pm
Ive heard rumors the Delaware Coast Line Critter was scrapped. I know the RS1 and a bunch of coaches are gone. I might get down there to confirm next month.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 23rd, 2015, 10:18am
That would be a shame but understandable. After all, we cannot save them all. And Murphy's Law has it that what a museum needs is on the other side of the world and the museums local to that particular piece of equipment have all of that type they need so it will go to scrap.
 
Karl and I went down to look at that one to ascertain the feasibility of moving it to the trust. While it was in bad shape, aren't they all in one way or another? After a few hours of chopping away all of the vegetation that overgrew the Plymouth, we determined that it wasn't in that bad of condition. It was driven to the spot where it rested. Again, the biggest problem was getting it out since the dinner train was blocking the rails to their yard and they had no plan on moving it. So getting a crane large enough to reach in about 75' and still lift a 40-45 ton locomotive was a challenge.
 
When we were down there, there was an RS-1 that was outside and in really bad shape. They were talking about scrapping it back then.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Housedavid1 Posted on: Nov 26th, 2015, 10:08am
I think what I have learned is that as an individual, its tough to save something like a locomotive or a piece rolling stock on your own, especially if its not close to home.  A small stable group of people is needed and a stable location as well.  What I might suggest is that perhaps a group of us get together at some point and see what we could adopt as to a needy project.  At least here in NJ there are a lot of good guys who have little use for museum politics and internal BS, but yet have interest and abilities that go untapped.  Several younger NJ guys have been heading to some PA operations and having a great time.  How can we keep that talent back here in NJ?  
 
As to equipment to adopt, the Lakehurst Plymouth comes to mind.  On RyPN there appears to be an RS1 here in NJ that needs a new home.  There’s equipment all over south Jersey that needs help.  There’s the McDonalds caboose that is now in a junk yard down near Pemberton as well (I really wonder if the Trust cabooses are hiding out there).  The Richland PRR caboose still needs to have the interior restored.  I know a few folks on this topic have a proven track record of getting things done, so how can we make use of that?  Again, in an informal, no BS kind of loose consortium of sorts.  Maybe we should get together at some point.  
 
Happy Thanksgiving!    
J.R.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 26th, 2015, 10:41am
Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
 
The Trust attempted to acquire the McDonalds caboose. The plan was to use it just like they did as a party facility. Sad to hear it got junked. But what kind of junk yard would take a caboose?
 
And I am down for saving a piece of railroad equipment. But to avoid the pitfalls of other organizations, the first thing on the list would have to be a place to put it. A rented or leased property is dangerous for all of the obvious reasons and examples we could all recite at the drop of a hat.
 
The Plymouth has a lot of historic things going for it. I seem to recall that it was one of a handful of gas electric locomotives built. And your photo of it sitting next to the Hindenberg is off the charts!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Nov 26th, 2015, 7:35pm
I might be wrong,  but the word I got from some people at trainshows and other RPM type meets, was that the McDonald's caboose (ex-NYC N7B I think)  Isn't slated for immediate disposal.  
 
I am told that it was taken with the intent to sell to an interested party.   No telling how long they will keep it around,  but it is my understanding that it won't be cut up "tomorrow", so to speak.  
 
I would be curious to see where it is.    I am told there was some difficulty finding Railroad museums that wanted  it due "unprototypical" modifications necessary to make it wheel-chair accessible.    
 
Posted by: JR May Posted on: Nov 26th, 2015, 8:27pm
That is true.  The caboose was bought by Allied Recycling Inc, the same company that handled the scrapping of the Trust locomotives.  They bought the locomotives, and the McDonalds caboose for that matter, fairly low in the hopes of selling them as complete units.  With no real interest in the locomotives, they were cut up, but the caboose was moved to their yard about the same time the other cabooses were moved by the Trust members.  
 
The caboose is for sale on ebay and has been quite some time now.  At least one end door on the caboose has been widened for wheel chair access which I see as a good thing for a tourist line.  Being a bay window caboose, moving it is a bit easier with out the height of the cupola.  The interior has been modified as a party room so it lacking the classic caboose feel.  Price I suspect is the issue.  
 
The ebay listing can be found at:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281766365139?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
I provided the following to Allied back when it was listed:
 
NY Central (NYC) as their #21044. It ended up as a Penn Central caboose and later as a Conrail caboose, always carrying the  
same #21044. Its a Class N-7B bay window caboose built in June 1963 at the NYC Despatch Shops up in East Rochester, NY.
 
J.R.
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 27th, 2015, 12:03pm
Sad that Allied didn't reach out on the locos. Like I stated before, there was an active road that had offered 60 grand for the 100 tonner. And I would bet that the 45 tonner would have found a home if advertised. But one of the operating stands still exists. It had leaking gaskets in the sir system s Karl took it home to rebuild it.  
 
And if and when the trust's cabooses show up, they will have trouble finding anyone to help their restoration effort unless there is a major shake up of the top people that led to the trust's eviction from the station.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: JR May Posted on: Nov 27th, 2015, 8:20pm
I had stayed pretty close to Allied and tracked his efforts to find a home for the 100 ton and 45 ton locomotives.   He had them on ebay for a bit, but at what I would consider very high prices.  Acquiring such beasts is the easy part, moving them is expensive if going any distance at all so there were no takers.   I had permission from Allied to take any parts off the 45 tonner that I might have wanted to see preserved, but I never had the chance to get down there and do it and was not sure what the parts may have cost me.  
 
I was impressed with how the tank car was moved.  One usually moves them in one piece with the usual height and weight issues (and expense), but the scapper (not Allied) cut the tank straps, lifted the tank off with a fork lift to a waiting trailer, then did the same with the frame.  He was done is 20 minutes.    Damn, I wish I had thought of that.  There was a short lived effort to buy the tank car from the scrapper after he had moved it but nothing came of it.
 
I owned the CNJ caboose for a few weeks, but gave up when I could not move it to where I had planned to take it.  The lack of brasses killed that effort as did other damage to the frame from the bathroom installation.  I did find a cooperative source for the brasses from a sister caboose in Howell (not Pine Creek), but it was just too much for me to do on my own.  I also looked at buying a trailer to make the caboose a bit easier to move around off its trucks.  There is a group out west that puts such cars on old trailers and  then keeps them mobile.  I suspect that works better out west than in NJ.  Karl ultimately bought the caboose, even after I offered to cover the purchase for him.  Very odd.  At least it was saved.  I had been offered the option of bringing it to what is now the Allentown & Auburn tourist railroad.  Distance from home was the issue there, but today several people from NJ volunteer out there and it sounds like a nice little operation.  That may have been a missed opportunity.  Again, though, the CNJ caboose was in rough shape and returning it to operation may not have been practical.  
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Nov 28th, 2015, 9:53am
Didn't you and I start to clean the CNJ caboose out? Or was that Karl? I do recall that we cleaned out the broken toilets and then started to remove the walls then Mike complained the HE wanted them to stay even though my conversation with him earlier they had been added when the caboose was used at a camp someplace. He said they were put in there for use on a work train.
 
Either way, I am glad it has been saved. As far as I know, the only cars saved were the N5c, and the CNJ caboose. The box car went back to the gut who donated it to the trust. The N6b chassis went to the guy who has the old ALCO switcher. Everything else was cut up. A lot of irreplaceable history was destroyed due to one guy's huge ego.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: JR May Posted on: Nov 29th, 2015, 2:09pm
I was in the CNJ hack once with you Ed and perhaps one other time during my short ownership period.    
 
Some place I had posted a summary of what happened with the equipment but off the top of my head it was something like this:
 
Items scrapped included:
 
1938 45 ton, G.E. side rod engine from Roebling - scrapped.  
1960 100 ton, G.E. Center Cab, diesel electric from Roebling - scrapped.  
1923 tank car, 10,000 gallon  - scrapped.
1918 gondola, from Roebling - scrapped.  
 
Sold for parts:
1904 flat car, arch-bar trucks, from Roebling - bought for parts by a museum down south.  
 
Sold and preserved:
1914 N6B Center Cupola PRR Caboose - sold and moved to BR&W
1938 L.V. 50 ton Hopper Car from Roebling - sold and moved to PA I think.  
1874 CNJ Center Cupola Caboose from Medford - sold to trust member and moved.
1942 N5C Pennsylvania RR Caboose from Conrail - sold to trust member and moved.  
1943 NX23 Caboose was built from a 1914 box car during WWII (75 were built) - sold to trust member and moved.    
 
Returned to person who donated the item:
1938 Rail bus 18’ long used by Provost Marshalls at Fort Dix - taken back by person who donated it.  
1954 Box Car - taken back by person who donated it.
 
All the rail and rail supplies was bought by the M&E Rwy.  
 
All in all, a majority of the stuff was saved.  The cabooses and artifacts in storage by Trust members has the potential for a nice display someplace at some point.  Its unfortunate that the items with the strongest south Jersey history, specifically the Roebling equipment, were the ones that were all lost.  I really didn't grasp that fact until I broke the list out as I have above.  
 
J.R.
 
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 1st, 2015, 11:55am
Sad that the mayor and council have no concept about history. Also sad is the one news item that made it to TV interviewed people at Wawa. They all said without exception that the stuff was an eyesore. I wonder how many of those were actually from the neighborhood and understood the significance of the equipment.
 
And I am sure that sometime the cabooses will show up somewhere but where exactly, I cannot fathom. Bet they are still holding out hope for Mt. Holly. In looking over that site after the last meeting I attended, there is room on the station side of the road for quite few cars. There was a second track next to the main line that looks to be long enough for two cars. And if allowed, there might be enough room to lay track for quite a few cars before you hit the creek. But as we all know, that area is probably a bigger security risk than Pemberton was.  
 
As long as we are speculating, there is still a possibility that the county might go through with the land swap and allow the Trust to go back  into the Pemberton station. But after the debacle, I am sure they would limit the amount of stuff allowed outside. Maybe the three cabooses and maybe a small locomotive, only!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: green_elite_cab Posted on: Dec 1st, 2015, 12:16pm
on Dec 1st, 2015, 11:55am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
And I am sure that sometime the cabooses will show up somewhere but where exactly, I cannot fathom. Bet they are still holding out hope for Mt. Holly. In looking over that site after the last meeting I attended, there is room on the station side of the road for quite few cars. There was a second track next to the main line that looks to be long enough for two cars. And if allowed, there might be enough room to lay track for quite a few cars before you hit the creek. But as we all know, that area is probably a bigger security risk than Pemberton was.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
I can tell you with certainty that there are homeless and others  who live in the PRR ruins  just east of the station.    I am not sure what structure it is down there (it is below track level, perhaps the water tower once stood there?)  but it would not be uncommon to see smoke from a camp fire rising up out of there.    
 
There are also a variety of "unofficial"  hangouts along the right-of way,  where people cleared the trees and brush and put things like benches and stuff in the woods, presumably  to remain hidden heading further along the yard west from Madison Avenue.  
 
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pemberton had the advantage of being "out there",   with woods to the rear, a creek to the south, and commercial areas/farms to the north.     I suppose people could walk up from the town,  but it was "out of the way" for most people.  
 
This would not be the case for Mount Holly,  as the trains would basically be in people's back yard,  and the railbed is a frequently used foot path.   The exposure would be greater,  and I suspect in order to keep things nice, there would need to be much  greater oversight and security.
Posted by: Mr._Ed Posted on: Dec 3rd, 2015, 11:40am
Chris you are correct. There is a structure below track level behind the Mt. Holly station and the day we walked the site, we saw that there is someone living in there. It is a pretty solid concrete structure about 6' x 6' if memory serves me. It had a door at one time but just a hole in the wall when we looked at it.
 
But with the current owners pretty solid on their asking price, I doubt the trust will be going in there any time soon. The heirs seem to think the place is worth more than the $95 K the owner wanted. He had no offers so the logical thing to do is raise the price. If they let their thoughts be known, I would bet they think the trust will find the money somewhere to pay their asking price. And all the while, the building continues to deteriorate making it even less valuable. There best bet would be to donate the property to the trust and take the write off on their taxes. You'd be surprised how much they could get as a refund with that move.
 
And maybe having the rolling stock visible from the homes isn't a bad thing. It might beef up security if people thought they might be seen vandalizing the equipment.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed
Posted by: Eddie M. Posted on: May 1st, 2016, 5:16pm
on Dec 3rd, 2015, 11:40am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Chris you are correct. There is a structure below track level behind the Mt. Holly station and the day we walked the site, we saw that there is someone living in there. It is a pretty solid concrete structure about 6' x 6' if memory serves me. It had a door at one time but just a hole in the wall when we looked at it.
 
But with the current owners pretty solid on their asking price, I doubt the trust will be going in there any time soon. The heirs seem to think the place is worth more than the $95 K the owner wanted. He had no offers so the logical thing to do is raise the price. If they let their thoughts be known, I would bet they think the trust will find the money somewhere to pay their asking price. And all the while, the building continues to deteriorate making it even less valuable. There best bet would be to donate the property to the trust and take the write off on their taxes. You'd be surprised how much they could get as a refund with that move.
 
And maybe having the rolling stock visible from the homes isn't a bad thing. It might beef up security if people thought they might be seen vandalizing the equipment.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
 
From what we all have witnessed here, is that common sense does not trump stupidity or short-sighted decisions...