Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Oct 17th, 2017, 3:49am
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


Pemberton Township Historic Trust
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Tourist Railroads and Museums
   Tourist Railroads and Museums
(Moderators: Two23, , CHESSIEMIKE)
   Pemberton Township Historic Trust
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: Pemberton Township Historic Trust  (Read 14032 times)
JR May

View Profile  

Posts: 11
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #460 on: Nov 26th, 2015, 10:08am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I think what I have learned is that as an individual, its tough to save something like a locomotive or a piece rolling stock on your own, especially if its not close to home.  A small stable group of people is needed and a stable location as well.  What I might suggest is that perhaps a group of us get together at some point and see what we could adopt as to a needy project.  At least here in NJ there are a lot of good guys who have little use for museum politics and internal BS, but yet have interest and abilities that go untapped.  Several younger NJ guys have been heading to some PA operations and having a great time.  How can we keep that talent back here in NJ?  
 
As to equipment to adopt, the Lakehurst Plymouth comes to mind.  On RyPN there appears to be an RS1 here in NJ that needs a new home.  There’s equipment all over south Jersey that needs help.  There’s the McDonalds caboose that is now in a junk yard down near Pemberton as well (I really wonder if the Trust cabooses are hiding out there).  The Richland PRR caboose still needs to have the interior restored.  I know a few folks on this topic have a proven track record of getting things done, so how can we make use of that?  Again, in an informal, no BS kind of loose consortium of sorts.  Maybe we should get together at some point.  
 
Happy Thanksgiving!    
J.R.


Logged
Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 304
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #461 on: Nov 26th, 2015, 10:41am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
 
The Trust attempted to acquire the McDonalds caboose. The plan was to use it just like they did as a party facility. Sad to hear it got junked. But what kind of junk yard would take a caboose?
 
And I am down for saving a piece of railroad equipment. But to avoid the pitfalls of other organizations, the first thing on the list would have to be a place to put it. A rented or leased property is dangerous for all of the obvious reasons and examples we could all recite at the drop of a hat.
 
The Plymouth has a lot of historic things going for it. I seem to recall that it was one of a handful of gas electric locomotives built. And your photo of it sitting next to the Hindenberg is off the charts!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #462 on: Nov 26th, 2015, 7:35pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I might be wrong,  but the word I got from some people at trainshows and other RPM type meets, was that the McDonald's caboose (ex-NYC N7B I think)  Isn't slated for immediate disposal.  
 
I am told that it was taken with the intent to sell to an interested party.   No telling how long they will keep it around,  but it is my understanding that it won't be cut up "tomorrow", so to speak.  
 
I would be curious to see where it is.    I am told there was some difficulty finding Railroad museums that wanted  it due "unprototypical" modifications necessary to make it wheel-chair accessible.    
 


Logged





JR May

View Profile  

Posts: 11
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #463 on: Nov 26th, 2015, 8:27pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

That is true.  The caboose was bought by Allied Recycling Inc, the same company that handled the scrapping of the Trust locomotives.  They bought the locomotives, and the McDonalds caboose for that matter, fairly low in the hopes of selling them as complete units.  With no real interest in the locomotives, they were cut up, but the caboose was moved to their yard about the same time the other cabooses were moved by the Trust members.  
 
The caboose is for sale on ebay and has been quite some time now.  At least one end door on the caboose has been widened for wheel chair access which I see as a good thing for a tourist line.  Being a bay window caboose, moving it is a bit easier with out the height of the cupola.  The interior has been modified as a party room so it lacking the classic caboose feel.  Price I suspect is the issue.  
 
The ebay listing can be found at:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281766365139?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
I provided the following to Allied back when it was listed:
 
NY Central (NYC) as their #21044. It ended up as a Penn Central caboose and later as a Conrail caboose, always carrying the  
same #21044. Its a Class N-7B bay window caboose built in June 1963 at the NYC Despatch Shops up in East Rochester, NY.
 
J.R.
 


Logged
Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 304
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #464 on: Nov 27th, 2015, 12:03pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Sad that Allied didn't reach out on the locos. Like I stated before, there was an active road that had offered 60 grand for the 100 tonner. And I would bet that the 45 tonner would have found a home if advertised. But one of the operating stands still exists. It had leaking gaskets in the sir system s Karl took it home to rebuild it.  
 
And if and when the trust's cabooses show up, they will have trouble finding anyone to help their restoration effort unless there is a major shake up of the top people that led to the trust's eviction from the station.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
JR May

View Profile  

Posts: 11
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #465 on: Nov 27th, 2015, 8:20pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I had stayed pretty close to Allied and tracked his efforts to find a home for the 100 ton and 45 ton locomotives.   He had them on ebay for a bit, but at what I would consider very high prices.  Acquiring such beasts is the easy part, moving them is expensive if going any distance at all so there were no takers.   I had permission from Allied to take any parts off the 45 tonner that I might have wanted to see preserved, but I never had the chance to get down there and do it and was not sure what the parts may have cost me.  
 
I was impressed with how the tank car was moved.  One usually moves them in one piece with the usual height and weight issues (and expense), but the scapper (not Allied) cut the tank straps, lifted the tank off with a fork lift to a waiting trailer, then did the same with the frame.  He was done is 20 minutes.    Damn, I wish I had thought of that.  There was a short lived effort to buy the tank car from the scrapper after he had moved it but nothing came of it.
 
I owned the CNJ caboose for a few weeks, but gave up when I could not move it to where I had planned to take it.  The lack of brasses killed that effort as did other damage to the frame from the bathroom installation.  I did find a cooperative source for the brasses from a sister caboose in Howell (not Pine Creek), but it was just too much for me to do on my own.  I also looked at buying a trailer to make the caboose a bit easier to move around off its trucks.  There is a group out west that puts such cars on old trailers and  then keeps them mobile.  I suspect that works better out west than in NJ.  Karl ultimately bought the caboose, even after I offered to cover the purchase for him.  Very odd.  At least it was saved.  I had been offered the option of bringing it to what is now the Allentown & Auburn tourist railroad.  Distance from home was the issue there, but today several people from NJ volunteer out there and it sounds like a nice little operation.  That may have been a missed opportunity.  Again, though, the CNJ caboose was in rough shape and returning it to operation may not have been practical.  


Logged
Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 304
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #466 on: Nov 28th, 2015, 9:53am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Didn't you and I start to clean the CNJ caboose out? Or was that Karl? I do recall that we cleaned out the broken toilets and then started to remove the walls then Mike complained the HE wanted them to stay even though my conversation with him earlier they had been added when the caboose was used at a camp someplace. He said they were put in there for use on a work train.
 
Either way, I am glad it has been saved. As far as I know, the only cars saved were the N5c, and the CNJ caboose. The box car went back to the gut who donated it to the trust. The N6b chassis went to the guy who has the old ALCO switcher. Everything else was cut up. A lot of irreplaceable history was destroyed due to one guy's huge ego.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
JR May

View Profile  

Posts: 11
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #467 on: Nov 29th, 2015, 2:09pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I was in the CNJ hack once with you Ed and perhaps one other time during my short ownership period.    
 
Some place I had posted a summary of what happened with the equipment but off the top of my head it was something like this:
 
Items scrapped included:
 
1938 45 ton, G.E. side rod engine from Roebling - scrapped.  
1960 100 ton, G.E. Center Cab, diesel electric from Roebling - scrapped.  
1923 tank car, 10,000 gallon  - scrapped.
1918 gondola, from Roebling - scrapped.  
 
Sold for parts:
1904 flat car, arch-bar trucks, from Roebling - bought for parts by a museum down south.  
 
Sold and preserved:
1914 N6B Center Cupola PRR Caboose - sold and moved to BR&W
1938 L.V. 50 ton Hopper Car from Roebling - sold and moved to PA I think.  
1874 CNJ Center Cupola Caboose from Medford - sold to trust member and moved.
1942 N5C Pennsylvania RR Caboose from Conrail - sold to trust member and moved.  
1943 NX23 Caboose was built from a 1914 box car during WWII (75 were built) - sold to trust member and moved.    
 
Returned to person who donated the item:
1938 Rail bus 18’ long used by Provost Marshalls at Fort Dix - taken back by person who donated it.  
1954 Box Car - taken back by person who donated it.
 
All the rail and rail supplies was bought by the M&E Rwy.  
 
All in all, a majority of the stuff was saved.  The cabooses and artifacts in storage by Trust members has the potential for a nice display someplace at some point.  Its unfortunate that the items with the strongest south Jersey history, specifically the Roebling equipment, were the ones that were all lost.  I really didn't grasp that fact until I broke the list out as I have above.  
 
J.R.
 


Logged
Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 304
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #468 on: Dec 1st, 2015, 11:55am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Sad that the mayor and council have no concept about history. Also sad is the one news item that made it to TV interviewed people at Wawa. They all said without exception that the stuff was an eyesore. I wonder how many of those were actually from the neighborhood and understood the significance of the equipment.
 
And I am sure that sometime the cabooses will show up somewhere but where exactly, I cannot fathom. Bet they are still holding out hope for Mt. Holly. In looking over that site after the last meeting I attended, there is room on the station side of the road for quite few cars. There was a second track next to the main line that looks to be long enough for two cars. And if allowed, there might be enough room to lay track for quite a few cars before you hit the creek. But as we all know, that area is probably a bigger security risk than Pemberton was.  
 
As long as we are speculating, there is still a possibility that the county might go through with the land swap and allow the Trust to go back  into the Pemberton station. But after the debacle, I am sure they would limit the amount of stuff allowed outside. Maybe the three cabooses and maybe a small locomotive, only!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #469 on: Dec 1st, 2015, 12:16pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 1st, 2015, 11:55am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)

 
And I am sure that sometime the cabooses will show up somewhere but where exactly, I cannot fathom. Bet they are still holding out hope for Mt. Holly. In looking over that site after the last meeting I attended, there is room on the station side of the road for quite few cars. There was a second track next to the main line that looks to be long enough for two cars. And if allowed, there might be enough room to lay track for quite a few cars before you hit the creek. But as we all know, that area is probably a bigger security risk than Pemberton was.  
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
I can tell you with certainty that there are homeless and others  who live in the PRR ruins  just east of the station.    I am not sure what structure it is down there (it is below track level, perhaps the water tower once stood there?)  but it would not be uncommon to see smoke from a camp fire rising up out of there.    
 
There are also a variety of "unofficial"  hangouts along the right-of way,  where people cleared the trees and brush and put things like benches and stuff in the woods, presumably  to remain hidden heading further along the yard west from Madison Avenue.  
 
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pemberton had the advantage of being "out there",   with woods to the rear, a creek to the south, and commercial areas/farms to the north.     I suppose people could walk up from the town,  but it was "out of the way" for most people.  
 
This would not be the case for Mount Holly,  as the trains would basically be in people's back yard,  and the railbed is a frequently used foot path.   The exposure would be greater,  and I suspect in order to keep things nice, there would need to be much  greater oversight and security.


Logged





Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 304
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #470 on: Dec 3rd, 2015, 11:40am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Chris you are correct. There is a structure below track level behind the Mt. Holly station and the day we walked the site, we saw that there is someone living in there. It is a pretty solid concrete structure about 6' x 6' if memory serves me. It had a door at one time but just a hole in the wall when we looked at it.
 
But with the current owners pretty solid on their asking price, I doubt the trust will be going in there any time soon. The heirs seem to think the place is worth more than the $95 K the owner wanted. He had no offers so the logical thing to do is raise the price. If they let their thoughts be known, I would bet they think the trust will find the money somewhere to pay their asking price. And all the while, the building continues to deteriorate making it even less valuable. There best bet would be to donate the property to the trust and take the write off on their taxes. You'd be surprised how much they could get as a refund with that move.
 
And maybe having the rolling stock visible from the homes isn't a bad thing. It might beef up security if people thought they might be seen vandalizing the equipment.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
Eddie M.
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 2027
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #471 on: May 1st, 2016, 5:16pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Dec 3rd, 2015, 11:40am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
Chris you are correct. There is a structure below track level behind the Mt. Holly station and the day we walked the site, we saw that there is someone living in there. It is a pretty solid concrete structure about 6' x 6' if memory serves me. It had a door at one time but just a hole in the wall when we looked at it.
 
But with the current owners pretty solid on their asking price, I doubt the trust will be going in there any time soon. The heirs seem to think the place is worth more than the $95 K the owner wanted. He had no offers so the logical thing to do is raise the price. If they let their thoughts be known, I would bet they think the trust will find the money somewhere to pay their asking price. And all the while, the building continues to deteriorate making it even less valuable. There best bet would be to donate the property to the trust and take the write off on their taxes. You'd be surprised how much they could get as a refund with that move.
 
And maybe having the rolling stock visible from the homes isn't a bad thing. It might beef up security if people thought they might be seen vandalizing the equipment.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
 
From what we all have witnessed here, is that common sense does not trump stupidity or short-sighted decisions...


Logged

Railroads are a weakness we all share..
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »