Railfan.net Home Railfan Photos ABPR Archives Staff Safari Photos Railfan Links

Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums Railfan.net Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please Sign In or Register. Dec 16th, 2017, 11:37am
Categories •  FastIndex •  LongIndex •  Help •  Search •  Members  •  Sign In •  Register


Pemberton Township Historic Trust
   Railfan.net Web Forums
   Tourist Railroads and Museums
   Tourist Railroads and Museums
(Moderators: Two23, , CHESSIEMIKE)
   Pemberton Township Historic Trust
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint
   Author  Topic: Pemberton Township Historic Trust  (Read 14068 times)
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #440 on: Jun 20th, 2013, 2:35am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Whats going to happen to equipment not listed, such as the N5C, NX23, and the CNJ Caboose?   The latter 2 are wood, are they just not desirable to anyone?
 
Chris


Logged





Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 309
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #441 on: Jun 23rd, 2013, 12:52pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

We now know what might happen to the CNJ caboose. There is still no interest in the N5c or the NX23 as far as I know. The N5c doesn't surprise me because there are so many of them out there, but I was surprised that the scrappers didn't want it. And the NX23 is only one of maybe 5 or 6 left in the country. And although the outside looks horrible, the inside is in great shape! The sad thing is the inside would have to be taken apart carefully to gain access to the outside. But it didn't garner any interest from the preservation community or the scrappers.
 
But the fat lady hasn't sung yet so there is still hope that we can save all of it and go to a friendly location that wants us.
 
Later!
Ed


« Last Edit: Jun 23rd, 2013, 12:54pm by Mr._Ed » Logged
Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 309
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #442 on: Oct 18th, 2013, 10:43am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

This will be my final post to this site since it is apparent that nobody reads these threads any longer.
 
The CNJ, N5C, N6B and NX23 cabooses have found owners. The Railbus also has been moved by it's new owner. The box car's new/old owner hasn't moved it yet. This after his complaining that the brakes weren't put back on. Good thing too since they would have had to been removed to move it, again.
 
The 100 ton Ge diesel was cut up on site as was the tank car and gondola. The hopper and N6b were moved. The flat car is still sitting. From what I've heard, a group bought it but only for it's trucks.
 
Good bye PTHT.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
CHESSIEMIKE
Moderator
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 4305
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #443 on: Oct 18th, 2013, 11:48am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Oct 18th, 2013, 10:43am, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
This will be my final post to this site since it is apparent that nobody reads these threads any longer.

Sorry to hear you feel this way. Even though I did not respond to every post, that does not mean it went unread. I'm sure there are others that have read them also. I, for one, am grateful to you for keeping us up to date on the happenings there.
CHESSIEMIKE


« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2013, 11:50am by CHESSIEMIKE » Logged


Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.
Eddie M.
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 2027
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #444 on: May 25th, 2014, 11:31am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

†What really bothers me is that Mike Tamn knew that this fight would be a tough and expensive one. † Mount Holly has a station for sale ($135,000. as I write) †The money wasted fight Mr. Patriarca now is lost. †However, I still believe Mt. Holly is a viable alternative to regroup. We have the direct line into Camden as well as a very dead yard (Or what's left of it.)  I have spoken to him, Karl and Garry more recently again, on this subject alone

« Last Edit: May 25th, 2014, 11:33am by Eddie M. » Logged

Railroads are a weakness we all share..
Eddie M.
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 2027
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #445 on: Mar 8th, 2015, 12:37pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

And so it appears most people could give 2 cents about this subject anymore.   The museum has been mostly dispersed, The mayor of Pemberton still rules with an "iron fist" and the Mount Holly train station lies in fallow awaiting someone to buy it.  The Mount Holly railroad yard is mostly gone and overgrown and barely a train makes it's way down this area anymore.  Yet, there is no movement among the ranks of the Historic Trust to move it's head quarters to a waiting Mount Holly...

Logged

Railroads are a weakness we all share..
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #446 on: Mar 8th, 2015, 9:57pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I still keep an ear out, †but now it seems no one from Pemberton posts anything at all. †
 
I haven't heard anything new in over a year. † †Out of the blue, †I did get a call from Mr. Tamn about helping with a railroad structure they had moved from the station, †but that was the last I'd heard. † † I still have some magazines they let me borrow. † †
 
 
As far as moving to Mount Holly goes, †I'm told there are a variety of complications with that move. † As I understand it, †Conrail still owns the yard. † †As for the station, †the current owners appeared to have been aware of the drama unfolding in Pemberton, †and apparently assumed they had the trust in a poor bargaining position regarding the price. † †
 
Besides, † Mount Holly isn't that much "nicer" than Pemberton. † Apparently, the busted windows in the N5C †were all caused while that caboose sat at Mount Holly for a day or two before the move to Pemberton. † It doesn't help that squatters have taken up shelter in that semi-abandoned transfer caboose,  and the old railroad  ruins immediately east of the station.  
 
I don't think Mount Holly really makes that great of a location in the long run.    
 


« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2015, 10:00pm by green_elite_cab » Logged





Eddie M.
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 2027
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #447 on: Mar 14th, 2015, 2:32pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Good to hear from you GCE.  The Mount Holly area/ yard as you know is not used.  The station is still for sale and the price has dropped even more.  I know the owner of the station and she would not mind selling it to an entity who will take care of it as well as pay the more than reasonable price for it.  The caboose is crappy now.  The volunteers would stabilize it in good time if everything went down in good order.  Talking to some of the volunteers, they have already told me a good amount of times that they could lay down some of the track to the station and across Madison with allowances from the Township.  Though Conrail/ Norfolk Southern owns the row, they do not make use of it and I am sure agreements would be worked out for shared use.  Especially if it were just weekends when no trains run at all.  All of this can be done with the right leadership and mindset in place.

Logged

Railroads are a weakness we all share..
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #448 on: Mar 16th, 2015, 7:35pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I still think the main problem is that  Mount Holly just  isn't a nice place.   I'm very confident that any rail equipment they brought down there would be vandalized and abused within a month of being there.     Indeed,   people were already breaking into the equipment at Pemberton,  but at least there it wasn't in the middle of town.    
 
 
Connecting with this issue  is the condition of the Trust's equipment.     I don't want to sound too critical of the trust,  but they rarely seemed to work on maintaining the equipment.    For years I'd ask about it,   and they'd always have some other project they wanted to do.  
 
There are two issues I have with this-
 
1.)  There is the Broken Window Theory.  
 
If you move those beat up cabooses,  out to Mount Holly,  they're gonna get vandalized, and no one is going to care, especially if they sit rusty, rotting and unmaintained.  
 
Again,  look at that transfer caboose already at Mount Holly.     THAT is what all those other cabooses will turn into if some effort isn't made to keep them looking good.  Go actually stand on the platform and look inside,  that thing is a roofless rotting hulk.  
 
The people squatting in the ruins just down hill from that station aren't going to think twice about squatting in an unguarded caboose.    
 
 
 
2.)  One of the reasons they had a bad relationship with the Pemberton in the first place is because they DID NOT make the trains look good, a CRITICAL mistake.    Everytime I went there,  I asked them when they planned to paint up some of the equipment or work on it.    
 
They always told me they didn't have the time or money,    but then somehow, they'd find time and money to buy a new locomotive,  a boxcar with a workshop,   a railbus,  and they found the money to haul an oil tank out of the woods,  paint that up, and put it on a concrete platform.
 
I was even told once that they wanted it all rusty on purpose because steel mill work does that to equipment...   but thats not something the public cares about or understands.  
 
NONE of this is a secret.  I'm generally supportive of the trust,  but they've given any opposition all the ammunition they need to shoot them down.    
 
The Bottom Line:
 
 
I wouldn't even DREAM of moving to a new location until some of those cabooses are presentable  (Windows in the N5C, maybe even a restored interior for tours,  end platforms and railings on the CNJ caboose).     At least then you could make the case that they are no longer planning on leaving rusting hulks around.  
 
No one is going to want decrepit trains in their town,  and they'll just be magnets for vandalism.     Putting in the work would atleast show  Mount Holly (or any other location) that they mean business.  
 
Of course,  the real solution is to just own the land privately.  


Logged





Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 309
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #449 on: Nov 10th, 2015, 3:27pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Hi guys! Long time since I have posted. Now that I have retired I have time to scan the net for interesting stuff so I looked up some old bookmarks and found this one, again.
 
I haven't had anything to do with the trust for over three or four years, I guess. The few e-mails I sent to members went unanswered so I guess I am on the $hit list.
 
Before I left the trust, and after the trust meeting, several of us walked the yard to see what we could make use of if we got access to it. No one is using that yard anymore because most of the rail bars and bolts are gone, most likely taken by the locals for spending money. They are gone out about a mile from Madison. And you cannot lay rail on top of the road and if you did, where would it go? The station side of the road only goes a half of a mile or so before it hits the old trestle which is long gone and the walking trail will not support train or rail.
 
And like was stated above, Mt. Holly is not a nice place to park anything much less a restored rail car or two. And I have no idea what is left and where it might be. The only thing I know is that the artifacts are in storage but you all know that. They had a fund raiser to get money for that storage.
 
We also looked at the transfer caboose, or what's left of it, and it had no roof so it would probably be better off scrapped.
 
The last thing that I heard about the station was that the owners, yes, more than one, want to sell it and the price hasn't changed much. Keep in mind this info is a few years old. Many years ago, the original owner had lowered the price to $98,000.00 and it still went unsold. Now I understand it is up around $138,000.00. A donation to the museum would allow them a hefty write off but they want money, not tax breaks. That is sad since around ten years ago the trust had applied for a grant and was given one but it was for real estate acquisition. But who knew they would need a new location back then. The grant wasn't enough to buy it but it would have put a really nice down payment on it.
 
Well, enough ramblings. Have a great Thanksgiving all!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #450 on: Nov 10th, 2015, 5:56pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Well,  you're the first I've heard from in a while.   I tried contacting some of the Pemberton People through the RYPN interchange, but no response.  
 
 
I'm not sure if its gone for a mile from Madison,  but you preach to the choir.  It would be way to easy to vandalize any trains parked there,   since  except for the end by Madison Avenue,  visibility is low from most publicly accessible places.    
 
I do wish I knew what happened to those cabooses,  but I never get more than "we have them safe some place."   I understand they want to protect them,   but  its not like I'm going to damage or vandalize equipment my friends and I put work into  saving!     Can't really steal a full sized caboose anyway,  though I suppose my girlfriend did managed to push that N5C a good distance....    
 
Sometimes, I wonder if they just told me they saved that CNJ caboose just because it would be a tad heart breaking to learn that it was smashed into splinters and dumped into a dumpster some place.  
 
What really sucks,  is now I have a regular job and free weekends,  and I could actually put some time into a project like that.   I kind of miss working with my hands,  now that I don't work in the diesel shop anymore and my job is all laboratory stuff.


Logged





Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 309
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #451 on: Nov 11th, 2015, 11:02am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

I remember your girlfriend pushing the car. It proves two things. The car was well lubricated and don't mess with her!  
 
The fine mayor of that township (sic) is still after the trust just to prove he is more powerful than Mike Tamn (which he is). And to that end, the location of the cars (however many there are) will remain a secret.  
 
I am on the outs since I was in contact with the guy from Allair, J.R., who was in contact with the mayor so they think I was feeding him secrets. Paranoia at it's finest. He was trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement between them. But Mike kept getting in the way. It was sad to see all of the blood sweat and tears get crushed and scrapped just to prove who had the biggest johnson. Mike was constantly poking Dave in the eye and daring him to do something. When the last diesel became available from Roebling, Mike told Dave we were bringing it in. Dave said no so Mike brought it in anyway. At the trustee meeting where we discussed bringing it in, we, the trustees, were told that the township had no say over what we did on site since there were no restrictions in our license (fancier term for a lease). So why did Mike find it necessary tell Dave we were getting another loco? I feel that if we just brought it in, Dave would have griped and then put a limit on what we could bring in which would have been OK and we would still be in business. And even when he said we had to limit the collection to 10 pieces, Mike said no, we can have as many as we want. Here is another kicker. There were people interested in the 100 tonner, so we could have sold that off and gotten some much needed funds and kept the township happy. But then it would look like we were capitulating to Dave and we couldn't do that.
 
So the bottom line is that I now have extra time on my hands and no railroad museums to put that time to good use. And I do not want to drive more than an hour to donate my time so Allair, Winchester Western and the folks up above Trenton are out.
 
Oh, well!
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
JR May

View Profile  

Posts: 11
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #452 on: Nov 14th, 2015, 12:24pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Ed:
Good to see you back on line.  Hope you are enjoying your retirement.  
 
You summarized the situation at Pemberton quite nicely.  Thereís a similar situation brewing up here, where again, its never a good idea to tick off the landlord.
 
Its amazing how the cabooses did simply disappear but at least they are safe (we assume) where ever that may be.  Iím sure there are more than a few people who would like to help out financially, yet there seems to be little interest in outsider as a source of funds.   Very strange.
 
Even as  I reached out to get brasses for the CNJ caboose trucks during the short stint that I owned it, people who had such things were not inclined to help out.  That was sad as well.    
 
In truth the Pemberton site was a great place for a museum with great visibility, plenty of property, a station already in place, but I have to admit though, and this does hurt, the site looks better today with out the stuff sitting there.   Perhaps some day, with some changes in people, a couple of the cabooses can once again sit next to the station, but in pristine condition.  
 
In the mean time, Richland Village could always use someone to take care of their NC5.  I helped the town get some paint on it and it looked pretty good, but the interior needs work.  Ed, whatís the distance like to Richland Village for you?
 
J.R.
 


Logged
Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 309
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #453 on: Nov 14th, 2015, 2:25pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

About an hour. But since they are not a non profit, my mileage cannot be deducted at tax time. But if I find myself bored at any time that might change. Send me some contact information.
 
The CNJ caboose would have made a nice project. And yes, I agree with you the site looks good empty, but it would have been one good looking place if a certain someone would have tried NOT to save every piece of old rolling stock that came down the road. And every time I scheduled people to work on a car, that guy would show up and say we were going to do something else, like clean the yard, which did need cleaning, but when you ask volunteers to come out to paint equipment and then they are told to pick up junk, they tend not to come back. That guy never realized that. He only recognized he was the top dog and we should do what he wanted, when he wanted.
 
And Green! Go to Google images and type in NX23 caboose. Go down a few lines and you will see quite a few pictures of work being done on the CNJ caboose and one of your girl friend pushing the N5C (while Mike watches)! Go down a bit further and there you are standing on the N5C platform! Your ten seconds of fame!  
 
And JR, I posted over in the loco section about the Plymouth diesel at Wades. Still rusting away.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
JR May

View Profile  

Posts: 11
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #454 on: Nov 15th, 2015, 6:15pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

The Lakehurst Plymouth really needs a new home here at some point, otherwise there wonít be much left of it.  It has such a great southern NJ history, not only at Lakehurst with the Hindenburg, but also as part of the Mahalchik Fabulous Fifty Acres collection on Rt 206.  Its also something of a time capsule in that it is fairly complete, although in horrendous condition.    Really need a few guys to get together, buy it, and find a place to keep it where it can be worked on and preserved.

Logged
green_elite_cab
Historian
Posts: 1212
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #455 on: Nov 17th, 2015, 10:37am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 14th, 2015, 2:25pm, Mr._Ed wrote:       (Click here for original message)
About an hour. But since they are not a non profit, my mileage cannot be deducted at tax time. But if I find myself bored at any time that might change. Send me some contact information.
 
The CNJ caboose would have made a nice project. And yes, I agree with you the site looks good empty, but it would have been one good looking place if a certain someone would have tried NOT to save every piece of old rolling stock that came down the road. And every time I scheduled people to work on a car, that guy would show up and say we were going to do something else, like clean the yard, which did need cleaning, but when you ask volunteers to come out to paint equipment and then they are told to pick up junk, they tend not to come back. That guy never realized that. He only recognized he was the top dog and we should do what he wanted, when he wanted.
 
And Green! Go to Google images and type in NX23 caboose. Go down a few lines and you will see quite a few pictures of work being done on the CNJ caboose and one of your girl friend pushing the N5C (while Mike watches)! Go down a bit further and there you are standing on the N5C platform! Your ten seconds of fame! †
 
And JR, I posted over in the loco section about the Plymouth diesel at Wades. Still rusting away.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed

 
Yeah,  I'm all over google image search if you look for the right things.  If I had to guess, when it comes to the NX23 in general, I was the only guy posting pictures and making noise about them on the internet in recent memory.  
 
What is really frustrating, is trying to research a specific piece of equipment, and getting back only pictures of my own model of it!  Thanks google....
 
 
In any event, its to bad there is nothing local.   I heard some discussion about working on cabooses down in Richland  neat the Patcong Model Railroad club,  which is still pretty far but not as bad as the alternatives.


Logged





Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 309
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #456 on: Nov 21st, 2015, 9:34am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

That is the caboose housedavid1 (JR) was referring to. He did the outside. If memory serves me it is an N6 but don't hold me to it.
 
The mayor down their made a concerted effort to name brand his town around the CMSL going as far as bringing in both cabooses. He also had a vision of a short freight on tracks near the silo. When the stuff started to hit the fan at Pemberton, the mayor offered to take the 45 tonner and a car or two off of our hands. But he wanted the trust to move them. It does draw some crowds when the CMSL is running as well as when the model RR club is open.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 309
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #457 on: Nov 21st, 2015, 9:37am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

on Nov 15th, 2015, 6:15pm, Housedavid1 wrote:       (Click here for original message)
The Lakehurst Plymouth really needs a new home here at some point, otherwise there wonít be much left of it. †It has such a great southern NJ history, not only at Lakehurst with the Hindenburg, but also as part of the Mahalchik Fabulous Fifty Acres collection on Rt 206. †Its also something of a time capsule in that it is fairly complete, although in horrendous condition. † †Really need a few guys to get together, buy it, and find a place to keep it where it can be worked on and preserved. †

 
I was behind your efforts to move that years ago but the same problems still exist; cost of the loco, cost to move it, and where to move it to. I agree that it would be nice to get it restored to operating condition. And the one down on the Eastern Shore was free to anybody that could move it. See, I am as bad ad other railfans in trying to save them all.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


Logged
BC_and_A_railway

View Profile   WWW  

Posts: 2091
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #458 on: Nov 22nd, 2015, 2:15pm »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

Ive heard rumors the Delaware Coast Line Critter was scrapped. I know the RS1 and a bunch of coaches are gone. I might get down there to confirm next month.


Logged

Regards,
Dayton Blair
| Flickr. |
Mr._Ed
Historian
View Profile  

Posts: 309
Re: Pemberton Township Historic Trust
 
« Reply #459 on: Nov 23rd, 2015, 10:18am »
Quick-Jump   Reply w/Quote   Modify

That would be a shame but understandable. After all, we cannot save them all. And Murphy's Law has it that what a museum needs is on the other side of the world and the museums local to that particular piece of equipment have all of that type they need so it will go to scrap.
 
Karl and I went down to look at that one to ascertain the feasibility of moving it to the trust. While it was in bad shape, aren't they all in one way or another? After a few hours of chopping away all of the vegetation that overgrew the Plymouth, we determined that it wasn't in that bad of condition. It was driven to the spot where it rested. Again, the biggest problem was getting it out since the dinner train was blocking the rails to their yard and they had no plan on moving it. So getting a crane large enough to reach in about 75' and still lift a 40-45 ton locomotive was a challenge.
 
When we were down there, there was an RS-1 that was outside and in really bad shape. They were talking about scrapping it back then.
 
Later!
Mr. Ed


« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2015, 10:20am by Mr._Ed » Logged
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24  ReplyReply     EMail TopicEMail Topic   PrintPrint

« Previous topic | Next topic »