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Found An Alco In Catskill NY
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toddsyr

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Found An Alco In Catskill NY
 
« on: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:42pm »
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   Hi folks.
 
 The other day, April 6th, 2008, I had to venture to St. Lawrence Cement in Catskill NY. This place is HUGE, they even load ships there. Anyhow, I found an old RS in their private yard along Route 9W.  The pics aren't from the best viewing spots but were the best I could get without stirring up too much trouble. They should be good enough for a person knowledgable about Alco's to identify though. Any information and/or history provided on this loco will be greatly appreciated. The loco's number for the cement plant is 5, but the number boards still retain the number 251. Thanks for any help.
 
Todd K. Stearns


« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:46pm by toddsyr » Logged

toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
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« Reply #1 on: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:43pm »
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#1

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Alco/1_Catskill_NY_Alco.jpg
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« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2008, 3:02pm by toddsyr » Logged

toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
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« Reply #2 on: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:45pm »
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#2

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« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2008, 3:01pm by toddsyr » Logged

toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
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« Reply #3 on: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:47pm »
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#3

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« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2008, 3:01pm by toddsyr » Logged

toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
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« Reply #4 on: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:48pm »
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#4

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« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:59pm by toddsyr » Logged

toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
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« Reply #5 on: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:49pm »
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#5

http://Forums.Railfan.net/Images/Alco/5_Catskill_NY_Alco.jpg
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« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:57pm by toddsyr » Logged

toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
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« Reply #6 on: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:50pm »
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#6

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« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:56pm by toddsyr » Logged

toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
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« Reply #7 on: Apr 8th, 2008, 2:53pm »
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« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2008, 7:56pm by toddsyr » Logged

scottychaos
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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
 
« Reply #8 on: Apr 9th, 2008, 9:05am »
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Nice pics!
Number 5 is an icon..she has ben there for ages, but is seldom seen!
 
There has been some discussion about this unit lately..(the last few years)
I thought she might be an ex-LV unit, that turned out to not be the case.
But the exact heritage of #5 is still unknown!
It is believed she might have originally been  Birmingham Southern RS3 #151,
but I dont think that has been conclusively proven yet.
from another forum:
 
 
Quote:
Ok, the Lehigh Valley theory has been conclusively shot-down.
she isnt LV 219.
 
That leaves Birmingham Southern RS3 #151 as the most likely contender to be Independent Cement #5.
 
There has been some confusion about the Birmingham Southern  Alco RS2/RS3 roster, but I believe this is the most accurate summary:
 
Alco RS2 Birmingham Southern 150 Phase 1 - 77431 - 11/49  
 
Alco RS3 Birmingham Southern 151 Phase 1a
Alco RS3 Birmingham Southern 152 Phase 1b - 79096 - 10/51  
Alco RS3 Birmingham Southern 153  
Alco RS3 Birmingham Southern 154  
 
That leaves Birmingham Southern RS3 #151 as the most likely contender for Independent Cement #5.  
 
Someone out in internet land has Birmingham Southern 151 listed as a Phase 1a RS3, not a phase III..(and Cement #5 is a Phase III)
but with all the conflicting info about the BS roster, I wouldnt be surprised if the "Phase 1a" info for BS 151 is incorrect.
 
Scot

 
thanks for the pics!
maybe this thread will lead to #5's true heritage.
 
Scot


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toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
 
« Reply #9 on: Apr 9th, 2008, 11:11am »
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You're welcome Scott and it was my pleasure. Just out of curiosity, how did the name Independent Cement come into this discussion? Is that a previous name for St. Lawrence Cement? Also, if the unit may have once been numbered 151, how does that mesh with the 251 number boards? Just curious. I know you have an Alco web site. If you would like to use any of the photos there, be my guest. If I get down there again, would it help if I can get a shot of a serial number? I'll have to get permission from the plant to do that but I'll try. Thanks.
 
Todd K. Stearns


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scottychaos
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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
 
« Reply #10 on: Apr 10th, 2008, 7:47am »
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Thanks Todd,
yes, if you could get a pic of the serial number, that would be a huge help!
 
The unit has been known as "Independant Cement #5" for ages..
decades perhaps.
apparently the name of the company changed at some point.
 
here is the whole thread where some of us tried to trace its heritage:
 
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37539
 
I thought the unit might be LV 219 because LV 219 later had road number 251 after she left the LV, and Independant cement #5 has #251 in her numberboards..
AND! the owner of the unit was heard to say "LV heritage"..
so could #5 be LV 219?
it turned out no..its not LV 219.
 
Then Alcoman said:
Quote:
Here is the correct history of the above Alco:  
5 RS-3 (78251 9/50) Ex-Alpha Portland Cement, Nee-Birmingham Southern # 251  
Currently Privately owned-Leased to Independent Cement.

 
but there are problems with that data too..
 
then there are all kinds of further discussion and data..I wont post more here, its easier to just read the thread linked above!
The "251" in the numberboards remains a mystery.
 
thanks,
Scot


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toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
 
« Reply #11 on: Apr 12th, 2008, 4:00pm »
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Scot said:
 
"yes, if you could get a pic of the serial number, that would be a huge help!"
 
I'll do my best if and when I get down there again. This trip was on a Sunday, so not alot of folks were around to ask permission. There were enough company employees on hand however to call the police for someone trespassing. getting permission is always the best bet and shouldn't be too hard to obtain if I'm polite about it.  
 
Todd K. Stearns


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toddsyr

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Re: Found An Alco In Catskill NY
 
« Reply #12 on: Jun 3rd, 2012, 3:19pm »
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Came across further info on this, including the serial number and history at:
 
http://www.berkshirescenicrailroad.org/aboutus_loco_bsrm5.php
 
"Berskhire Scenic Ry. 5
 
Built: American Locomotive Co., 1950
Serial No.: 78578
 
The latest addition to the Berskhire Scenic Railway roster is this example of an RS-3 from American Locomotive Company. Built in September 1950 for the Birmingham Southern as their 151, the locomotive later went through a renewal program where it received the Phase III hood doors and upgrades to the prime mover to make it a 244h engine. The Birmingham Southern was bought by U.S. Steel in late 1973. The 151 was renumbered briefly to 251 so it wouldn’t conflict with 100-series locomotives already owned by USS.
 
After BS took delivery of new EMD switchers, the 251 was sold to Alpha Portland Industries and was renumbered 5. It has been in continuous service at the three cement plants in the Alsen, New York, area until the last coal train was unloaded at the Holcim Plant in October 2011. The cement plants no longer mine and process limestone in Alsen, and the locomotive became surplus. The Berkshire Scenic Railway Museum took ownership on June 1, 2011.
 
This is a fairly rare example of an RS-3 in that it is completely original, including hardwood cab floors, all factory gauges and switches and other equipment. Don’t let the exterior appearance fool you. The outside is rough looking from the almost 40 years spent in the cement plant, but it is in very good mechanical shape and fully operational. It will go through a cosmetic restoration in the future once we raise sufficient funds. We hope to paint the engine as an example of a New Haven diesel of the same class, an appropriate choice since our museum is located along the former New Haven Berkshire Line!"
 
The pic and information on the aforementioned website makes it clear it's the same locomotive as the one I photogrphed and posted in this thread.
 
Todd K Stearns
 


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